puma79

I have seen several examples of these incredible kits! Are they still available? Does anyone have one of these kits still around, that they are looking to sell?

THoughts?

skyhawknut

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They have been out of production for a few yaers now and are hard to find. When you do find them people want a premium price for them. The last couple that sold on e-zone went for around $500 bucks US!!!!! Lot of money for a piece of styrofoam. There is one on ebay right now for about $250. Go to eay and type in a search: bae146

all one word. I think it ends in a day or so.

Shawn Palmer

www.eam.net had several for a while - might check them out.

Shawn

skyhawknut

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Long sold out from EAM

BTW - If anyone has one that is wreaked I'd like to buy it. Want to use it as the starting point for a mold!

drksyd

You can do a search here, siesta had some for sale but I think he only has a Dash 7 left.

burnedout007

as of today there is one on ebay curently at $499.00
they show a pic of sombody holding a completed one MAN WAHT A MONSTER.
if you got that you could make a carbon fuse off of it and then make a mold also creating a carbon wing fo it wouldnt be too hard. that would make one hell of a kit.
also making it out of carbon, or kevlar/glass composit would make it realy light and way stronger than the foam. in fact i was going to buy the last one that went up last month but it went to 657.00 which is was more than i was willing to pay.
the kit went out of production in 96 or 98 dont remember which.
here is a valid link as of 9-23-03

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=2563

however this person stated that it is complete he also says that it is designed for such and such a fan unit.
i cant get a reply as to wether it has them in the kit but my understanding was that the kit included 4 complete edf units( which by the way were grosely under powered for the size of ship this is.)
wish you luck!!

burnedout007

by the waythe *'s are replaced with" ebay DOT com " in proper format.

puma79

Dude, thanx.

I hope i win this damn auction. I have been hunting one of these baby's for about 6 months now!

Hope it comes through for me....

Any thoughts on correct EDF units? You mentioned underpowered??

burnedout007

sure any of the HIGH power 480 powered fans or the much higher power 540/50 driven fans suck as the kyosho fan unit useing the ap29l-v special.
4 or those will do the job especialy if you glass/carbon the entier thing then melt the foam when you arte done.
but its a bigkit and that will add 75 per fanuint with motor and at least 200.00 for the glass materials( carbon would cost 2-4 times as much but be lighter and MUCH stronger)
of course unless you have experience with glassing a fuse or wing core i dont recomend it with a kit this BIG!!!!!! however 4 good fans and covering the wings with a good 1/16" balsa sheet will grately strengthen the wings(if i remember right the instructions even recoment it.)
plan on at least 60-80 high power cells. and either 2 60-100 amp speed controlers or 4 40 amp esc's
it is SO big that it may also need one of the small auto pilots to help with landings.
to do this kit decently you are looking at at least 1100.00 and to do it well my go upto 2k.
hope that helps

skyhawknut

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Burnedout007,
Well I hate to say it but do you have one of these? Because They fly wonderfully on the stock powerplants.

Puma79
The kit doesn't come with motors and fans - they were seperate, but I think that you can still get them from Robbe. If not they are pretty easy to find. most people trash them from the gnat. For some reason they didn't work well in the fuse but they work beautifully in a pod. Check out the link below, those guys really know what they are doing and helped me get mine airborne. Do eddiep's flap mod - really helps. His is glassed, he uses 1, 70 amp esc, and with nicads it weighed 8.1 pounds ( he now uses lipolys. 7 oz lighter and 20 min flights) and he flies it in Reno (very hot and like 5000ft asl) check out the video. Good luck!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=140461

skyhawknut

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You don't need 60 cells - are you mad!!!!!!!?????????

most guys fly on 14-16 cells (I use 16 HRSC2000 nimh) and a single 50-70 amp speed control. You could wire the motors in parallel and use 8, 3000mah cells, but with decreased run time. Some guys have replaced the stock fan with the kyosho fan. You get higher static thrust which is good for low speed but not for the top end. Only problem is your amps go up and the overall stock preformance is very good. You don't need an autopilot as it is as stable as a trainer. The wings can be weak at the wing root but if you glass the model with 1/2 - 3/4 oz cloth you will be fine. Check out the link I gave you and talk to Eddie - he is pretty much the 146 guru!

burnedout007

to answer some questions.
yes i owned this kit at one time(before i could completely build one my self i had it built for me.)
mine was built completely covered in carbon/kevlar covering reinforced with carbon spars and other such items.(over a balsa skin)
all foam was dissolved and the entire unit NOT including equipment, weighed about 10lb.
with equipment installed, including 4 EDF's with 550 motors.
40 li-ion cells ( i mentioned 60 nicad/nimh because 60 of those hold less charge than 40 li-ion cells and weigh more but cost WAY less.)
the 40 were setup in 2 packs of 20
2 80 amp electronic speed controllers.
receiver serveros retracts etc etc weighed about 16 lb (yes this is heavier than projected but it flew very well and was awesome!!
by the way my estimate of cells is based on 15-30 min of flight depending on consumption NOT 5-8 min that 16 cells would give.
yes this is a long time for a single electric flight but i always use light coper heat sinks which do not interfere with air flow with the efd's. and i use a high performance lubrication for my motors, both at the barrings and the brushes.
each fan should be able to fly about 2x the amount of thrust it produces. each of my fans produce just over 40oz of thrust at around 10v.
also my unit had a $300.00 computer on board(that is what it cost at the time) this computer would basically land the plane for me if needed and would bring it under control from almost anything except for catastrophic failure.


by the way, the materials used to make the fuse and wings and pretty much everything else was one ply of kevlar cloth 3.7oz
and one ply of 5.7 oz cabbon fiber cloth. all laid up and vacuum bagged then all foam was removed useing acetone.
dave

drksyd

[X(] What configuration did you have the lithium ion packs in? I'm quite sure they weren't 20 cells in series for each pack, that would be 72 volts! Given that li-ions are only rated at 3C (most that I've seen) that would be the battery pack you wouldn't want to use.
[:@] A totally perfect kit used as a plug only to be disolved away? I don't understand why the balsa sheeting if you melted away the foam. Did you say your carbon spar was between the balsa sheeting and the kevlar covering? How did you get the ribs and or formers in?
Over 10 lbs of thrust, that thing must have been a rocket. No wonder you had your computer in there.

burnedout007

ill try to be a little more clear.
first at the time, i had no experience glassing so i had it done.
second ig i had been thinking about it i would have had molds made but i wasnt and so yes WHAT A WAIST!!!!!!!!!!!
if i had it to do over that is what i would have done and and started making my own kits but allas unfourtantly i dont own it any longer(which im sure could have a mold made from it even now.)
third: yes it WAS a rocket!!!! but remember thatthe max thrust was at full throtle which was almost NEVER used!!! the stock fans i tried to use and it was just a slug it took forever just to get off the ground and then only got about 8-10 min of flight time and the motors burned out after about 6 flights( man i wish i had a vid of how well it did fly)
i ended up replacing both the motors and fan units with kyosho ap29l specials( or they may have been ap36 i dont remember it has been a couple of years.)
the fans i was useing were a slightly bigger version of the curent fans i have which are 8 blade units single pice fan with aluminum hub with 1mm space betwene the fan and shroud. size 82mm( my curent fans are 63mm, which put out about 32oz of thrust at about 10v)
fourth:as for the battery packs they were built for me and they WERE 20 cells at around 10v i think 10.4 or 10.8
used laptop bateries <remover from cases and made into uesable packs with the electronic boards setup to connect directly to the chargers and then the packs connect to those.>and chargers, each 20 cell pack was actualy 3 packs of 7 ( which i guess means that it was actualy 21cellsx 2 or 42 cells. which means that the actual voltage of each pack was 10.8 and i belive each cell was either 2400mah or 4800).

and last as for the construction of the wings i built the kit myself EXCEPT for all of the glassing.
standard ribs were NOT used!!! remember the wings are complete foam cores useing balsa leading edges.
so before i sheeted them with 1/32 balsa i complete the wings with 3mm carbon spars and after i sheeted them i used 1mm carbon rods and shaped them in 5 diff places as ribbs(cutting 1mm slots into the wing so that the rod was flush with the top of the balsa<i did this so that the rod would be fused with the kevlar /carbon when epoxied together..> also each wing hald had a 1/8 true plywood base for strength
also the base of the wing mount on the fuse was fited with a1/8 ply again for strength and then 6 nylon 2" bolts were used to BOLT the wing to the fuse.

with the exception of the pushrod tubes and wireing ducts all cutouts ware done AFTER glassing and than each pice was held into place with very small screws and or hinges. wish i had pics but this is before i had a dv cam or digital cam to take pics with and i have NEVER used a film camera so i just dont have pics.

any other questions i will do my best to answer , it has been about 2 years so ill try.
curently i just got a gulfstream kit and am starting it i AM taking pics of it from start to finish.

burnedout007

oh just a couple more things
first why balsa if i had it glassed??? for a VERY smoth finish to start with.
also the guy i had do it for me said if it wasnt sheeted i ran the risk of the foam colapsing because of the vacuum bagging even at 8" of hg(merc or whatever)

also on the fuse after sheeting it i used 8 special order 3mm carbon rods around the circunfrumce(or however it is spelled) from tip to tip evenly spaced. again the same method of adding these carbon rods is the same as adding them on the wings. so that they can bond with the kevlar/carbon.

i belive the total weight of the carbon rods and kevlar cloth and carbon cloth, not including epoxy and balsa was about or around 6lb. which means betwene all balsa and epoxy that weight was about or around 4 lb.i would venture to guess that the balsa didnt weigh more than 1.5-2lb which is ALOT of balsa!!!!

also i know this question will come up if the thread says alive so ill answer it now
i spent just over 2k for the completed plane.

burnedout007

oops i knew i forgot one more thing a black color additive was added to the epoxy and when he was finished with it it was so perfict that it did NOT requier painting!!!! i just added some stencels and it was ready to go( no, no airline that i know of that used these planes painted them black but i thought it would be cool to do it in a black military sceam.

burnedout007

one very last thing as im thinking about
due to the posability of diferential roll with multipul edf's and esc's. the two inboard efd's were wired to one esc and the two outboard edf's were wired to the second esc.
hope that helps.

skyhawknut

My Feedback: (3)

[X(][X(][X(][X(]

NO WONDER you needed all that power!!!!!!!!!!

I ment no disrespect but I was talking in realitive terms. I think you are the only one who has gone to that extream. I was simply saying the plane flies fine stock and even with a 1/2 oz cloth covering it weighs quite a bit but I get 8 min on my batteries. After that I'm ready for a break anyway! Yours was the exception and this is the way everybody else has been flying them. I was thinking that you were saying that was the only way to do it.

I still can't imagine it carried 60 cells!!??!! Where did you put them all?

burnedout007

none taken.
remember i was useing about 42 li-ion which weich less than 42 nimh cells.
it would take about 60 nimh cells to have the power and endurance onf the packs i was useing.
also remember i melted all the foam when all glassing was done so there was tons of room!!!
i mean that foam fuse is huge and has some realy good useable space but just try to imagine how much room is created when all of the foam is removed!!!! its not just alot of room its
ALOT of room.
several cubic feet!!!and because the bateries(eventhough the li-ion cells are lighter than nimh) i places the packs inside the fuse directly under the wings on the sides of the fuse.

extream YES!!! but see i only get to make one project every one to two years. this years project is a 65.00 gullfstreamIV that will probably endup being somplace around 800-1400.00 depending the equipment used.
i already have about 300 in extra 1/64 ply,carbon rods,carbon cloth and epoxy.
looking to try a alternitive hinging system this time around.
anyway puma 79 did you win?? did you get the kit??
any questions id be happy to answer.
dave