Morpheus56692

One more thing guys, will the stock Dragonfly 36 reciever/ESC that is currently running the 12volt 630mah Ni-Hyd battery, run on a 730mah Li-Po battery with no mods? And anyone with any suggestions on good/important upgrades please feel free to enlighten me. It flies good except it fish tails alot and makes it difficult to fly. Keep in mind that I will have this thing doing 3d or atleast hover inverted.[>:]

Thanx,

Chris

D1HUNTER

Cheatscalc
Got a 36, my first helicopter and should have gotten a different one from what I've been reading. My won't lift off like the others I've read about. Will get the motor and esc. Which pinnon should I get. 11t, 13t, 15t. I tried the link, but got a blank page. Please name brand and what battery I should get.
Thank you

brokenlaser

Thank you Cheatscalc,
New to helli's, and really needed this explanation on tuning the tail and head. Just got the 36 today, and went through your thread with the TX on, everything zero, and out of the box I would be shocked if it flew. Also if my understanding is correct with helli's, the CG should be directly under the swash plate, it's not even close with out of the box items. Anyways, thanks for the directions, they are a real help to those of us who are heli challenged. lol

stilly

l have run a 11.1v 1800 lipo pack with stock motor(brushed) and it makes a world of difference...the stock battery is just to weak for this heli---but with a good lipo battery l can hover it around in my living no problem for around 5-7 minutes ----but a brushless motor is the way to go ----longer flight time and way more power(align 420)scary power l would say

thecheatscalc

Thanks for your support!


Ok, li-polys won't make a difference unless the C rating is above 10, but, I'll say they're one of the best investments for this heli!

Now, the align420LF is a GREAT brushless motor, the best of it's kind for this helicopter. If you put a large enough pinnion, it'll probably strip every gear with ease, which, isn't a good thing but it shows this motor has some power.

The align needs to have a 11T or 13T pinnion on it, any larger and you're probably putting too much stress on the frame, but most likely not the motor. I can fly with my heli at 700g and that motor is barely warm after a full li-poly pack.

Also, make sure your brushless esc is on LOW to MED freq settings as the High setting is making the motor too powerful. Soft start is great, but, once it's spinning put the stick at 1/3 throttle, and wait, once the motor is at this postition jump the throttle up a notch or two and the motor should speed up to that instantly. This means the soft acceleration (it'll slow down slow as well while this is engaged) has turned off and it's time to lift off. Don't worry though, when you've set down and put thottle to off it'll start up slow again and you've just got to repeat the process.
Brake should always be off, I've crashed with it on, and well, It did the death jig on the ground as the motor dutifly slowed down at the set pace. this heli has AUTOROTATION so you DON'T need the brake, I only suggest it if your heli doesn't have that.

heh there, that's my quick review of the align420LF, the BEST brushless motor for med sized electric micros.

swashplate

Hazaa!
/bump

thecheatscalc

heh thanks, I'm glad you bumped it, I'm sure there's some who need to see this, though, I don't have anything to add, yet, still gotta order the parts, then I'll get to some more info on setting up the heli.

thinx2much

Thanks for all the tips, guys. I wanted to see if you had any tips that are specific to the equipment I'm about to use. I have a Blade CP also, which I fly quite a bit (LiPos changed my life....) The 36 was my first, but had bad: Gyro, 2 servos, and apparently the receiver also. I got tired of arguing with the ebay supplier. After drooling over the Trex SE model daily, I decided to replace all of the electronics and set up the 36 like I would my future Trex, then switch the components over once I'm worthy. I stole the components list from a pro pilot's set up in RCHeli magazine, except for the 2.4ghz radio.

I have collected the following brand spankin' new gear and plan to assemble it over xmas: Fatuba GY-401 heading lock gyro & digital tail servo; Align aluminum tail servo mount to handle the bigger servo; Align 430L brushless and 35 amp ESC w/Governor; Spektrum DX6 2.4 ghz transmitter, receiver, and s75 micro servos; E-Flie 1800 mah 3 cell LiPo.[8D]

I'd really prefer not to burn anything up through ignorance. Any help would be appreciated.

kg4izw

hey i got another setup question for ya,
my #36 came with a brushless motor and esc that says walkera on it. I have tried yesterday to install it , and have a couple of questions.
On the ESC there is one set of wires that go to the battery, 3 wires that go to the motor, one flat clip that goes to the receiver, but there is another mini connector that has 2 prongs that stick out. Where does it go? Maybe the other end of the mini clip that comes out of the receiver?
How do i put the pinion gears on the motor? I know superglue is not the answer. But will blue locktite do the job?
Do I need to use the pinion with 11 teeth or 9?


I also got a battery question for ya. If I move to the 2200mah 11.1v with 12c, will the additional weight defeat my new added power? or will it lift off better?
thanks paulb.

thecheatscalc

2200mAh is the recommended size, go for it, especally since it's got a good discharge rate (I use one of the wimpy 2200mAh blue ones and it works just fine, on my align that is)

I'm sorry to say, but, I've NEVER heard of a clip like that, mine doesn't have it, just attach everything but that and try it out. It should work just fine, and that MAY just MIGHT be there so you can use that instead of the servo connector on a 4ch Rx and just plug that into the slot where the old motor went and use that for the speed control, but really I have no clue. Be CAREFUL with that walkera, they're known and prone to odd problems, if it doesn't work send it back and go for the align ESC and motor.

kg4izw

How do i put the pinion gears on the motor? I know superglue is not the answer. But will blue locktite do the job?
Do I need to use the pinion with 11 teeth or 9?

E_Heli

Here's what you need for the pinion, the CA will melt when it gets hot.

I thinks most people use 10T pinion on the 3200Kv Walkera BL motor.

http://www.grandrc.com/inc/sdetail/1935

kg4izw

thank you for your response. I have only a 9 tooth and an 11 tooth. Which would you recommend?

snappa

heres a sticky one for you, I have fixed many problems on my #39 from overtight tail belt to a battery not fitting however blade tracking is just a pig!!!!!! I have no problem setting up my caliber 30 blades but half a turn on the #39 puts the blades on a oposite track ie red was high with half a turn blue was high?????? cant change any less than half a turn lol also have tried different blades,,,,there is alot of slop in the linkages though,,,also setting that dam pzt and plt....I thought pzt was pitch zero trim and plt was pitch length trim>>>

thecheatscalc

hmm, the pinnion choice is kinda hard... I'm not sure if the 9 would give enough head speed while the 10 may be an overload (it shouldn't though) I'd say go for the larger, I use a 11 T pinnion on my align420LF and it handles it really easy, though I'm wondering what a 13 or 15 T pinnion would do...


UPDATE!

the next section, dissasembly is coming soon! hopefully in 2 days (if grandrc's shipping holds true for 3 days every time) I'll be getting my new main shafts, booms, blades, and tail shaft in this means I will explain in detail the easiest way to remove a main shaft, the tension of the belt, gear mesh, and basicly how you would go about taking your heli apart.

opjose

Like the other, this thread will become HUGE in a very short period of time with questions and answers.

To controll it, we really need a general thread for the heli, followed by subthreads listing specific topics...

Ugh...

As a side note.

The opening posts talks about the need to "center" the tail rotor.

Most Newbies will not realize that "centered" means that the blade pitch angles are supposed to be inclined when the servo is centered.

A clarification would circumvent a bunch of questions.

opjose

Yes, I do it all the time.

But you do want to be careful.

If something comes loose and hits you in the eye....

Often I hold the heli above my head, or I will clamp it to a bench.

opjose

Contrary to posts to the contrary

The Walkera is SUPPOSED to fly out of the box.

The reality is that usually the included batteries have been sitting in a warehouse for far too long or have a bad cell or two.

Barring that and a truely bad TX or RX, it will fly with the stock setup.... but it requires tuning.

(Most RX, gyro, servo advancing failures, but sadly not all, can be traced to glitching or RF problems...)

On a new heli, the owner must setup, fix or eliminate..

Vibration
RX Glitching
Rotor head pitch angle & throttle curve adjustment
Ball links and linkage lengths
Paddles and flybar balance
Blade balance
etc.

Once you do this it will fly VERY well with the stock motor, although I would also recommend a battery change ASAP at the very least.

I fly my stock setup helis with higher (and brand new) mAh rated batteries with a slightly higher voltage. I have six Walkera's now, plus several others.

This still puts everything within it's rated voltage range while providing a bit more power without the initial expense of an ESC and brushless, although the latter are eminently better.

Having to get it to fly with the stock setup will eliminate the problems which if not tuned will hold over to the Brushless/ESC setup.

Since the Brushless setup generates more power, often a lot of the fine tuning is overlooked by newbies, but it should still be done.

Great thread, but it's gonna get BIG!

opjose

There is the battery clip, the three wires which go to the motor, the receiver plug, and some of the non-Walkera ESC's have a small plug into which you can insert (or remove) a "Berg" jumper. This jumper tells the ESC if it is operating with 2 or 3 cell LiPo's.

You'll have to look at the original docs as the Walkera "ActiYators" (does yours say this?) normally does not include the jumper.


NO NEITHER!

The brass pinion gear is supposed to be held on by friction on the Walkera Brushless motors. Were you sent something else?

You can use a soldering iron (I use a light propane torch) to heat the pinion gear so that it expands and while it is very hot, you slide it over the shaft. Once it cools it contracts to hold.

Assuming you are already running an 11.1v LiPo, changing to a higher capacity will not increase the voltage to the motor.
The ESC controls the final motor voltage.

With a heavier higher capacity battery, the motor and heli can run longer, but you pay a slight associated "cost" in terms of deminished performance because of the weight.

In some cases higher lift blades can completely offset this...

thecheatscalc

Hey, great job, I can see you're going to be helping me a bit, unfortunatly I haven't had the time to sit down and start writing, I'm writing a novel (high shool project) and it's due next week.... so, I haven't had much time to get to this.

If you see that they advertize "it's flown three times before it reaches your house!!!", the only flying it's done it when they throw the boxes into the UPS trucks and such. (or EMS in this case)

BATTERIES

there are two batterys usually included with a walkera Dragonfly 36. One is the stock ni-mh battery, rated at 650mAh. with a brushless motor this has the power to lift the helicopter for around just 5 minutes. [X(] these batteries are MUCH too under amped for this application, and the voltage will dip under load. This causes them to be of no use with an Electronic Speed Control for a brushless motor (ESC) as the circutry will cause the helicopter to turn off for safety reasons. DO NOT fully discharge, and, do NOT let each cell go under .8v or, for this, 8v, the polarities on the batteries may reverse, screwing the battery and rendering it useless.

Li-polymer This is a putty based lithium formula similar to li-ion. each cell must never drop below 3.2v, and must never be charged above 4.2v, or, you risk swelling (destroys capacity of cell) and/or explosion. (these things make BIG bangs and lots of flame, lithum contains a good bit of energy, that's why we use it) though lightweight, it contains around 3.5x the power for weight than a ni-mh battery. The walkera battery (no name purple/white/blue with purple sticker) battery has a LOW amperage rating, and isn't useful for this application. I'd suggest buying a quality (though really expensive) battery. one of the said to be premere batteries, Max amps, have the highest rating (15C constant, 20C constant doesn't exist yet) without over rating the batteries. you WILL see a difference with these batteries. So far (i'm testing one on my 36 right now) it's done great, no flight times with the align420LF yet, but, it's looking good.

cadini

Hi
need some help with setting up my align esc,
I think i understand the instuctions about the beeps and to use the throttle stick to adjust the setting.
The problem im having is it does not seem to go into the setup mode when i switch on. It sounds like its just telling me how its setup but not letting me change anything.
Can anyone tell me what im doing wrong.

Thanks
Justin

thecheatscalc

turn on your Tx, then put it to max, turn on your Rx, it *should* go to setup mode. I'm not very good with that part, I programmed mine, and now I can't figure out how to do it again, sorry, perhaps someone else knows and wouldn't mind posting here.

cadini

Tried that but it just keeps running through the current settings.
The settings its telling me are ,Brake disabled,Mid timing,Med discharge and normal aeroplane.

Do you know wether the normal aeroplane mode will matter until i can figure out how to get it changed, As it seems to spin up ok and all the other settings are ok!

Justin

thecheatscalc

well, aeroplane and heli is just hard (aero) and soft (heli) start funtions. if you prespin the blades you'll be ok, otherwise you've got to be careful for your gears.

rcrolauk

Hello guys! Really great forum, I've just bought a #36. Had already ordered it when I read all the bad things about the Walkera #36, so I was very doubtful about the quality with this heli. Had the same problems with no lift, but I've managed getting it in the air with some fine tuning now. Guess the battery is bad (as you guys have mentioned). I have the stock brush motor, but I am going to buy a brushless motor, new gyro and li-poly batteries. Is this the one I shouldn't buy?? The same company that sold me the Walkera, also offer this type of batteries...wonder if it's from Walkera as well?