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Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

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Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Old 09-27-2010, 02:06 AM
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guapoman2000
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

I did run up the provided Freewing 64mm EDF unit and liked the way it spooled up and the power it had thereby, I went ahead and decided to install it and worked on the "DUCT" some more by providing foam standoffs at the bottom of the FUSE as shown.








Old 09-27-2010, 02:14 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

I got some funny stares from those at the local Publix where Shopping is a Pleasure because I went hunting for the Perfect size, shape and Length Bottle Watter Bottle to make my actual "DUCTING" between the Frontal Bulk head and the Frontal end of the Fan Unit. I am glad I decided to go to Publix because they had all kinds of selections and the best was Publix brand 1.5 Liter long Bottle which was a little larger then 3 inch diameter! A few pictures showing the two bottles with the hard plastic BUT ends still attached:






Notice the Castle Creations Thunderbird 54-AMP ESC is inside the DUCT TUBE!!!


Old 09-27-2010, 02:29 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Now for the Electronics, I did use the Provided FreeWing 45-AMP ESC just to setup all servos and nose Wheel Steering during the earlier modifications and setups but, I found the FreeWing unit very very heavy so, I decided to perform a Weigh-In session to see exactly how heavy the provided FreeWing ESC was against my own Castle Creations Thunderbird 54-AMP and the differences was significant!

FreeWing 45-AMP ESC (A whopper of 2 3/8 oz) [:'(]


Here is Castle Creations ThunderBird 54-AMP ESC with Dimension Engineering ParkBEC and Harness and Connectors (Just a mere 2 5/8 oz)




For those curious on the weight of the Castle Creations ESC by itself:


For those curious on the weight for the ParkBEC itself:


Old 09-27-2010, 02:43 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

The modifications to this EDF Foam "As-Is" Space Shuttle that was given to me from Gerry is complete less the securing of the "DUCT" and therefore installation of the Dimension Engineering ParkBEC.

Here is a wide angle picture from above:




In this picture, you can see the EDF Fan unit through the FUSE openings I made!


Our friends who fly the Space Shuttle has a sign, what does it say????


Some ground pictures:






Old 09-27-2010, 03:21 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

VIDEO OF MY NOSE WHEEL STEERING MODIFICATION!!


[link]http://www.vimeo.com/15317740[/link]
Old 09-27-2010, 04:46 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Well, I applied some of the decals but, I have applied my own MEAT BALL (Quality Decal from the Space Center!)

I will post pictures of how it looks with Custom Decals later today!

Have a nice one!
Old 09-27-2010, 07:50 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

I will get getting (buying some really nice decals here at work) and can't wait to apply them on!

I have been looking at recent pictures such as this one:

Old 09-27-2010, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Is the front 4 holes your only inlet area? Also the nose down will make it very difficult to rotate to take off.
Bob
Old 09-27-2010, 11:34 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Bob,

Air Flow:
Is there a magic number of holes that needs to be there without making the Frontal Nose area look like Swiss Cheese?
Yes, I agree that I made those holes on the Slope side of the frontal fuse. At higher speeds the nose will deflect most of the inlet air and Fan unit will perhaps stall?
I am aiming for a Park Flyer, Slow Flyer style model and not a fast EDF Jet to see if those holes up front will work or not. A hole with a perpendicular angle towards potential inrush Air will have a better chance to reach the EDF Unit and what I made are holes in a high degree of an angle.

Main Landing Gear:
Yes, the angle of incline may look too steep but, the Full Size one has more and I was discussing this with Gerry who told me that having the model go down with a negative airfoil will be really hard to rotate the model for take-off. I am hoping that at this angle the inrush Air will reach the EDF unit (perhaps will make a real neat RC Car? ) At any rate, I will consider all these issues after the first couple of Ground Run testing to see if:

1. Adequate Airfoil is present?
2. Rotation on take-off?
3. Other issues.

Thanks!
Carlos
Old 09-27-2010, 01:30 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Awesome mods my friend!!...I saw this bird in person just two days ago and it's just amazing how much progress was done since then!!.

I like your idea if high speed taxi tests since it will definitely give you a good idea whether the thrust is good enough to fly as is...Ihave a feeling it may be sufficient with the four holes judging by your initial impressions of how good the plane was pushing on your engine run last night!!...

Staying tuned..

Gerry.
Old 09-27-2010, 04:34 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..


ORIGINAL: simano

Awesome mods my friend!!...I saw this bird in person just two days ago and it's just amazing how much progress was done since then!!.

I like your idea if high speed taxi tests since it will definitely give you a good idea whether the thrust is good enough to fly as is...Ihave a feeling it may be sufficient with the four holes judging by your initial impressions of how good the plane was pushing on your engine run last night!!...

Staying tuned..

Gerry.

Gerry!

Thank you so very much for those encouraging words! You are the only one at work that pretty much has been following what and why I am doing this project and most especially why I am using the "DUCT" instead of the open Air / Open Payload Bay Door method.

You are the only one who has told me and said,

"LETS DO IT AND FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS!"

Like Niel from GravesRC just told me,

"It will be a well Engineered Smoking Crater" should it not work!

There is someone that I admire and listen to at work, you know who it is.....that has told me the dangers of having this powerful EDF to make the thin plastic water bottle to collaspe or have the EDF suck like a restricted vacumme clearer.....I do realize all of this but, I still like to try it out and see what happens.

Niel from Graves told me the same, you really do not know if it will work until you try it!

Thanks again good buddy!
Carlos
Old 09-27-2010, 05:10 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

I think that you will have to increase the air flow.

The original started up with a small slot in the top of payload door. There was not enough air,
it had to have payload doors size holes enlarged.
I think that you may have to add opening in nose to be able to ram enough air to come to the edf with a estes rocket tube.
You may also want to add a airfoil to rudder (tail).
The unit I am working on I have changed the foam of the payload doors to pvc vacumn form material and used thin plywood birch to make the arch with 4 forms
along the side used birch 1/8 stringers in the payload doors with the stringers also going along the body with magnets to hold to body
Also changed so the tail assembly and engine assembly is bolted on with 3mm screws Think I can get by with smaller screws with larger washers.
I have carved out of hardwood the nose cockpit area so I can form it with a vacumn form(four pieces). I have detailed the cockpit and lines so it will be able to be detailed and light.
I have not completed a weight between the foam and vacumn formed parts

I will be making the nose, and then adding ram tube and nose wheel box, and then will be filling it up with the foam to give it more strength

Carlos doing a great job Hope to see it with a good flight. Have not seen it fly since the prototype in in March
I do not know how many kits are out there but have not seen any others showing a build.
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Old 09-27-2010, 05:10 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Guys,

I am going to take my time on this one. I am very interested to fly this mode considering all the modifiations I have done on it but, like Gerry always has said,

NO WINE BEFORE IT's TIME!

I am targeting for this coming Sunday morning to fly this model off smooth hard surface.

I say this because I almost got in my car after coming home from work to buy two new 2-Cell Li-POLYs to see if I can fly on Tuesday morning but, logistics and timing about having my Sky Bro (Gerry) to come to Orlando in the middle of the week and coupled that I need a saddle bag approach to setup two Li-POLYs packs to balance the model because of the "DUCT" then, I have decide not to go and purchase some over priced cells that maybe beyond what I need for this EDF Power System.

Instead, I stayed home and opened my e-mail and found one from Esprit Model who are located right here in Plam Bay, Florida and have some very competitive prices on their new line of Li-POLY batteries and I just ordered two (2-Cell EM Sport EM2200's capable of 25C discharge! Best yet, I did not have to fight late afternoon traffic and burn Gasoline!

Here is the link:
[link]http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=9416[/link]

Old 09-27-2010, 05:17 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Richard,

I second your comment that Carlos's model, being the only one documented so far, is to be an inspiring sight in the air!!.

Carlos, glad to see you're taking your time with everything...No Wine Before It's Time is one of the best quotes I know of for use by scratchbuilders!!...he,he....

Gerry.
Old 09-27-2010, 05:24 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Hello Richard!

Welcome good retired friend from Space Center!

I have to say that tonight will be hitting the bed early as last night I did not get any sleep and worked on this Project throughout the night for continued progress and no interruptions.

If I can manage to finish securing the "DUCT" and take it out at the High School Band Practice that has a super smooth concrete area (reason for us to call it "Edwards" ) and can run it up on that surface with good amount of airspeed (without taking off) but, to see how it performs with the "DUCT" and existing Air inlet holes then, I will honestly come back and provide my results may it be successful or not.

I really think that this Project would have been better with a few additional details such as an Wing Air Foil for better flight characteristics but, perhaps one day someone will exceed our wildest imaginations and produce a even better Project / Product in the future, one can only hope.
Old 09-27-2010, 05:32 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

ORIGINAL: simano

Richard,

I second your comment that Carlos's model, being the only one documented so far, is to be an inspiring sight in the air!!.

Carlos, glad to see you're taking your time with everything...No Wine Before It's Time is one of the best quotes I know of for use by scratchbuilders!!...he,he....

Gerry.

Gerry!

I found the packaging of the Solider Figure that came with a very well made parachutt and it's none other than 21st Century called the battle of the BULGE, Airborne Ranger!

I just can not remember what happened to it and prehaps I lost it at Moon Port during those Drops with my Super Cub?

In any regard, I am very interested in making this Project to include a Drag Chut activated by the Retract Switch "GEAR" Switch off my Spektrum DX7.

It should be an easy mod.....anyone?

Carlos[8D]
Old 09-27-2010, 05:59 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

The Crew said lets have Decals as a minimum and so, I applied most of them that came in with the Model.

I believe the Crew Commander is Happy!










Old 09-27-2010, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

For the fan to provide sufficient thrust you will need 100% FSA for the inlet area. I have seen many flights with this model. It was flown in the Cardinal Football stadium last March at the Electric flight Expo. Flew very well, took off is a very short distance. Had good vertical performance and was some what aerobatic. Good luck with yours.
Bob

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHBJn6gQke8&feature=player_embedded#![/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c89w4Mflpfg&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Old 09-27-2010, 06:42 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Bob,

Thanks again. Yes, I have seen both Videos and pictures of this model. Reason for me taking on this project as my buddy just did not have time to do anything with it and I am determine to improve it's flight characterisitics, at least try.

Thanks for the Good Luck wishes.

Carlos[8D]
Old 09-28-2010, 08:25 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Nice job Carlos! Let me know when you do the test run.

You crack me up with the commander figure.

David
Old 09-28-2010, 11:01 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Thanks David!

I will call / Text you with any updates as to when I will be able to perform the taxi run!

Yeah, I really like that action figure!

Carlos
Old 09-28-2010, 12:16 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Decals are in place, astronaut ready for test runs!!...it's quite an achievement skybro!!...looking forward to participate in the test runs.

Gerry.
Old 09-28-2010, 12:28 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Gerry!

You Betcha!

Yes, with any luck I will try to plan it such that you and David can participate.

I just got off the telephone with Esprit Model and they are soldering the Ultra Deans connectors on both of the new 2-Cell, 2200mAH, 25C, EM Sport Li-POLYs and anticipate going out in today's mail run! I should get em on Wednesday after getting back from work.

Carlos[8D]

Old 09-28-2010, 12:53 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Yeeeeee Haaaaaaa......
Old 09-28-2010, 02:16 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

RE: Basic EDF Rules from a very reliable source!

Guys,

Found this web site dedicated to EDF's:
[link]http://www.jethangar.com/Ducted%20Fans/df.html#rules[/link]


GENERAL RULES OF DUCTED FANS


Though GDF's and EDF's are intrinsically different in terms of how the fan is driven, the aerodynamics and rules of thumb of the ducted fan remain the same regardless of the power source. We've compiled a list of items and frequently asked questions that should be helpful to you in your DF jet flying. If there is something we missed , please let us know!

How a ducted fan works - Ducted fans operate as they sound: they are an internally ducted high performance fan which takes in air from the inlet opening and blows air out an exhaust tube to generate forward thrust. The air enters an impeller spinning at high RPM which propels pressurized air out of its exhaust at increased pressure and velocity. A ducted fan thrives on the air fed into it so too little air will starve the fan, thus preventing it from perform at its optimum design point. Conversely, inlets that are grossly oversized can have the same effect: a ducted fan can only process a given amount of air at any particular time, so too much air will hamper performance not to mention the increased drag from the larger inlets.

Requirements for Ducted Fans - Ducted fans generally have inlets sized to approximately 90%-100% of the Fan Swept Area (FSA). Bigger is not always better as inlet sizes can be less, which can actually increase your top end speed (less ram drag), but at the expense of takeoff performance. Though, restricting the inlet too much can result in the fan starving for air no matter how fast the aircraft is travelling. Exhaust outlets are generally sized to approximately 75%-85% FSA. Choking down airflow at the exhaust, increases exhaust velocity. This in turn will increase top end speed of the aircraft. There is, however, a point of diminishing returns: choking down the exhaust too much will back pressure the fan resulting in degraded performance. Additionally, a larger outlet area will increase the static thrust of the system, but lower the top end speed of the aircraft. The areas suggested above represent a good compromise between static thrust and exhaust velocity.

Fan Swept Area - The fan swept area is calculated by subtracting the area of the impeller hub from the area of the inside of the shroud. The equation is shown below:

Duct Area - Impeller Hub Area = Fan Swept Area

External Inlet Shape - The ideal inlet lip shape for a ducted fan aircraft is a 2x1 ellipse. This represents the most aerodynamic shape while maintaining good airflow into the inlet system.

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