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George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

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George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

Old 08-19-2012, 05:43 PM
  #151  
George Miller
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!


ORIGINAL: grbaker

And the first thing Tom does is put it in a shallow dive to make a high speed pass over the runway.

It never came out of the dive. Straight into the runway and it wasn't pretty from there.

The stab mechanism had failed.
George,

The stab mechanism did not fail. The stab servo was not up to the task (not enough torque). After that one crashed there were 2 more of your phantom kits built with twin Dynamax power, one with .77s and one with .91s. Both flew at top speeds much much higher than any of the Byron powered F-4s and the JMP stab mechanisms were just fine. My twin .77 powered one was as fast as my Starfire IIb which was clocked at 190 mph on several occassions.

Hi Gary,

Thank you for the information and putting me straight. I was just going on what they said when it crashed. I was there at the time.

But I too couldn't really figure how Tom's unit would fail. Being metal and all.

No one has ever given me further info about what really happened before.

And I too have built a F-4 using two Dynamax fans. I built "Sageburner" F-4H-1. Notice the smaller nose and the canopy before they raised it.

But I was not very happy with it. Turning this F-4 of mine which usually comes out at about 11 to 12 pounds into a 17 pound model greatly reduced all of it's good qualities for additional speed.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:48 PM
  #152  
George Miller
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!


ORIGINAL: dionysusbacchus

I have been working slowly on this project along with a few others at least! I've basically finished the wings. I use my ultra light weight finishing system of thinned Z-poxy resin, about 40 percent resin to 60 percent alcohol. No sanding of resin is needed, it's just enough to stick the cloth to the wood, next I fill the weave with spot putty and acetone. This sands very easily, then just prime with a thick build primer and wet sand.

I'm going to add the racks, missiles and tanks, along with some panel line detail. That will come after I get these wings attached to the fuselage.

And George, your 55'' F-4 is way to small. Like you used to say, ''it does not give you the presentation that this larger aircraft will give you.'' And maybe instead of using my thread to sell your smaller F-4 maybe you should post it in the marketplace.
Thank you for your kind words Luke.

I was on my way to the dumpster at the field the other day with my F-4's in hand. A fellow modeler asked me what I was doing. I told him I was throwing these F-4's away because they were too small and had no presence. He said he had read your post and felt that the F-4 you are building is too small and has no presence either. That you should go get a Centry Jet or a BVM. So I guess it is just how one looks at something.

I think that "YOUR" thread has been used by a bunch of fine modelers who are just as interested in the being able to talk Jets with me as the very few post you have done about your almost a year old project here. Especially considering you decided to pass on it three pages ago after most of your posting was about your problem with "Spring Air" anyway. We have continued on, talking about everything from YF-22's, A-10's, T-38's and even Opel GT's. And yes, even about a fine modeler trying to get the stuff so he can build YF-22s which he got trough me on this thread.

I guess you are not following the post too good. I am not trying to sell F-4's here. If I was trying to sell F-4's I would go to another place. (I realize they are too small for you, but that doesn't really weigh much in my book) All I was doing was offering one of these modelers who are on this thread the chance to be able to build a F-4 that would not cost them a small fortune for a overweight F-4 that is only capable of around a 3 minute flight.

So luke, forget about this project, go get yourself a F-4 that is really big, put a couple turbines in it, spend $30,000.00, and for that amount of money you will be impressing everyone with your presence.

And if other modelers talking about other things than your project and you problems with Spring Air bothers you, maybe your should deleat the thread.
Old 08-21-2012, 02:10 AM
  #153  
ShaneSunday
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

WOW. Honestly Ijust came here for info on building a great F4. Dyno yours is looking brill BTW. Can't we all just get along?
Old 08-22-2012, 08:28 AM
  #154  
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

I fill the weave with spot putty and acetone
Luke,

Your Phantom is really lookin' good.

Can you explain the spot putty and acetone process. Sounds interesting!
Old 08-27-2012, 05:58 AM
  #155  
dionysusbacchus
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

ORIGINAL: grbaker

I fill the weave with spot putty and acetone
Luke,

Your Phantom is really lookin' good.

Can you explain the spot putty and acetone process. Sounds interesting!


grbaker I'd be glad to explain what I do. First off some will say to never thin your epoxy, but this is only true in structural applications in my opinion. You never want to sand epoxy, it's to much work and way to heavy.

I start by thinning my Z-Poxy finishing resin with Denatured alcohol. First mix the resin then add the alcohol until it's about 40 or 50 percent resin. If you are moving along and the resin starts to thicken up just add more alcohol.

Work the bottom of the wing first, lay the class down and brush on the resin, nothing else is needed. When the alcohol evaporates it will leave just enough resin to bond the cloth to the wing, that is all the resin you want on the model. It will be very durable, but if you want true ding resistance and a much harder to fly model then I would put on 2 coats of un-thinned resin! Sanding for hours between coats! lol!

After your wing is completely glassed, next using red spot putty and Acetone, mix the two in a glass jar until it is paintable, not sure how else to describe it. Liberally paint this mixture on your wing to begin filling the weave of the glass cloth. It will dry in short order, so you can begin sanding, it sands very easily so with some 320 sandpaper you should have it done it no time. Just be sure not to use to much pressure when sanding, don't over do it, you don't want to sand through the cloth.

Next I just use a can of high build primer, this will fill any remaining weave in the glass cloth. Wet sand with 400 sandpaper, don't use a ton of water, I just use a small bucket and dip the sand paper in it occasionally.

A good tip for sanding is let the sandpaper do the work, excessive pressure will lead to high and low spots and you may go through the glass cloth.



Old 08-27-2012, 03:56 PM
  #156  
john ray
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:37 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Tampaflyer View Post
and before i can get to it i am trying to finish this byronfand/f conversion...
the F89 by ETA. its shows it age, but want to redo do it! Gary
Old 12-04-2022, 08:45 PM
  #158  
RodSpringer
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I know this is a very old thread ...but I am looking for information on control throw information on my Miller F4. I am converting it over to a Byron EDF. I built a Black Bunny version of this about 1989--90ish. I now have aquired a never flown prebuilt one with the thrust tube installed....so it is a more advance model than my original one, I am going to fly.
I have the plans and indicated CG, but scannot locate my original manual with setup for the stab position and recommed control throw measurements... anyone have something to help me out in this regards?
Thanks in advance
Rod Springer
Old 12-05-2022, 05:30 AM
  #159  
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Hi Rod,

I'll send a note to George and see if he recalls the details. He is in fairly poor physical condition and can't do much at the computer these days. If he does respond, I'll let you know.

Paul
Old 12-07-2022, 07:09 PM
  #160  
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Thank you...appreciate any help...

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