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Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

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Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

Old 04-24-2004, 12:01 PM
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Super-Hornet
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Default Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

Hi all

Here are some of the pictures I took just now.
Configuration:
Main Motor = Himaxx HA2015-4100
Main Motor Controller = Castle Creations PHX-10
Tail Motor = Home Mod CDROM motor. Recoil to 10 Turns per pole.
Stock Magnet
Tail Blades = GWS EP-4025 but cut down to the lenght of EP-3020.
Tail Motor Controller = Castle Creations PHX-10
Special Feature: Tail can accept various GWS blades.


I know this chopper is not the prettiest in this forum so please don't complain.

Flight Time = Hover around 1 to 2 feet from ground for at 17 to 18 Minutes in Kokam 3 Cells 1500mAH.

Super-Hornet
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Old 04-24-2004, 06:10 PM
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MUGGA
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

Looks good. I was thinking of giving that try too. What gage wire did you use for 10 turn ?How is that raised tail boom working out for you?
Old 04-24-2004, 09:06 PM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

Hi Mugga

I not sure what is the gauge of the wire. I got nothing to measure it. To compare, it is about double the thickness of CN12-RXC wire. I tried using CN12-RXC wire and I can turn 19 rounds per pole but the speed is too slow (Remember I only use stock magnet). So, I use wire that is about double the thickness (From some transformer) and due to that, I can turn up to 10 Turns. Anything higher than that will have difficulty of winding the next pole or having problem putting back the magnet cap.

I'm being using Raised Tail Boom since Feb 2004 I think. So far so good. At least I do not required Tail Skids.

BTW...That Raised Tail Boom odd cutting is previously for CN12-RXC motor. That is why u see a funny/odd cut out for the Brushless motor shaft.

Super-Hornet
Old 04-25-2004, 08:59 AM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

thats one damned expensive lookin heli but i bet your havin fun with it. you must of put alot of time in it.

Benthehen
Old 04-25-2004, 10:44 AM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

Hi Benthehen

Yup. It is quite expensive...in fact, RC hobby is more expensive than computer game. Well, I just fed up with worn out brushes for tail motor. The last CN12-RXC i use only last me for 1 month. I go 100% in hope I can stop worrying about brushes problem and also to have high authority tail control.

Super-Hornet
Old 04-25-2004, 11:16 AM
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justin_92_92
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

very nice super hornet. If you could hear me clap I would.
what will the super hornet come up with next?
Some day I am going to try your innovated raised tail design. It looks cool and like you said...its safer.
Old 04-25-2004, 07:00 PM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

Hi superhornet, can you tell me how to make the cd rom tail motor? Or is there a brushless motor that we can use for tail out there? If there is, which one?

Geezzz... main motor AND tail motor with 2 PHX10? I'm currently grounding mine until my orders arrive here.
Old 04-26-2004, 07:54 AM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

Hi justin_92_92... thanks for the compliment. Happy to hear someone do like my design.


Hi Xperimental. My tail CDROM motor is just a normal CDROM motor. That CDROM motor was my 4th try. If u ask me, try get a small CDROM motor for tail for the weight purpose BUT getting too small CDROM motor has a difficulty or even not success in rewinding it.

Here is the story of my motor:
I tried 2 CDROM motor with 2mm shaft size but not successful. It keep on chattering without any spinning at all. I tried using wires with different turns and still not working. Maybe the size too small or the stock magnet too weak. I tried a bigger size CDROM motor (I think it is 3mm Shaft) and at first I manage to make it spin but speed too slow. I initially develop that CDROM motor for Main drive instead (To replace my heavy Himax HA2025-4200). I then uses more thicker wire and I was limited to 10 turns per pole due to the size of the stator. I use another CDROM motor cap (due to it has stronger magnet as compare to the one that I use for the stator). I tried it and DAMN it spin too fast. Then Himax HA2015-4100 together with PHX-10 arrive at LHS. I purchase it and then decided to use the CDROM motor for tail instead. Then few days ago my CN12-RXC died off due to brushess worn out. So, I decided to go ahead with 100% Brushless and never look back.

Super-Hornet
Old 04-26-2004, 09:25 AM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

SuperH...
What winding config are you doing it right now? star or delta? Is your tail direct drive or gear? Delta and Star wind make a big different... Since the prop is little... i think it would be better to have delta wind... obviously i don't think you need that much of torqe... so you want high rpm... so delta 17 round would be great... Im not saying i had a lot of experience with cd-rom motor... because there is a lot to it... but believe me.. i experience this stuff allright... lol... i got one of my brushless run so fast... that it slip of the motor mount.. and cut 3mm right through my thumb finger nail.... so high rpm... that the manget flew off... lol.... the shaft came lose... Delta wind are very hot.. but does give you power...
Are you using a 20mm stator for your tail? i think that is a ok size...
Are you running on original magnet??? not a good thing...
Old 04-26-2004, 12:04 PM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

Hi helisfreak

I running at 10 Turns per pole. I running at Star Config. Believe me... This motor IS DAMN FAST AND POWERFULL!!. When I use EP-5030, the thrust is so damn stronge and the current drawn can be as high as 4A to 5A at full power. The reason I cut down the EP-4025 to EP-3020 is to reduce the torque (Way too much torque till I really experiencing tail hunting at 50% gain on the gyro) and also to reduce the current drawn. I think my stock magnet (Actually from another model/brand CDROM motor cap) is strong enough. I do not want to spend more money on new magnet. Maybe when I decided to build another motor I will buy a new magnet.

The shaft I use is actually from IPS shaft. It is 30mm and it doesn't matter to me because I make use of the IPS shaft with screw track to nut tighten various types of GWS Blades. So far I like about EP-4025 blades.

Oh.. BTW, I use direct drive. As I said previously, I prefer direct drive for its fast response and small blades (I prefer small blades... looks more realistic)

Super-Hornet
Old 04-26-2004, 08:18 PM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

Hmm... i still don't quite understand how to make cdrom motors to work as tail motor, but i do have the complete instructions. Just haven't had the time to deeply converge upon it... wakakakak....

Anyway... stil the same question as before.... are there any brushless motor in the market that we can use as a tail motor? A himax or hacker maybe?
Old 04-26-2004, 09:39 PM
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helisfreak
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

Yes.. but u don't want to go do that.. they cost alot.. .i know that one brand make a duct fan micro brushless... which cost arround 100+ i believe.... so u don't want that....... it take 5 min to make a cd-rom motor.. .which work fine... I never really have the chance to compare my cd-rom motor to brand name motor...

This is why I will ask Superhornet now... so how is your standard size cd-rom motor compare to ur himax? which one is better?
Im in the progress of making some serious homemade brushless motor.. both inner and outrunner... making a motor for my giant ep concept sr... and my super nitro racing car.. converting it to ep brushless... ... Went and bought some old kitchen tool and got some pretty good size stator... arround 35mm... and 40mm long... hehehe...
Old 04-27-2004, 06:29 AM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

Based on my record, my success CDROM motor is only 2. 1st one too slow and chattering heavily upon startup and then scrap it and rebuild again. 2nd one successful, which is the one I now using for tail motor. If u ask me to compare with Himax motor (I have HA2025-4200 and HA2015-4100), my personal opinion will be:

Commercial motor is powerful and reliable.
Home Mod CDROM in the same diameter comparison, ok but much lighter than commercial.

If let say Himax HA2015-4100 weight is the same as CDROM motor (Lets assume it is), I will definitely use Himax...maybe my CDROM development skill still need to improve... as I said, so far my successful and workable CDROM motor is actually 1 piece only! (Slow one not counted)

Super-Hornet
Old 04-27-2004, 07:02 PM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

Hmmm... i see.... still haven't had the time to experiment of cdrom motors. If I still lived in Bandung(a lovely city), I could've gotten all the useless cd-rom I want for free. But here in Balikpapan, all oil and jungle haha. Can u use a himax 2015-xxx as tail motor? I'm planning to use 2015-4200 as my main motor. But it would be funny to use 2015-4200 motors for main and tail motor. Funny or stupid?
Old 04-27-2004, 07:53 PM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

NO.... himax 2015-4100... is 48 gram.. .u don't want to use that on tail... LOL....

If u hated ur tail motor so mucch.. get a hornet or something.. driven tail...

SuperHornet... Well... i never have a chance to see the hixmax run on my helicopter... but... When i first made my cd-rom motor.. .star wind.. I think that the himax are faster and better. But now i have rewind... my whooper.. double stator.. to a delta...that is where is rpm kick in... i increase the torqe by stacjking.. .and change winding to delta for high rpm... I have not try this yet... but i had tried a single stator..with delta wind.. and now it on my aerohawk... when i tested... holding it in my hand and full throttle.. the blade bend up at lease 1.25 inches... lol... .and i can feel the thrust. Back then with star wind... my esc and motor never get hot.. but now delta are hot wire... it did get a bit hot... but im pretty sure it stronger then the himax 4100... so if you can.. try the delta wind.. u will see the different....

I do not believe that u need a bigger motor for ur tail... i've have seen the smallest cd-rom motor... i think they're perfect for the tail.. it depend how u wind it.. and ur magnet... so if u want to reduce some weight... change it back to the small motor and change the magnet and rewind...
Old 04-27-2004, 08:04 PM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

hey guys......would anyone be willing to make a brushless motor for me...and if so...how much? I may be able to supply the cd rom motor...if it will work.
Old 04-28-2004, 06:23 PM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

Hi helisfreak and all

If you make your CDROM motor to be close to what Himaxx motor or any commerical B/L motor used, u sure get the same or close performance. If your total number of stator pole or total area of stator pole higher that Commercial one, off course u get better preformance than commercial one.

One thing u need to realise or anyone try to create CDROM motor is that at the end of day, which method (Home Mod or Commercial One) give u more conveniences. U can spend a lot of time and money by hunting CDROM motor, dissambled, rewinding, re-mounting and remagneting it and cross finger to hope it work or just buy commercial one and use it. Which method u prefer is all up to u.

U can increase the power of CDROM motor by changing its magnet and adding more stator but at the and of the day, the total weight maybe higher than commercial version.

If there is a B/L motor that is small and most importantly small, and can be use for tail motor, and u don't mind about the price (Plus one more B/L controller for tail), then go for it.

I know Delta and Star configuration differences. My main objective is long lasting and low current consumption. My CDROM motor is strong enough in Star, I will not going to change it to Delta. If I want, I will try building even lighter CDROM motor with lower current consumption for tail because I think I still got some CDROM motor left...Again.. I prefer lower current consumption so might still stick to Star also.

Super-Hornet
Old 04-29-2004, 11:55 AM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

COOOL, super-hornet whats the total weight of your heli now?
I just read an article on re-winding motors, very interesting. I might try and do something with an existing tail motor. Or a small brushless cd-rom motor, does a 3 1/2 inch floppy drive have a brushless?
Old 04-29-2004, 06:05 PM
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Default RE: Full Brushless (100%) Dragonfly - Version 1.0

Hi quaker1

I do not know the weight. I thinking of weighting it soon using a Postal Auto Teller machine.

The weight of the tail motor is either equal or lighter that CN12-RXC with heatsink (Feel and weight using hands only). My chopper now is much much lighter than before.

Oh.. Floppy Disk Drive comes with 2 Brushless motor. One is for the spindle motor. That one is huge but powerful. I believe there are ppl use it for replacing the whole helicopter main motor plus the main gear. The other motor is very small but it look more like a stepper motor to me. It has 4 wire o/p. It could brushless motor or it could be stepper. If you open up, u will see it uses 2 round coil of wire instead.

Super-Hornet

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