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is it possible to fly 3d WITHOUT collective pitch?

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is it possible to fly 3d WITHOUT collective pitch?

Old 07-29-2005, 03:15 AM
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corey19981
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Default is it possible to fly 3d WITHOUT collective pitch?

if it is, how do I get it upside down?

also, how does collective pitch work, and what does it let you do?
when flying upside down, are the blades spinning backwards, or forwards as you would if hovering the right way up. I don't see how a helicopter can be upside down with the blades spinning clockwise (forwards). how come it doesn't give thrust UPWARDS and send the helicopter downwards?
Old 07-29-2005, 03:56 AM
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lorents
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Default RE: is it possible to fly 3d WITHOUT collective pitch?

Collective pitch lets you vary the angle of the main blades so that they have more or less lift.

When you can vary the collective pitch you can have the head rotating at a constant speed and use the pitch to control if the helicopter ascends or descends. By pitching the blades downwards (negative pitch) you can fly inverted.

You cant fly 3d, or even do some mild acrobatics without collective pitch.

Hope this made any sense...

Lorents
Old 07-29-2005, 04:09 AM
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corey19981
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Default RE: is it possible to fly 3d WITHOUT collective pitch?

I found that extremely helpful. thankyou.

so that means that you can have the blades at say, 1500rpm, and you can move up and down even with the same speed, by altering the blade angle. is that right? when flying upside down, how can the blades possibly provide downthrust when they are inverted??
Old 07-29-2005, 04:22 AM
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lorents
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Default RE: is it possible to fly 3d WITHOUT collective pitch?

That is right. It is just like holding your hand outside the car window while driving - by turning the palm of your hand upwards your arm gets lifted upwards - and turning it downwards will push your arm down.

When your helicopter is upside down you can pitch the blades so that the trust is in the other direction of that you would use when you fly normally. It is like sitting upside down in your car and turning the palm of your hand downwards - the arm would go upwards

Lorents

Old 07-29-2005, 04:42 AM
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corey19981
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Default RE: is it possible to fly 3d WITHOUT collective pitch?

oh yes! now why didn't I think of that??[:-] I have an ikarus piccolo. if I wanted to have collective pitch, can you buy it as a separate package? say I had collective pitch, if I wanted to invert it, how do I do it? from the videos I've seen. it seems as if you move backwards as fast as possible, causing the tail boom to swing downward, and then is that it? is it harder to hover upside down than the correct way up?

How good would you say you have to get before it is time to move on to collective pitch? watch the videos of me flying. would you say I am ready?
Old 07-29-2005, 05:20 AM
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lorents
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Default RE: is it possible to fly 3d WITHOUT collective pitch?

Not bad! The piccolo isnt the easiest heli to fly, especially not indoors It should be no problem for you to fly a collective pitch heli - I think you will find it easier to fly

You can actually convert your piccolo to a collective pitch, but you have to change a lot of parts (head, blades and motor). If you have a 4-channel piccboard you would have to upgrade that one too to get at least one more channel for the collective servo. The headspeed on a collective is much higher than the headspeed you are running now, so it can be a bit more scary to fly indoors

It is easy to flip the helicopter to get inverted - the problems start when you are inverted because then all your stick movements would have to be reversed. It takes time to learn this - teaching this in a simulator before trying it out on your heli will save you a LOT of money .

Lorents
Old 07-29-2005, 08:28 AM
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GroundMagnet
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Default RE: is it possible to fly 3d WITHOUT collective pitch?

I wouldn’t even suggests inverted flying until you can hover all 4 orientations for a whole battery pack and be able to fly the thing FF and FFF.
Old 07-29-2005, 02:14 PM
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bdavison
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Default RE: is it possible to fly 3d WITHOUT collective pitch?

You cant do 3D type aerobatics with a fixed pitch helicopter, because it wont stay inverted. It will do just like you said and "blow" itself into the ground.
You can however do some basic aerobatics with a fixed pitch helicopter like anti-rotation "stall" turns, and even loops.

Since the fixed pitch helicopter cant stay inverted, you have to do a loop the correct way or it will come down very fast. First you get LOTS of altitude. Then you get high forward airspeed, and pull back on cyclic. The nose will raise up. As it goes over the top, pull off all the throttle, and as it comes around the backside of the loop, start feeding in throttle again. This takes some practice to get it right.

With a collective pitch helicopter, you start the loop with forward airspeed, pull back on the cyclic, the nose will raise up into the loop, as it comes over the top, you are feeding in reverse collective (negative pitch) so that the heli is now blowing air up to keep it inverted, as it comes over the backside of the loop, you transistion from feeding in negative collective (negative pitch) to positive collective (positive pitch) so that the heli returns to blowing air downwards.

You can even do flips. Which is basically a loop with no forward airspeed. You can actually start from a hover, and flip the heli upside down. The really good pilots can do this where the heli wont move up or down, or forwards or backwards. It will just rotate around itself.

The hard part isnt steering the helicopter, the difficult part is timing your collective transitions and the amount of collective you are using.

This is definatly not something for a beginner to try. Learn the basics first. You need to be comfortable in any direction hover, and in any direction forward flight before even thinking about attempting any of the above.

Old 07-30-2005, 02:28 AM
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corey19981
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Default RE: is it possible to fly 3d WITHOUT collective pitch?

i can do nose in pretty well. also I can have the copter hovering, and do a little spin.
Old 07-30-2005, 09:09 AM
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Default RE: is it possible to fly 3d WITHOUT collective pitch?

Corey do your self a favor learn all 4 orientation of hovering not just pretty well but well I mean that when you can hover a whole pack with out moving much on all 4. These basics will help you so much down the road that it should be a law. I know it’s hard to see it now but most pilot will agree.

Well = If you need to think about which way to move the stick your not there yet and it probably to late
Old 07-31-2005, 07:05 AM
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corey19981
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Default RE: is it possible to fly 3d WITHOUT collective pitch?

no I don't think about where to move the stick. when flying, it is like catching a ball. you don't 'think' about where to put your hand and when to grab, you just do it.

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