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Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

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Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Old 09-21-2010, 08:37 AM
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guapoman2000
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Default Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Yes, this is not your ordinary EDF JET but, it will be powered by an Electric Ducted Fan unit of 64mm and 4-Cell, Li-POLYs.

A friend "gave" this model to me and I will be enhancing it to allow for:

1. Wing Airfoil to allow for better lift and Glide Slope qualities.
2. Adjust EDF location to allow for a more forward Center-Of-Gravity.
3. Adjust the Main landing gear to allow rotation on Rise-Off-Ground (ROG).
4. Incorporate some cheater holes on each side of the FUSE (more like recessed panels going inwards) right in front of the EDF.

This model is not available by anyone and it was a (in my opinion) failed project gone bad due to the lack of communication between the designer and people he involved himself to make the airframe.

As an Aerospace Engineer working at Kennedy Space Center and who have worked on numerous Avionic systems on the Space Shuttle, I dislike many items on "As-Is" model given to me, however, in honor of the Space Shuttle and it's enormous contribution to USA and the world partner counties, I am going to "attempt" to save this model and have it fly in a manner that will honor it's name! There is another person posting his review on the "AS-IS" model and will be posting it's flight characteristics which from his accounts are very poor.

I am not looking for anyone to come here and discuss PAST HISTORY and notice that I am not naming any particular outfit or other names here so, please resist coming here to discuss any past history accounts!

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Old 09-21-2010, 08:47 AM
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giddyuperic
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Looks great how do you get rid of the glide path on the shuttle air frame? I think it is 1 to 1 right just like a rock. Is it is the wing or what and when you say rise off ground does that mean vert take off or a roll down the runway tke off? Thanks can't wait to see her fly.
Old 09-21-2010, 08:52 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..


ORIGINAL: giddyuperic

Looks great how do you get rid of the glide path on the shuttle air frame? I think it is 1 to 1 right just like a rock. Is it is the wing or what and when you say rise off ground does that mean vert take off or a roll down the runway tke off? Thanks can't wait to see her fly.

Rise-Off-The-Ground means rolling off a smooth hard surface as this model comes with landing gear. It is a EDF not a Solid Rocket model so, no....it will not be launch on a verticle pole

The picture I posted is a very early one and the model is already assembled and tonight, I will post the almost complete model.

It has already been glide sloped tested and it is super light and floated in very nicely after careful C-of-G adjustments.

The Flat Airfoil really stinks as you need RAW power to keep it in the air and I just don't like how it flys, if you can call it that.

Stay tuned.
Carlos
Old 09-21-2010, 12:01 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Following the thread closely skybro!!.

Gerry.
Old 09-21-2010, 06:37 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Carlos
I know that you stated you did not want past history, I feel that some should be stated.
The prototype of this shuttle did have a airfoil. The manufacturer of the kit changed from the what was suppose to be the kit. I know the airfoil design did fly on both a 3s and 4s (4s was better) with a 64mm edf. Air intake was modified to allow amount of air required. I am presently changing the shuttle nose with vacumn formed and with a fibreglass payload pay doors. I will be coming out with a new version. This is not a high demanded aircraft only a few old Space nuts are out there, P51 will sell Shuttles will not be a high requested aircraft.
After working in Aerospace for 49 years 11 months and 19 days I was in the design of the shuttle since 1976. I hurts me to see the shuttle to be phased out.
I will be making a new model as I wish to "KEEP THE DREAM ALIVE".
Richard
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:19 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Hi Richard,

Warm Greetings to you and your wife!

No worries and I appreciate the postings of those pictures. I have enhanced the Wing Airfoil to have even a much "Higher" wing Airfoil amount and I have picked Mark's brain on several occasions at my desk to provide for a good Lift capability. So, it will have a taller Wing Airfoil but, still within scale looks.

I just got back from doing my usual erands and stuff and off I go to work on the Shuttle and take pictures.

I may not have any pictures until perhaps til Wednesday.

Have a nice one!
Carlos
Old 09-22-2010, 09:06 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Hi Guys!

Today, I was not feeling 100% so, I stayed home and right about late in the afternoon all rested and energized I went right into the Space Shuttle Project.

First, I took out my notes from what I disucssed with Mark (co-worker, real pilot and Flight Crew Engineer Member) about the Airfoil top location, slope and other technical data about Wing Airfoil.

For a scale off of 26 inch wing span the top (highest point) should be a little more than one (1) inch but, I really did not want to create too much drag so, I decided to use no more than 3/4 of an inch as the highest point where the top wing assemblies would rest and this highest point is a few inches behind the Center of Gravity mark.

Okay, here is a few pictures showing the progress and I am happy to announce that it is looking like the Space Shuttle.

Cutting out the Top Wing Panel:


Panel Weigh-In:




Stand-Off foam Airfoil former at the Root location:









Top Left Wing being glued down:















Top Right Wing Panel Being Glued down:













Old 09-22-2010, 09:27 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Okay, I found some foam that seems to be perfect for the Leading Edge of the wing (Gap Filler) and it will look like the Carbon - Carbon such as on the Full Size!

Stay tuned....

Perhaps another night.

Carlos
Old 09-23-2010, 12:29 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Hi there again guys!

Could not sleep so, went back to finish the leading edge gap openings on both wings using left over 5mm foam board material.

Some 5-minute epoxy and then, a little sanding is all that was needed.

Of course, I plan to use some ORACAL 561 intermediate Adhesive Film to dress up the entire leading edge of wings.

As usual, some more pictures.

Leading edge wing piece:










After a little Sanding:


Right Wing Leading Edge being glued in:


Old 09-23-2010, 02:40 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Yeah! I am still working on the Space Shuttle....

Happened to find this super detailed picture of Space Shuttle Discovery and notice how pronounced the Airfoil on the Full Size.

I am happy with my results as to minimize drag and wind terbulance, keeping the slope of the Airfoil to a minimum was indeed a good thing but, of course the real determination will be during the Maiden Flight under power!

Here is Discovery!!!
Old 09-23-2010, 06:25 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Well,

I finally finished the Airfoil Wing Modification on this "AS-IS" EDF Space Shuttle Model that was given to me.

Note that I used ORACAL Intermediate 651 Cell Adhesive Film for the Leading Edges to hide the imperfections that light Sanding could not take away.







Old 09-23-2010, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Discussing this project with a very knowledgeable Pilot, Engineer, RC Modeler here at the Space Center (Peter F. Richiuso P.E., Mechanical Engineer, Materials Science Division, Mechanical Failure Analysis Branch)

Discussion Results:
My next step is to incorporate a single or twin tubes that will reside inside the Space Shuttle Payload Area instead of allowing the "AIR" Flow to just blow everywhere inside the Payload Bay Area which causes lots of turbulence as a result of having the Air feed to bump inside a large square cavity. Also, the Upper Payload Bay Door panel with the slit holes will make matters worse as Air will just enter without any directional flow and will cause lots of uneven "Air" feed.

Option 1: Is to close the Top Payload Bay Area completely and force Air (Air Feed) to the EDF unit via an enclosed enclosure coming from the bottom of the FUSE. This Enclosure will be setup with Nylon Mesh screen (Double Filter Mesh) to protect the EDF unit from any debris coming from Ground during Rise-Of-Ground Runway operations.

Option 2: Is to make a careful twin holes at the frontal bottom end of the FUSE and make screen mesh squares to make it look like Reactive Control System (Thrusters) and painted BLACK. Interior wise they will be attached with twin round or Square 3mm Depron foam construction to feed forces Air Flow towards the back to the EDF for maximum Efficiency and built a Y-housing somewhere almost near the EDF.

Lots of ideas but, the two above will provide a much better Setup than the Raw Power levels to off set the internal random Air Flow inside the large Payload Bay Area that many have been forced to use.

Oh, yes Peter told me that he can make me a double axle Nose Gear setup should I find one that is steerable.

More to come soon!
Carlos

Old 09-23-2010, 06:48 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Today at work, I was tongue lashed because I did not provide enough Leading Edge roundness throughout the Wing Leading Edge on the model so, I just got back from the Hobby Store and purchased two sized balsa leading edge sections and will start my re-work soon.

The whole reason for an Airfoil was for lift but, if I do not provide a round enough Leading Edge on the wings all that is thrown away as the air will be disrupted instead of going over the wing in a smooth manner.

I am taking pictures
Old 09-23-2010, 08:15 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Great news!

I was able to find some higher grit sand paper along with some tools to clean cut the Triangle stock balsa pieces that I bought from the hobby store today.

The better news is that using this higher Grit Sand paper, I was able to round the existing Foam all along the Leading Edge of the wing assembly and this turned out better than anticipated as I had thought that I would need to glue in yet another piece such as the Triangle Balsa Stock all along the leading edge and it turned out not needed.

I have taken some pictures showing how well this Foam board that I bought at Bob's hobby Center here in Orlando, Florida acts when sand paper and the forming of the edges turned out better than expected.

Stay tuned for pictures!
Carlos
Old 09-23-2010, 09:39 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

I did have time tonight to tinker with two EDF's. One is from Freewing, 64mm EDF with Motor and the other is from StarMax, 70m EDF with motor.

I am posting the weigh-in differences of both and feel that the 70mm is a better deal for the additional of 1 oz. more not withstanding the Foam cage on the 70mm from StarMax.

I did notice that the Freewing EDF unit housing is somewhat flimsy and the blades do make contact when you hold the housing. Also, the StarMax 70mm EDF came with a 50-AMP ESC and with an external BEC.


Here is the FreeWing 64mm:



Here is the StarMax 70mm:
Old 09-23-2010, 09:48 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Like I posted earlier, the foam board and the foam that came with this RC Model accepted to be sanded without any issues and the foam did not crumble or tear. As such, I was able to shape the entire wing leading edge all around with a capable round shape to allow smooth Air Flow over the wings.

I noticed that I had to provide additional filler and more 5-minute epoxy in some areas so, I am happy that I did go back and re-checked the wing assemblies!

A few pictures as promised:















Old 09-23-2010, 09:51 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

I am going to hit the sack as I did not get any sleep last night so, I bid you all good nite!

Carlos!
Old 09-24-2010, 04:02 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Tonight, the final assembly of Elevons, EDF, ESC, and most importantly the Dimension Engineering Park BEC will be installed as I just did not see any external BEC provided with the Electronics of this model?

I mean after all the work done on this model, the last thing on my mind is to crash it because of an overheated onboard BEC of the supplied ESC (Freewing).

Mark (the other person who received this model "AS-IS" without any instructions forwarded me the pictures of his installation and I am thinking that since I have a Wing Airfoil, I can install the Elevon Servos underneath the wing at the rear to cut down on those very long metal push rods.

I am aiming to maiden this model that I have modified and still modifying by Sunday morning at our RC Club with asphalt runway (500 feet X 50 Feet). I am sure that I would not be needing all that runway but, on a maiden you can never tell.

I am certain that using the StarMax 70mm EDF is better than using the Freewing 64mm EDF as this model needs thrust rather than airspeed. I have seen many nice EDF "Jets" use the 64mm and they scream but, this Space Shuttle model requires all the thrust it can get and reason why I have opted to use the StarMax 70mm EDF unit that came with my StarMax F5-E Electric EDF Jet.

Hoping to make lots of progress tonight!

Carlos
Old 09-24-2010, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

The Cyclone Power "Red Velocity" 64mm Special Metal Fan Can replace the stock fan system of most 64mm EDF Foam Jet In the market.
This is the EDF I will be using on my final version of the Shuttle



Description:
- Outside Diameter: 67mm
- Rotor Diameter: 64mm 5 Blade- Material: ABS & Special Aluminum
- Weight: 176g (Whole Unit With Motor)
- Motor: 28mm Inrunner Brushless Motor , 4,300KV ( Include & Installed )
- MAX RPM: 49,000 - 52,000 rpm
- Max Power: 750W
- Battery Required: 11.1v - 14.8V 1,800 - 2500mAh

Static Thrust:
11.1v Around 950g ( 37A ) , ESC Timing Mode : High Position
14.8v Around 1,200g ( 48A ) , ESC Timing Mode : Middle Position
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:33 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Great mods being done here. I have the standard model which does force itself around the sky on pure 4S thrust but hopefully yours will fly a little more aerodynamically with the real wing section. I made up a balsa inlet tube from the bottom of fuse but have not yet covered the hatch slots and installed. You are correct in that the air coming in all those hatch slots is very turbulent. Have tandem wheel, steerable nose gear. Full size sits very nose down but scaling that attitude mine will not rotate for take off, needs a little poitive angle of attack to get off ok. Landings under power are very scale like and I hope you don't loose this with too much lift !!
Old 09-25-2010, 07:05 PM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Wow!

A Busy day for sure! Worked on the Shuttle until 11:00am and then the pounding at my door to do the family thing! In record time, I was able to take the family out to get food, run erands and other stuff. I even avoided an Ugly Auto Accident from someone cutting two lanes of traffic and went right in front of me without any visible sign that this person was concern of T-Boning them! I slammed on my brakes and turned the steerring wheel gently and came to rest on the shoulder and near the sidewalk in front of a very large and busy Orlando, Florida Mall. I am sure this person did not see me "or" they were on the Freaking Cell Phone!

Speaking of Steerng, I have completed the Nose Wheel Steering for this Space Shuttle "AS-IS" model. A few of you may know where I took it from and none other from the FMS Large EPO P-51D Mustang 57-Inch Wing Span (Foamie). I took the Tail wheel assemly out from the AirFrame ONLY version that I had lying around and dissassemble it to remove and rid of the Heavy Plastic housing and usig the Strut portion and installed a new Servo for nose Wheel Steering. I inserted the entire assembly into a custom FOAM housing as this saved me a little over 1 oz. of weight because I did not use the heavy plastic housing that comes with this tail wheel assy. I am just super pleased in how it all came in place and Made a Video of it in action. Oh, the Nose Wheel has two wheels using a T-Connector setup, I made this custom on my own!

Since I took the bottom FUSE piece out in order to install the nose Wheel steering assembly, I have gone to make a DUCT from all the way in the NOSE (Where the Reactive Control System - RCS) is located as this is a line of sight into the EDF! I am making a housing to be glued from the inside where Four small (1/2 inch each) holes where made at the frontal FUSE to be used as a collector intake (inrush) feed and one single tube being attached to this collector. An extension tube(s) will be secured with foam formers and this will make the Space Shuttle "AS-IS" Model into the close feed setup like the F-86 EDF Jet, one solid feed into the EDF will greatly enhance the efficiency!

I have also made my own Main Gear struts and used strong yet thin and light weight wire and the only wheels that I found to spin without a Whobble was some old GWS 1.5 inch diameter wheels. The supplied wheels are just too small and the red plastic insert made them whobble something Ugy! The Wire for the Main Gear was a JOKE! I threw them away in a hear beat!

I am still working so, I will upload the Video and lots of Pictures later as I do not want to slow down with the PROGRESS!

Carlos
Old 09-27-2010, 01:14 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

It has been a Marathon "Scratch Build" Session over here in Orlando, Florida! All this including detailing my car myself, fixed a few things around the house, went out to get more food etc..! I even flew Sunday morning with my Sky Bro, Gerry (Simano) who came to the House the looked over the Space Shuttle.

This model was given to me by Gerry which came with lots of Dupro Products to complete it.

Well, I would not use those Plastic Bullet style Hinges as this "is" a foam model and I have used Computer Floppy disk material with great success in the past and no dfferent now!




Now, while the hinge material cured, I wasted no time and make he necessary cutting into the Foam to install some E-Flite 60 Servos I had lying around!





Using 3M Double Sticky Tape made things very easy!


Finish Prduct, No messy Push Rods inside the FUSE etc...etc...
Old 09-27-2010, 01:33 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Guys,

Other Dupro hardware that came with this model was some really small yet very light Control Surface "HORNS" and these just go in with glue. I am use to control horns that come wtih screws and back plates! Those tinny tiny plastic control horns went quickly to the Garbage!

I took my Control horn hardware from a "used" StarMax F5-E EDF Jet:


Here is the final Product, I just love back plates and metal screws, it is worth the weight for piece of mind!




Old 09-27-2010, 01:46 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Okay, now for the creative stuff!

Since I had decided to make a "Duct" for this model to make it as close as possible to "other" EDF Jets such as the F-86 and others then, I really had to pay the Tax man and go at it like I really mean it and I did!

Since I had removed the Lower Frontal Section of this model for the Steerable nose Wheel then, I went to create formers / bulk heads to force (Direct) the Air Flow into the FUSE and in order to do this was by creating directional bulk heads with this Crew Cabin!



Closeup of Directional "Air" Bulk Heads Showing it all complete with the Extension for the Nose Wheel Steering servo:
Old 09-27-2010, 01:58 AM
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Default RE: Space Shuttle Depron RC Model - Scratch..

Speaking of Nose Wheel Steering, here is two pictures of the complete assembly!





Another problem I had was the tiny rectangle base for the Main Fixed Landing Gear, that Black Foam will rip in a Heart Beat should you come in a little hard "or" at the first hard landing so, I cut out some 1/32nd quality Light Plywood rectangle from Mid-West products. Oh, you can see the final Elevon Setup as well !




Final Main Landing Gear Setup, notice my custom wire and wheels from GWS (1.5 inch diameter)



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