Need help from experience
 

I am new to helicopters and am looking at microhelis, I have used simulators frequently but never used one. I have been doing my hw and first places I looked were all Japanese sites. www.hobbyjapan2000.com has emailed me frequently and has been answering questions but I feel they are trying not to commit to anything. I first looked at fixed pitch helis but said why waste my time I want to actually fly but I was looking at spending around 200 bucks. I would love a Trex, zoom 400, hornet, or one of those but they are just way too expensive, I understand these fly way better than others but I am new still and don't see spending that much on a new heli. so I narrowed down my choices,
Esky honey bee 2
Walkera 400 no 35
and maybe the no 22

Plain and simple for the price you can't beat what you get. 6 channel radios alone start at 100 bucks, so eventually I can use parts. I am leaning toward the Esky because it comes stock with much more, like lithiums and it seems aftermarket parts are more available here in America. After reading on the walkera 35 it seems the tail on it is just plain better than the esky.

I've read much more complaints on the 35 but at the same time I get the fealing it flies better.

What I'm looking for is real experiences and opionions of which is better and why.

Cheap places to buy it, hopefully in America.

Reasons why or why not to buy from hobbyjapan2000.com, they seem to have nice customer support so far but I haven't ordered, I know people say don't order from them but why. Is it just a delay in shipping? Did anyone have good experiences with them?

And lastly if you have a heli similar in price and know it is just plain better let me know. I'd like to do some 3d flying but I'm not stupid I know I'm not going to jump into these right away so I'm not going to drop 500-900 bucks on a new heli.

Thanks in advance for all the help.

RE: Need help from experience
 

Hi OneSillyHatch.

Why the name choice, btw?

Anyway, I started the same way as you... I'm probably a few weeks and two helicopters ahead.

I started with the Walkera 22a for the same reasons as you mention. Its presently in pieces awaiting spare parts.... It's
a complex helicopter and not for beginners like me !.... I started damaging the main blades (which will take more of a
bashing if you put a thin strip of sticky tape the full length of the leading edge before you damage them). Later I progressed
to more complex forms of damage, such as bent axles and shafts....

This took a few days.

I then realised that parts were hard to come by. 22a parts more so. And they TX won't work with simulators.

So I bought a Walkera 4 to learn on.

The Walkera 4 is even more unstable than the 22a, but unlike the 22a, it's more forgiving....

I've flown it into cupboards, the oven and a few trees. It does the dead chicken dance daily.
I'm onto the 9th tail rotor, but they are cheap and locally available and I've yet to destroy the main rotor.
(And you can glue two broken tail rotors together to get going again).

I'm now a mile ahead of where I was, and the damage cost is less..... And the 4channel controller works with
FMS which I use daily for practice.

If I got to start again, I'd either buy the 4 first, then the 22, or I'd order both at the same time...

The 4 works better with the 22 battery anyway :)

Oh, and buy a decent charger with ANY Walkera product.

David

RE: Need help from experience
 

Hi ons,
I have the same dilemma as you. I have read on these forums that hobbyjapan200 has terrible service. I found the e-sky 5005 from www.balsapr.com for $80 and am considering it. It has ccpm capability . From what ive read the electronics that come with the rtfs are a little on the weak side. If your new to the rc hobby and are planning to stay for a while I advise getting a good computer radio like the Hitec optic 6 or futaba 7c. Ive also heard that the Walkeras are kinda hit or miss and aren't that great of quality. (anybody correct me if Im wrong)

RE: Need help from experience
 

Speaking form personal experience, and strictly about the Honey Bee 2, I won't recommend it to a complete beginner (I can fly helis on sim pretty well but still can't fly this thing for squat). Others may disagree, but this is my personal opinion from my epxerience. The fit and finish leave much to be desired although parts availability seem to be pretty good.

While the Rx in the 4 in 1 board is 6 channels, the Tx as far as I can tell is only 4 (there's a 3D switch to change the throttle curve to enable inverted flight).

There is as far as I know, no direct fit (meaning it was intentionally designed strictly for the HB2) upgrades. Everything that is listed as an upgrade for this heli are usually generic ones that can be made to fit on most micro helis. I recently purchased an alum. CNC swashplate (since the stock swash separates easily) for a Hummingbird but found that the stock Anti-Rotation arm will not fit it so I will need to fabricate or buy a new one now.

My 2 pence. Good luck and welcome to the hobby! =)

RE: Need help from experience
 

The honey bee 2's tx ,I think, is a very limited 6ch. The board mixes the 5ch to the throttle to enable cp.

RE: Need help from experience
 

Thanks for the info. In response the name was stolen kinda, my friend had a mustang notchback, and his name was onesillynotch, I am building a civic hatchback so I went with onesillyhatch, haha.

I'm kinda thick headed and don't want to fus with 4 channel non cp heli's. I understand the difficulty in learning and do not plan on rushing, I expect to crash and break stuff that's why I only want to pay 200 bucks or less. My real concern is learning heli's, how to adjust them to make them run correctly, I have enough experience to know all rc things need to be tinkered with to run best. I live at forums, and read till my eyes start bleeding haha.

Turbo read around people have swapped blades and parts from various heli's. I think I read something about switching the servo around and the aluminum swash fits...not sure but check it out.

Professor I've broke down and went to ebay, there is supposedly a seller out of Indiana for the HB2 for 159, at least this way the people are in america and you can run the authorities all over them if something goes wrong. I know stock components stink on almost all rtr's but they usually work pretty well or well enough to learn and upgrade as you go but they give a strong starting point and don't break the bank, this way you can save money for blades and stuff when you break them. Everyone says go spend all your money on a radio, I say why??? noone adds that part? I've run crap radio's and good radio's and they all did the same thing, but with heli's you just don't want your signal to be lost, thats the only thing I can think of and I read the optic 6 can cut out in flight.... hmmm 28 dollar radio or 150 dollar radio that does the same??? (I sound like a jerk here, I really didn't mean to, I'm just sarcastic, I don't mean to be mean though, sorry if I come off the wrong way you can't show expressions when typing) I think the gyro is the thing that you want to invest in, that will make flying life way easier, at least I think sooo... but I'm a newbie,haha.

Ooops, the walkera comes with foam blades right? I'm hesitant about these, I think I trust the balsa much better on the esky, I want something weak so the rest of my copter survives by not that weak...Another reason I'm leaning toward the esky is the lithium polymer not the NIMH, with a crappy charger, thanks for that imput. Don't worry I'll top your broken part list.

Thanks soo much for the responses, keep them coming, I'm about to buy tonight, haha, my kitchen will never look the same.

RE: Need help from experience
 

Yeah I read that thread about "switching the servos" to make the swash fit but that was for a FP not the CP (which I have). I'll try to get you a pic of what I'm talking about (anti-rotation arm).

If I had to do it all over again, I would never get a HB2 as a first heli (or ever for that matter). I totally hear you about not wanting to spend the money as you're new to the hobby and all but really, if you can, stock up for a slightly better heli (like the Hummingbird 2 CP). This isn't the same concept as ok, you're buying a newly licensed teenage driver their first car so get a junker and let them learn. With this hobby, having something that you can actually control so you can learn as opposed to learning how to even control it is totally different. I know for sure in experienced hands, this heli is actually not too bad as I had brought my HB2 down to a hobby shop in Brooklyn and witnessed someone personally fly it. I however have had no such luck despite making leaps and bounds on my Reflex XTR.

Think of it this way, you want to spend less to save more for crashes, let me throw this at you then, how about saving more to spend less on crashes? =)

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash this heli as I still haven't given up hope on mine but just giving you an honest appraisal from personal experience from one newbie to another. If you have someone you know who is experienced with heli flying and can help you tweak it and show you how to fly then I suppose that's another thing but if you think you're pretty much going to be on your own with the majority of support coming only through forums then I'd recommend you think twice about getting the HB2. If you're not dissauded still, I think there was a thread about someone using longer Shogun blades which helped offset a lot of the sway to the left when the HB2 is first airborne (a problem which I continually battle). I'd highly recommending following up on that thread. I'm still waiting for a replacement swash since the top portion on the one I got was binding and I had to send it back so I haven't tried the Shogun blades yet but that will probably be my next upgrade.

Whatever the outcome, good luck and hope to hear about your flying adventures soon! =)

RE: Need help from experience
 

Beware of HobbyJapan 2000.. I purchased a HoneyBee 2 from them about a month ago and it took a month to get to me because it was backordered (even though the website said "In Stock") and they never responded to my emails enquiring about it. Ive read alot of people who have had no problems with them, but my experience wasnt very good.

Nonetheless, I wouldnt recommend the HoneyBee 2 for a complete newbie, or really any CP heli for that matter. Start with a FP heli, learn on it, crash it, figure out how to fix it, and fly it more... Sim time is important and I recommend that to everyone but actually flying a real heli with the added "Pucker Factor" makes it a whole different animal.

TurboBB hit the nail right on the head as far as the setup & tweaking of the heli goes. If you're still set on buying the HoneyBee 2 then do a search on RCGROUPS for Aerohawk's Esky thread (there are 2 of them)..alot of experience is covered in setups and trials/tribulations that hopefully you can avoid.


TurboBB: sorry to hear you're not doing well with yours. Mine flew great right out of the box with just a normal setup. ARF heli's usually wont fly perfect right out of the box..they require some basic tweaks at the start before you ever plug in the battery and ongoing "massaging" as you keep flying it...good luck and keep messing around with it..im sure you'll get it!

Regards
Darrell

RE: Need help from experience
 

I hear ya turbo, now here is my next question, the Walkera can switch modes from FP to CP, would this be a better buy then, starting out running FP, than as I progress switching to collective pitch. I have also read that the FP's are actually harder to fly? Why do people say this? I was thinking the complications came more from incorrect setups ie pitches on their blades. Can the Honey Bee 2 switch to collective pitch, I thought they had the 3d switch on top, to enable the channel or cp mode? Please correct me if I am wrong...

I saw something about people complaining about a left drift of the honey bee, does anyone know why it does this?

Turbo I agree with buying the better heli to fly better and not crash, but I know I'm going to crash once or twice and would rather screw up a honey bee than a shogun, its kinda like you wanting to screw up your fp rather than your honey bee.

I have a hobby shop close by to me and they used to fly corded trainers in there all the time, they are pretty good with the copters, as with another guy that had a different shop by me, so I would be far from without assistance.

Once again thank you for all this information if anything light shines on what I need to do, the question is whether I do it or not.

Anyone have a real positive experience out of the box as newbie?

Keep them coming...

RE: Need help from experience
 

The fp helis are less stable than cp but because lower rotor speed and less mechanics are much less likely to break in a crash. Also the fp parts are mostly cheaper. The cp are harder to setup.

RE: Need help from experience
 

Goto www.balsapr.com

They have the Esky CCPM heli for $80 bucks.
If your looking for cheap, you can get the radio for $39 bucks, and a 4-in-1 box for about $60 bucks.

Dont let the price of the Esky throw you off. Its a nice heli for the money. I got mine this morning. Its not shogun quality, Id say its about like a piccolo pro though.

RE: Need help from experience
 

Oh yeah, the tethered one you saw was probably the tethered XRB. They also make a RC version of the XRB. Its a great beginners heli, its fixed pitch. Really easy to fly. Ive got one and I like it alot.

RE: Need help from experience
 

Hello,

thought i'd add my two cents worth.

I got into these micro heli's 2 months ago and i have caught the bug.

I have Colco thunderbird, (2) Walkera (Dragonfly) FP, Walkera 22D, Honey Bee 2, Walkera 35 (0n the way) and seriously eyeballing either ECO or Shogun....either way, it's gotta be electric.

I run 2cell and 3 cell Lipo's on all the heli's. A word of warning for the heli's with separate tail motor, 2 cell lipo's kills the motors after about 15 Flights, 3 cells usually after 1-2 flights. Maybe it's the duration (10-15mins constant hovering). I'm getting really tired of changing out these tail motors, but can do it blindfolded with one arm tied behind my back now.

Newbies should definitely learn on 4 channel, as others have quoted, it's cheaper to fix and tweak. CP's are good for agressive or 3d flying....something that newbies shouldn't do until they learn to hover...unless they have fat wallets to buy replacement parts.

Some of the reasons they (FP) are a little more difficult to fly are that
1. they do have lower main blade head speeds and therefore impart less gyroscopic effect to help with stability.
2. they depend on motor speed/blade speed to go up and down vs. pitch changes on the CP so changing/maintaining elevation is a little more difficult but not impossibly hard to master.
3. they come with/out head stiffeners to keep the main blades parallel when in flight. What this means is that as the main blades produce lift, it causes them to bend upwards (V pattern when viewing the spinning main blades from the side) This causes the pendulum, "Pitching" motion that everyone talks about with forward flight. The good news is that the replacement heads for the Walkera heli's that i bought from HobbyJapan comes with a nice fix in the form of a metal reinforcement plate included that fits under the blade head....it's really a good solution and dramatically stiffened the heads. The HB2 that i have has a very robust head design and didn't need the head stiffener.
4. they are generally lighter than their CP counterparts when comparing apples to apples and are more affected by external forces like wind and Ground effect.

Anyways, my suggestion is to buy FP hover/fix/tweak/experiment with it for a couple of months or more until you feel very comfortable doing basic manuevers all the while banking the money saved buying cheaper parts so that when you are ready, you can graduate to a CP model.

Last thought...i've received all my heli's except HB2 with the TX set up in some weird format i call "Mode X". Throttle and left/right cyclic on left stick, Tail and forward/backwards cyclic on right stick....It's easy enough to fix but what in the world were they thinking?
For Colco, i just swapped the pots, for the Walkera's i just swapped the 2 inside connectors.

Good luck and happy hovering!!!

RE: Need help from experience
 

Man everyone says get FP, I was so set on CP too. I'm going to just sit down on my real flight G2 all weekend and see how I feel, If I crash too much or am hovering really poorly I'll go FP, If not I think I can avoid a lot of crashes by setting up my CP correctly in the beginning. I will seek help on this. Draymun I'm not sure why you keep burning tail motors out, are they 180 can? If they have brushes sometimes you have to break the motors in, so the brushes sit on the communtators otherwise you get arching which can damage things. I have run too much current before and I broke the wires around my commutator. Open up a motor and let me know what is wrong with them, you can actually repair them.

-Rob

RE: Need help from experience
 

Yeah. It's called Mode 1, and it's used in Europe and Asia/Pacific (ie here). When I visited the Auckland nitro club they we're all trying to make me fly mode 1, but mode 2 makes more sense to me in that I think that the axies are naturally grouped together that way in my brain.

Anyway, just an FYI the arguments from the guy instructing me are:

1) People learning using mode 2 often have trouble accidentally mixing fore/aft cyclic with left/right cyclic or vice versa.

2) If you've flown planes then mode 1 is more how most planes are set up: throttle/aileron, elevator/rudder.

So anyway, after spending maybe an hour in the air with the instructor I now seem to be able to fly mode 1 _and_ mode two, although I prefer mode 2 on my heli's.

RE: Need help from experience
 

Hey. Okay, I made the mistake of buying a mini dragonfly off [link=http://www.trademe.co.nz/]trademe[/link] (a local auction site, think ebay but with nicer style-sheets) and the previous owner had bashed it around a bit and stuff and it took me quite a while and a lot of parts to get it (and keep it) flight worthy. So after a lot of reading forums, replacing parts, getting friends with soldering skills to visit and tweaking I mastered hovering it (even though the gyro in the 3-in-1 no longer seemed to function) in only a weekend and the next weekend started getting forward flight sorted until I discovered (the hard way) that the Tx range is only about 15 meters! Someone had broken the Tx antenna off, and then just soldered it back in. So after spending $200 ($NZ ofcourse) on the heli another $150 in parts and things and several weeks making the damn thing work again this was the final straw! The next day I ordered a "T-Rex 450X Explosive Brushless Combo" and an Eclipse 7 from helihobby (much to my girlfriend's chagrin) which according to the track and trace left customs this morning and should be arriving today.

So, the moral of the story is this: cheap heli's don't really save you any money. You _will_ spend just as much again keeping the thing in the air, and even then if you get a FP heli you will reach the limits of it's capabilities after a very short time. It's very hard to stay motivated and not just chuck it in when the buzz of your first hover is immediately destroyed by a gyro glitch.


Jamesotron's cheap helicopter rules:

1) If you _must_ buy a FP heli, get one that can be upgraded to CP.

2) If you _must_ _must_ but an FP heli, get a good quality well-known brand, spares will be more available and so will other fliers with experience with the model.

3) If you must buy an RTF heli then make sure you get good quality radio gear.

4) Avoid buying an "indoor" sized heli unless you live in a downtown appartment and there is absolutely nowhere else for you to fly it (or you're planning on joining an indoor flight club). You will reach the limits of your capabilities much faster (that's _if_ it isn't eaten by furnature first) - you can't do a stall turn in your lounge, there just isn't enough room.

5) The total cost of ownership of a cheap micro is not less than that of a better quality model (like a shogun or trex).

Peace.

RE: Need help from experience
 

Ok here is one for you, lets see who can beat this, I am not at home so I don't have the part numbers or the places, but the cheapest I've pieced a trex together for was 515 dollars for everything, using separates, I didn't understand the 3 in ones and 4 in ones that well at the time, it seemed to me they couldn't handle the current for the 400 size motors, so I went with separates, mostly GWS stuff. Can someone give me parts, locations and prices and piece the cheapest of the showgun, trex, etc. together. This is sort of a challenge. If you can get the price down to like 400 or just under 400 I will buy one of those, without a blink. This price includes lithium polymer battery and charger. I mean RTF price, not ARF. I think this will benefit everyone in the long run. We can all piece together the cheapest stuff (that works well) and others can get into the hobby at lower cost. Remember the more you buy from one place the cheaper the shipping, so if every piece is from a new location it may end up being more...Large places like Towerhobby may charge a couple bucks more but you save 5 on shipping if you know what I mean. Just to give you an idea, I used 15 dollar servos, and the cheap 6 channel futaba radio that Tower sells for 99 bucks. I forget what gyro (gws I think) reciever, and esc I used but I picked a 1500mah 3 cell li poly batter, and I used a dc field charger that I was going to splice and ac to dc converter onto.


Jamesotron- I asked earlier, why the expensive radio gear??

RE: Need help from experience
 

Ok here is one for you, lets see who can beat this, I am not at home so I don't have the part numbers or the places, but the cheapest I've pieced a trex together for was 515 dollars for everything, using separates, I didn't understand the 3 in ones and 4 in ones that well at the time, it seemed to me they couldn't handle the current for the 400 size motors, so I went with separates, mostly GWS stuff. Can someone give me parts, locations and prices and piece the cheapest of the showgun, trex, etc. together. This is sort of a challenge. If you can get the price down to like 400 or just under 400 I will buy one of those, without a blink. This price includes lithium polymer battery and charger. I mean RTF price, not ARF. I think this will benefit everyone in the long run. We can all piece together the cheapest stuff (that works well) and others can get into the hobby at lower cost. Remember the more you buy from one place the cheaper the shipping, so if every piece is from a new location it may end up being more...Large places like Towerhobby may charge a couple bucks more but you save 5 on shipping if you know what I mean. Just to give you an idea, I used 15 dollar servos, and the cheap 6 channel futaba radio that Tower sells for 99 bucks. I forget what gyro (gws I think) reciever, and esc I used but I picked a 1500mah 3 cell li poly batter, and I used a dc field charger that I was going to splice and ac to dc converter onto.


Jamesotron- I asked earlier, why the expensive radio gear??

RE: Need help from experience
 

Beware. Buying the cheaper parts will bite you. For example you can save heaps of money on a GWS PG-03 gyro, but it's a rate gyro, meaning that you're going to have to a) have a radio that can handle revo mixing and b) spend hours tweaking the revo settings - this, especially, is a lot to ask of a beginner. A lower quality ESC will much likely be noisier, and thus generate more interference for your lower quality receiver.... you get the point. If you want to build a trex cheap then I would still get a good quality rx, gyro and esc. You can easily upgrade servo's and the motor later, and you don't need "explosive performance" as a beginner.

As far as I'm aware the trex doesn't come in either ARTF of RTF. I just spent about 15 hours very carefully building mine from hundreds of little tiny pieces. I'm actually quite proud of myself, it's like the hardest lego challenge I've ever undertaken :)

There's something to be said for building it from parts though. I now understand how the heli works a lot better than I would have had it just turned up ready to fly. That said, I think the shogun/zoom/zap comes out of the box ARTF - you might want to look at that instead.

1) 7 model memory. I can use the same transmitter for my dragonfly and any future models without having to invest in several different controllers.
2) Less glitches. Period.
3) Higher resale value if I decide that heli's (or any other kind of RC model this radio can do) are not for me.
4) Features. eg. If I want to upgrade to the carbon fibre frame and 120 degree CCPM then this radio can handle it.

I weighed it up, and basically I decided that more money spent up front amounts to much less money spent later on. This is the exact same reasoning for getting a trex and not a mini dragonfly.

Over at helihobby.com they have a "build your own shogun" calculator, which you might want to play with. My girlfriend doesn't know it yet, but a shogun is next on my shopping list :)

RE: Need help from experience
 

Have bought from HobbyJapan a couple of times, good service, fast service no prob..

RE: Need help from experience
 

I messed with that before I can get the price down to like 520 or so with the 99 dollar transmitter. You mentioned revo mixing, can you elaborate on what that is, I probably know, just not familiar with the term. I just can't spend 5 or 600 bucks on a heli. I'd love to but at that price I'm getting a gas heli.

Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't you rather put your money into the gyro, rather than the transmitter, if I don't want to run 7 channels I have no need for crazy radios, plus you never get your money back in RC's, everyone knows that. I would think that gyro makes all the difference in flying. What is heading lock? is that like stablizing, or preventing drift?

Next question for anyone, if I bought an esky honey bee 2 with a 4 in 1 can I bypass the gyro and run a separate gyro, one that I bought, I mean run the plug elsewhere instead of to the 4 in 1. Or would I have to fake it out by sending current to it? I'm not familiar with these electronics but I'd like to upgrade the gyro if possible, I think that would stablize the heli quite a bit.

Thanks everyone for taking the time and answering all my questions

RE: Need help from experience
 

Fixed Pitch

Advantages:
Lower head speed is more forgiving, and can help reduce damage in a crash.
Parts are generally cheaper.
Less moving parts means less difficulty for new flyers to set-up properly
Normally come in ARF or RTF kits.
Parts readily available.
Blades are cheaper(sometimes)
Has stability not found in CP helis due to coning of rotor blades.

Disadvantages:
Fixed pitch, means no inverted flight.
Affected more by ground effect than CP heli's
Require constant throttle adjustment to hover.
Coning of rotor disk means wind can be troublesome.
Changes in thrust require more time due to heli having to change rotor RPM.


Collective Pitch
Advantages:
Ability to adjust thrust without changing RPM.
Ability to perform inverted flight
Less affected by ground effect
Flat rotor disk means more agility.
Higher head speed provides more gyroscopic stability.
Thrust changes are almost instantaneous due to rotor already being at RPM.

Disadvantages:
Cannot just cut throttle in emergencies. Even if you set it down, head speed maintains same RPM's when in full collective mode.
More expensive parts.
Complicated rotor head, can be difficult to trim correctly.
High head speed results in more damage in a crash.
Blades can be expensive.
Normally require extensive building skills to assemble.


See everyone thinks of things in terms of FP vs CP....but they forget X-rotation heli's. Honestly these X-rotation heli's like the XRB are and should be in a class by themselves.

X-rotation heli's are FP helis that are extremely stable, especially for a beginner. You would not believe how easy these things are until you actually try one. A X-rotation heli vs CP is a totally different ballgame. The two are so VASTLY different, you really cant compare them.

Simple fact of the matter is that you can learn on any type of heli.

X-rotation heli you can learn on with little to no outside assistance from anyone.
FP single rotor heli, you can learn on, but will probably need some outside assistance.
CP single rotor heli, you can learn on, but will definatly need some outside assistance.

RE: Need help from experience
 

onesillyhatch,
I think you can get an optics 6 w/o spectra for less then $150. And you are basically stuck with 6 channel rx since I've never seem a 5 ch 1 yet.
If you buy HH gyro you won't need revo mixing unless you also use dual rate. If you use GWS rate gyro, you'll need it. Revo mixing is done at the TX or you need a revo board so might as well get it on the TX.

You can bypass the gyro in esky 4-in-1 but that also means u're bypassing the mixer and tail esc so you'll need replacement for those too.

HH = heading hold = heading lock

RE: Need help from experience
 

Is revo mixing just like trim? Getting it to fly straight?

Thanks

RE: Need help from experience
 

Revo mix is like a curve on the mix to keep the tail still while accelerating the rotor. When the rotor spin up the tail has to compensate for it to keep the nose straight. The revo mix allows you to fine tune the tail to keep the heli from spinning at different throttle positions. I still haven't got my hummingbird to stay straight on takeoff. I would love a headlocking gyro. It eliminates the need for revo by feeding compensation when the nose tries to turn.