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70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

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70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

Old 03-25-2012, 09:39 AM
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Default 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

Day one
Well my Banana Hobby Mig 15 arrived today. I removed the stock fan and motor and ESC. Did alot of sanding to get the new fan to fit correctly so I could get the fan access to close all the way. Fabricated and fitted the a thrust tube after I sanded those two speed brake blisters on the inside. Taped up my hinges on all the flight controls. Mounted all the pitch horns on the control surfaces. Installed the control rods where I could.
Tomorrow I will be glueing the wings and Horizontal stabs. Glueing the new fan and ESC into place and rigging all the control surfaces. Hopefully mother nature will be nice to me this weekend and I can possibly make my maiden flight this weekend with FPV.

Instead of starting another thread I'll just add to this one.

Day two. Wings, horizontal stab, and canopy glued into place. Had a problem with one wing though. I think I mixed my epoxy a littly to hot, because when I went to fit it into place It wouldnt go in all the way. So now the wings arent square. Its not bad and Ive flown with worse, but Im not happy about it. Flight controls rigged, nose wheel steering wires installed and she looks pretty good with the exception of my epoxy job. But none of my airplanes have really been all that pretty. I really hate to build, even ARF's. So I get her all assemble let the glue set and check the CG. Going off of what the translated chinese instruction manual says Im a little tail heavy. But I believe that is due to the upgraded fan and motor. The motor is much larger in size and extends further back than the stock one. So now I have to double check my CG again after I get my esc installed all the way.

By the way Luke where did you measure you CG at on your BH Mig? And how did it come out. Also what did you use to secure your battery into place? The kit didnt come with anything. I think I will just use a strip of Velcro.

Day3. Added 1 1/2 oz of lead to the nose. I think its gonna be pretty close. Before I added the weight, with the battery installed gear down with the aircraft on the ground the nose was very light. I could lift the nose only just a little bit and it would flip up onto its tail. Now with the weight in the nose as far fwd as I can get it. I can lift the nose so the tail is within about 3 or so inches and it will go back on the nose gear on its own. Im pretty stoked. Now if mother nature would knock of this wind I may be able to do a maiden flight this weekend. <span class="info">

</span><span style="font-size: x-small"><span class="info">So I did my maiden flight this morning, 25 March, 2021.

I taxied out down the runway turned around and fire walled the throttle. Granted it was taking off going up hill but I was a little worried if it would have enough airspeed. So after about 200ft of take off roll I give it just a little up elevator and to my surprise the nose rotates and it breaks ground. I hit the gear switch and started a very scale looking climb out. After gaining some altitude I relaxed just a little bit, but the aircraft is still flying at full throttle but oddly enough I didnt need any trimming at all. So I did some fly bys and did some drag racing with my brother and his Habu as he was airborne at the same time as me. The Habu is clearly faster but the Mig weighing in at 56 oz is pretty fast. I slowed it down to about half throttle and she fly pretty good. Anything less than half throttle requires flaps, for any kind of stability. So I drop the flaps, no violent pitch up but the plane did wiggle just a little bit as the flaps came down. And then its rock solid. So I drop the gear to shoot some approaches. Gear down, Flaps down about 1/8 throttle with perfect glide sloap. About 6 inches off the ground I chop the throttle and it was like somebody turned on a powerful magenent. The wheels touched the ground and stuck.

In all Im very pleased with how this bird fly's. Im thinking it needs a much larger ESC than the 60A Dynam (Detrum) that is in it. I spoke to the guy that sold me the EDF/Motor combo. He say's that the motor is rated up to 5S with 100A ESC. So Im thinking to my self. The current ESC that is in the Mig now is a 60A probably 50A constant with up to 80A at Wide open. And the jet flies great at wide open. So with an 70-80A ESC giving me a possible 100-110A wide open power, the jet should fly faster. Time will tell. And so will I when I find out.

Happy flying.

Edit. I did have my FPV camera and I thought about installing it for the maiden flight. But really who wants to document a crash on the first flight. So after I get my new larger ESC I will hang the camera so I can share with you all.
</span></span>
Old 03-28-2012, 12:48 PM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

I got my Mig at Christmas and built it and everything and then when I took it out the the field it didn't have enough thrust to keep it in the air. Do you have to get a new motor? Or could you replace the ESC?
Old 03-29-2012, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

Well replacing the fan,motor, and esc is an option. I have some questions and statements that Im going to ask and make, so bear with me.

Are you using the stock battery? If so you should probably go to a larger battery size. For example the battery that comes with the your Mig is probably a 4s 2200mha 20c or 25c. I would recommend a 4s 3000 up to 4000mha 40c battery thats what I use. I was able to fly my Mig with the stock set up and the size battery that I just recommened. But it used alot of runway and didnt perform very well. So I would go with a larger power battery to start at.

Your runway that you fly from is it grass or pavement? Grass create's alot of drag on the wheels and will prevent you from gaining enough airspeed to take off. So unless your flying off of a golf course putting green you will struggle to get your plane in the air. Not to mention the fact thatthe grass surface is very tough on the landing gear on will pull the gear out of the mounting point in the wing and on thenose because of the size ofthe wheels and the resistance created.Pavement on the other hand is the prefered surface to fly from especially using a EDF type aircraft.

What elevation is your flying site at. This will be a huge determining factor in deciding whether or not you need to upgrade your fan, motor, and ESC. My flying site is at 5000ft in elevation so the air is thinner requiring more power to make more thrust. But when you get a better fan and more powerful motor, and a larger ESC to run the motor correctly. You will need a larger mha battery, C rating to give you a longer flight time and provide enough discharge power to take full advantage the power available that the new motor and fan will give you.

So if your flying above 2000ft elevation it is my opinion that yes you should probably upgrade your fan, motor, ESC, and your battery back. Especially if your trying to take off from a grass runway.

The following links Ive provided will get you a quality fan, motor, and ESC. If thats the route you choose to go. Granted this particular set up is kinda expensive but its quality equipment, and should fly your Mig nicely.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...0kv-EFLM3015DF

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...ed-fan-EFLDF15

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...s-esc-EFLA1060

Or Ive used this web site www.edfhobbies.com This guy has a large variety of stuff and is knowledgable about what he sells. And his prices are a little less but not much than what I listed above. Let me put it this way. If you want to fly your Mig, if I were you I would plan on spending between $100-$200 dollars to get what your looking for. And for the most part you get what you pay for so dont buy the cheapest stuff you can find because you will likely have the same problem as you did with the factory equipment that came in your Mig.

Old 04-04-2012, 10:48 AM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

So about a week agoI installed my 80A ESC in my Mig to compliment the SAPAC 70mm EDF unit and Cyclone Power 3300Kv. With the crap for weather that we have had here in Northern Nevada I wasnt able to fly the Mig, and very happy for this. Keep reading and I will tell you why. Sobecause of the weather I was stuck in the garage and going to do some test pulls with the new 80A ESC. Got everything fired up and slowly advanced the throttle and the fan and or the motor made a horrendus screaching noise at about 3/4 throttle. I emidiately powered it down looked down the duct and everything appeared to be normal. Fan blades still intact and no scoring to the inside of the fan shround. I tried again with the same results and I notice that it didnt seem to be producing much thrust as it did with the 60A ESC. Then It dawned on me......... I reprogramed the 80A ESC with the new programming card that it came with.A couple of minutes later with the new ESC timing adjusted back to low I tried another high power run. Much improvement I must say. The fan excellerated normally and sounded fantastic. I cycled the throttle a few more times with the same results. So now Im getting it set up to do a static thrust pull, all set up and start to advance the throttle the pull gage starts reading and the numbers are climbing and right about 2.5 lbs of thrust about 2/3-3/4 throttle I here this nasty smacking noise. ALLSTOP!!!! ***?????!!!!!! So I look down the duct again and I see hanging wires. And the fan blades look like my dog got ahold of them. Im lucky I suppose that I was able to kill the motor as it could have been much worse if any of the blade separated from the hub. So Im waiting on my new EDF unit to arrive, should be anyday now. I know the plane already flys good on that fan and motor set up, But with my new found power Im hoping for better performance. Hopefully if the weather is reasonable this weekend I will have some results to post back and possibly a FPV video if I can find a suitable place to mount my little dice camera.
Old 04-04-2012, 03:34 PM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

sapac fans are very poor quality fans. they're mfg'd from soft plastic which expands under high rpm. the rotor blades also flatten out under high rpm and you lose your pitch, thrust ect..ect...

youd get much better performance with a wemo or het fan.
Old 04-04-2012, 03:42 PM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15


ORIGINAL: stoneenforcer

sapac fans are very poor quality fans. they're mfg'd from soft plastic which expands under high rpm. the rotor blades also flatten out under high rpm and you lose your pitch, thrust ect..ect...

youd get much better performance with a wemo or het fan.
Well............. Thats good to know I suppose. Im still experimenting with fan at this point in time as Im relatively new to the whole EDF scene. Ive also got a Change Sun fan that I could put in there. And Ive been playing with the Idea of using this one also http://www.ductedfans.com/Raging_Sto..._fans_com.html. Also the Mig airframe that Im using is pretty high in drag also. Its not nearly as slick as say the foam Habu or something of that design. But I appreciate your input.
Old 04-04-2012, 04:09 PM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

the change sun is as bad as the sapac. the storm fan is no longer produced and if you do get your hands on it, you'll find out its a serious amp hog. you'll need atleast a 125amp esc and Ive even seen those esc's smoke on the runway. in all it was a bad design and has no efficiency vs output. * careful about ordering from df.

how many cells you running? a real good set up on 4s is a mega 16/25/1.5r ( 3750kv) in a wemo or het fan. pinch the tube down to about 53mm

You'll need an 80amps esc.



something I noticed was your numerics on esc's arent correct. if an esc is rated for 80, your not going to pull 100 WOT. you need to reverse your thinking.... EX: if you need to pull 80a you need to buy a 100a esc.
Old 04-04-2012, 05:01 PM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15


ORIGINAL: stoneenforcer

the change sun is as bad as the sapac. the storm fan is no longer produced and if you do get your hands on it, you'll find out its a serious amp hog. you'll need atleast a 125amp esc and Ive even seen those esc's smoke on the runway. in all it was a bad design and has no efficiency vs output. * careful about ordering from df.

how many cells you running? a real good set up on 4s is a mega 16/25/1.5r ( 3750kv) in a wemo or het fan. pinch the tube down to about 53mm

You'll need an 80amps esc.



something I noticed was your numerics on esc's arent correct. if an esc is rated for 80, your not going to pull 100 WOT. you need to reverse your thinking.... EX: if you need to pull 80a you need to buy a 100a esc.
All good information. As I stated Im new to the EDF scene.Im converting over from Nitro powered planes so Im kinda dumb when it comes to electric stuff and combining the right motor with the right fan and the right Amperage ESC.

To answer your question about my batteries. I run 4s 14.8 3000 and 3300mha 40c batteries.

Currently I have that Sapac fan with Cyclone 3300KV motor and a Dynam 80A ESC to go into the Mig.

I also have a Venom F86 that will get the Change sun 10 blade fan with the Cyclone 3300KV motor and a Dynam 100A esc.

Currently the F86 has my old foam Habu fan,motor, and 60A E flight ESC installed. Havent flown it yet with this set up though.

Any other words of wisdom you care to share with me will be greatly appreciated.
Old 04-05-2012, 03:42 PM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

glad to help out. we were all new at one point :-)
Ive been flying, producing, building, selling EDF's for a long while so ive tried most everything out there. feel free to pm me anytime for answers.

heres a link to my phoenix jet. full glass and carbon fiber. the pilot was a customer and was doing his maiden test flight. this is a 70mm wemo fan on 4s. VERY FAST!

Old 04-05-2012, 03:45 PM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpw5BfQ5ahQ
Old 04-05-2012, 05:28 PM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

Holy Crap that thing is fast. Currently NONE of my edf aircraft will ever fly that fast. For that matter the fastest thing I have is a Park Zone Habu, and it probably only runs at maybe 85 0r 90mph.
Old 04-06-2012, 01:59 AM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

a stock habu motor/fan can handle 5s. you gotta change the esc of course and it'll fly a bit quicker.
Old 04-06-2012, 01:41 PM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

Flew the Mig today with the CS 10 blade fan, less the thrust tube. Got airborne in less than 100 ft with about 3/4 throttle. I was pretty impressed. But it was seriously lacking in speed. And the 10mph wind wasnt helping much either. So Im gonna fabricate another tube and see what happens. I tell ya what though with that fan in there the sound is fantastic. But what a power hog. Brought it into do a touch and go, let it roll out for about 20ft went to accelerate and the fan sounded just wrong. Thank god I have a really long runway. Taxied back to investigate. Did a WOT pull real quick and Yep the battery was nearly out of juice. I was only up for maybe 3 min 4 tops. And really never was at WOT but for maybe a total time of a full minute during the whole flight. So either i need larger MHA batteries or a fan set up that doesnt pull so much power. Running 4s 3300 40C. Ive gotten nearly double that with my Habu and had power to spare after landing. And the Batteries arent that old and always get charged on the equalizer charge setting.
Old 04-07-2012, 09:12 AM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

3-4 minutes is correct for the batts your running. As for the thrust tube, you'll need to play with output dia's. the common starting point is 80%. you increase your efflux and gain top end.


also, the manner in which the air is entering your fan is crucial. make sure the air is flowing smoothly past the jets intake all the way to the fan. make sure the fan doesnt have any disturbance between its shroud lip and the jets intake. must be SEEMLESS SMOOTH. any disturbance will kill the performance.
Old 04-09-2012, 03:22 PM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

I'm new to the hobby (i'm 15) and I'm wondering, are any of you guys using the original set up for the Mig? Are you just replacing the ESC and it gets enough thrust? Because for me, my plane has everything original and not enough thrust.
Old 04-10-2012, 04:09 PM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15


ORIGINAL: Austin M

I'm new to the hobby (i'm 15) and I'm wondering, are any of you guys using the original set up for the Mig? Are you just replacing the ESC and it gets enough thrust? Because for me, my plane has everything original and not enough thrust.
Austin,
A larger ESC may help a very little bit. But what you really need is to replace that EDF unit, the motor, and the ESC, as they are pretty much useless, at elevations much above sea level. You can get all kinds of great deals on aftermarket EDF units, motors and ESC, that will push your Mig around much better than the stock stuff. For example the EDF and motor that I have in my Mig I bought as a combo for $65. The ESC that Im using to run everything was another $60. And it works much better than the stock stuff.

The other issue you could be having is with your battery. Are you using the battery that came with the Mig? If so its pretty much garbage. You want to be running a 4S 3000mah 40C battery in that Mig. You could probably make a 4000mah battery fit in there but it will be a little tight. But the 40C rating is very important. Its how quickly the battery discharge's while in use. Your stock battery is probably only a 20C or a 25C discharge battery. This will not allow your EDF to spin up fast enough to produce enough thrust to fly. I would start with the battery first. They typically will cost depending on what you buy $35-$45 each, or more. If this doesnt work out for you. Then I would look into getting a better EDF, motor, and ESC.


Old 04-12-2012, 03:39 PM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

Thanks for your help! <div>
</div><div>My battery is only a 20C rating. It is the one that was recommended for the Mig. I think I will start with the battery suggestion and move on from there. Thanks again for you help!</div>
Old 04-13-2012, 11:48 AM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

need a better battery. also be sure to NOT keep it charged when not flying. that'll make if fly worse.
Old 04-13-2012, 12:11 PM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15


ORIGINAL: stoneenforcer

need a better battery. also be sure to NOT keep it charged when not flying. that'll make if fly worse.
So what is a good storage voltage to keep a 14.8 LIPO battery stored at for long term storage. Or better yet how long can you keep a Lipo battery stored at capacity before it starts to fail?
Old 04-18-2012, 06:03 PM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

Hey guys. Does anyone know how to take out the motor in the Mig? I was told it was held in by Rubber Cement and Screws. Any suggestions?<div>
</div>
Old 04-20-2012, 07:45 AM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15


ORIGINAL: Austin M

Hey guys. Does anyone know how to take out the motor in the Mig? I was told it was held in by Rubber Cement and Screws. Any suggestions?<div>
</div>
Well If you have the same Banana Hobby Mig 15 that I have, your EDF unit is glued into place. The only way to get it out is to pry it out. It takes a little bit of time. Grab the fan and gently work it back and forth side to side and from font to back. It will come out you just have to be patient, but it will come out.
Old 04-22-2012, 10:06 AM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

Yeah I do. Thanks!
Old 04-24-2012, 07:01 AM
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Default RE: 70mm Banana Hobby Mig 15

Well sadly my Mig 15 is out of commision. I had my very first Mid Air Collision, Monday morning. I was able to land it however, and I could possibly fix it. But it has been my experience (the little that I have with foam aircraft) that they dont fly very well after being repaired on the flying surfaces (wings etc.) But I have learned a whole bunch while experimenting with this particular airframe. Ive found a good EDF/motor/ESC combo that works very well together. I also have a good design for dimensions on a thrust tube that works well with my power plant set up. So I only have to wait a couple more pay days till I can afford to replace the RED BEAST. But I did strip the whole airframe for all of the serviceable electrics so I will have plenty of back up servos extension, pitch horns and the like.

Id like to personally thank everybody that pitched in their personal and professional information via many different threads and PMs.

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