Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Impressed is an understatement.
The vacuum formed parts are extremely well detailed, and very well done.
The tail cone has the correct afterburner nozzle sections each laid out, in an overlapping position. Nice.
The depron is all cut out with nice straight lines, no fuzzy corners. Formerss are rounded as perfect as I've seen.
Did I mention it's big!!!!!
I'll get back to that.
The kit comes with a packing list so you can recheck off each part, and figure out what each one is for. Also included is a grab bag of spare depron, just in case you screw up something, or you want to build a small flat foamy when you are done with this one.
CF rods are included for both the wing and elevator, lite ply for reinforcement of stress areas. And a piece of aluminum for the elevator pivots. See I read the manual first, so I knew what it was for. I would suggest you do the same, as it helps make a lot of sense to that pile of parts.
When you get the kit there is a manual you will need to download for the build.
It's 39 pages long, and has very nice color pictures that really help with understanding what you are doing on almost every step of the build. If you eliminated the pictures you would have about an 8 page manual, so as overwelming as all those parts seem to be, there really is not a lot involved in the build.
Also the manual lists items you need to gather to complete the bird, Items like your electronics, control rods, clevis', etc. Most of which, if you are like me, have stashed away from other builds. And the manual gives you a list of glues and such you'll need, again you probably already have this stuff if you do any building or rebuilding.

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Ok a couple of notes on required supplies.
One of the recommended glues is UHU por. When I asked for it at the LHS, I got the " Deer in the headlights" look, oh well they are all gasser fliers or truck drivers. Not to be deterred I went over to the craft department, grabbed the old lady in charge and said "What do you have that will glue foam, dry clear, be flexible, and be permanent". She didn't even blink an eye, just rattled off "what kind of foam, and what are you going to do with it?". "Ummmm, depron, and I'm building an airplane?" was my reply. She walked over to a rack of at least 50 different bottles of glues and grabbed one. "Use this, it's Beacon Craft Foam Glue." "You can wash it off with water until it sets, if it gets on your hands and drys, the only thing that will take it off is Denatured alcohol." "Now all you do is apply it to one side of the foam, let it dry and stick the 2 pieces together." "Oh, like contact cement", I said. And she said, "Yes it's a similar process, but you can also wet glue 2 pieces of foam together if you need to move them around, then just tape them into place until the glue dries, in about 15 mins. " "Ok, I'm sold"
Anyhow, I took it home and tried it out on some scrap depron, to try it out vs the Gold foam safe CA I had. Followed her directions, stuck the two pieces together, after the glue dried, and "BAM", it was like when you glue your fingers together with CA. LOL I let the test pieces of both glues sit over night to make sure both were fully dry. Destruction test followed. The CA'ed pieces were brittle and snapped on bending, plus not a 100% glue, and I did use kicker on it. I was able to get parts loose, and the CA was still tacky. Not so with the foam glue. There was no sign of it, so yes it does dry clear. And I could not get it to pull apart. Plus I could bend the depron till it snapped, but not at the glue joint. Oh and these were butt joints, and overlap joints on both. If you can find UHU, use it, if not grab some of the Beacon glue, it works.

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Ok that's about it for tonight.
Oh wait, remember I said it's big, and I would get back to it?
Take a look at this. That's from tail to the tip of the foam at the nose. And there is a 5 1/4" long exhaust nozzle, and a nose cone you need to add to that measurement.
[X(][X(][X(]
See I told you it was going to be big. Better get ahold of air traffic control when you are ready to launch this baby. It's not your everyday Park Flyer.

chippedprop

HEY Guy
I have pm'ed Ray a bunch here lately about this plane. I suggested he appoint you the North American Sales Rep. (sounds impressive ah)
I also suggested he ask if you can demo plane at the Joe Nall in march. After reading the depron thread looks as if others have the same idea. I think this plane is going to huge. I told Ray to get ready to quit the day job and build a RC factory in the backyard. LOL
I don't think he has the a total picture of how big this project will be in the World market.
He could get free pub. at Joe Nall and if it takes off ads. In AMA -Quietflyer and whatever the jet guys read-he's set. It's really exciting to follow the adventures of you 2.
This could be next-check it out www.rocketracingleague.com
Later Chip

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Chipped,
I don't think I'll make it to J/N this year. Why don't you build and fly one?
You're a lot closer.

Loubud

I'll distribute the muh ****er. Hazy has links everywhere.

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Lou,
You been hanging with Hazy at the truck stop again, haven't you.

Loubud

I don't go with him. I'm on the "clean cut" side. Sometimes I resemble a cop enough to be asked if I am.

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Well I have aprox 3 hours in the build. I have the upright fuselage done, centerline fuselage/wing completed, and the elevator braces and rod run. Not bad as I was taking photos and writing down build notes for here, at the same time.
If Ray ever gets off the beach and puts his martini down long enough to e-mail me back, I can go ahead with the construction here. I must say there's been almost no problems at all.
Anything I did run into was solved by re reading the manual, so no fault of the Mfg. More mine, as I printed out the copy of the manual on a crap printer, so the photos weren't as sharp as possible. Well I fixed that problem, I reprinted the manual at home, much better photo clarity.

Since I have to wait on Ray for the ok to continue, I'll at least let you know I decided on not going with the Thunderbird look. If you know me you know I have to be different.
I was going to do a CAF version, Confederate Air Force to those who don't know. And it appears I'm one of them. The CAF is no longer, it's now the Commemorative Air Force?
Apparently something happened between it's members and the name has changed, but not the work they do. Oh well, I'll do my own version of a CAF bird, right down to the Confederate flag.
Later

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Oh I found a picture of Ray's demo for one of the UK magazines.

Loubud

Glacier, I'm glad you posted the mag picture. I understand you fly necked.

TerryE

My Feedback: (12)

You mean without decals [X(]

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

No that's Sticks that flys with his pants down.

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Or did you hear what happened when Hazy was here?[X(]
The things he can talk you into.

cadetman

Brad

Work away

i want to see you build build Build

it will Look Excellent in Commemorative Air Force [8D]

if you have any problems PM me as it will save me reading every post and i can answer quickly,

Ray

Loubud

Nice plane Ray.

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Well Ray finally tore himself away from the beach. I now have his blessing to proceed with the build. Well at least the documentation part here.
Are you ready?

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Ok first off is locate the main lower section. Looks like a giant triangle with a bite out of the bottom. This is actually the main wings and center fuselage mid section all constructed as one piece for strength. Second locate the two carbon fiber rods, you need the longest one.
There are 2 methods of attaching the rod to the wing, surface attachment and slot attachment.
I went with the slot as it gives a cleaner finish. On the depron wing you will need to mark a line 160 mm from the trailing edge, the length of the CF rod. I marked 2 spots at the 160 mark, then layed the CF rod up against them and centered the rod on the wing. After marking the ends, I laid a straight edge along the first two marks I made and drew a line from end mark to end mark. Wala! I had a cut line. I guess there are several ways you could cut out a slot to drop the rod in, I used what I think is the most accurate. I installed a 1/8" cutting bit in a Dremel tool mounted in a router base. This way I could control the depth of the cut. Laid out a straight edge to run the Dremel up against and routed a perfectly straight and deep slot.
Cleaned out the cutting debris, laid the CF rod in and checked to be sure it was slightly below flush. Since I'm trying to be neat on this, I then laid down a piece of masking tape on either side of the slot, approx 1/8" away from it. I used wide tape, as there is a reason that I get to in a minute. Take the CF rod and lightly sand it to give the glue you are going to use something to bite into. 15 min epoxy is a must for this, as it gives you enough time to lay a bead in the slot, coat the sides, insert the CF rod,lay a bead over top of it, and squeegee it flush. Now the reason for the wide tape. It gives you a wide margin for any excess epoxy when you squeegee it.
Finally give the epoxy about 5 min or so to start to set up, then remove the tape. The epoxy will flow just enough to give you a nice clean joint.

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Next up after the epoxy is dry, is attaching the front and rear fuselage sections to the mid section. The first photo below shows you what they look like. VERY IMPORTANT ITEM, You only apply glue to the parts marked here with the red lines. Why you ask? Because if you glue more then that you will not be a happy camper later. For this part you can use the epoxy, UHU por, or the Beacon glue I'm using. Those of you with wifes, sneak into the kitchen and steal the wax paper. Rip off two sheets big enough to cover the glue areas. Lay it under the joint areas, so you don't end up gluing the bird to what ever it's laying on. Especially if you used the kitchen table like I did. LOL Anyhow, apply glue to the marked joint areas. I liked the Beacon as you apply it to one edge and let it dry. Then you slide the attaching part into place. No ooze out of glue. You need to keep these joints tight together till your glue sets up. Use masking tape to pull the two pieces together. TIP: Leave a flap of tape sticking up on one end, and fold it over on itself. Gives you something to grab onto to remove it later. Other wise you end up digging into the Depron trying to get the tape off. Do one side and then the other pulling it tight. Flip the fuselage over and do the other side too. I did the nose section first as there is a trick to installing the rear one. The rear one is a no gap fit to the mid section. And I mean no gap.
You will need to bend it slightly to get it in place. Tape it just like the front section, when you get it into place. Now take a break, go potty,smoke a cigarette, or get something to drink, while the glue dries. But before you go on your break, stand back and look how big this is going to be!!!!!!!!!

chippedprop

Later that same night we hear Glacier's wife ask, " Honey the plates same to be stuck to the kichen table. Is there something you need to tell me?"
Done that and did NOT get a t-shirt.
CP

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Well now if you are following the manual, you'll see on the wing rod install, Ray suggests laying a piece of white tape on the unslotted portion of the wing. Why? Because it hides the rod location on the top side of the wing. I plan on painting my version so I left it off. That and I couldn't find the white electrical tape he suggested to use.
Heck I didn't even know it came in white.
If you are not going to paint yours, go ahead and lay down the tape, if you can find a white roll.
ITEM TO REMEMBER: The stock CG location is 100 mm from the leading edge of the wing. Why do I mention this? If you vary from the stock build and equipment, like battery size. You may have to do some modding to get your CG correct. Since I am varying mine, I'll let you know what was involved.

chippedprop

Well so far so good! He has all ten fingers - no blood and none glued togather.

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Just to be safe on mine, after the glue was set up on the two joint areas, I removed the tape and ran a thin bead of glue across each joint and squeegeed it flush. Since I had to wait for the glue to set up on one side to do the other, I snuck ahead and found the two parts that make up the vertical part of the fuselage. I went ahead and glued and taped them together. And then finished up the seams on the other side of the horizontal fuselage.
Next up is gluing the four 12x6 depron strips to the bird's horizontal fuselage. Again for this I used the beacon glue. Since this glue has to dry first I went ahead and glued them up first.
For me It was easier to hold the four strips flat and together, and run a coat of glue on the four edges at once. That way I only had to clean two edges of excess glue. While the glue on those are drying, I located the two tail braces and applied glue to them too, as the manual shows gluing them in place while you are working on the strips. Pretty easy to see where they go, by the manual.

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Ok back to installing the 12x6 strips. For me the manual got a little confusing on the location of one set of the strips. But looking at the pictures I was able to determine where they needed to go. TIP: As the fuselage lays now, with the exposed slotted CF rod up, this is actually the bottom of the bird. You'll need to remember or mark it as such, as you'll be flipping the fuselage over a couple of times, and if you forget you will not be happy with the results.
Flip the fuselage over so that the top side is now up. At the very rear is a tongue that sticks out at the center. On each side of this, where it meets the rest of the fuselage is one of the points you will need to draw a line from. The other is where the wing itself meets the fuselage portion of the mid section. Simple enough, draw a line from point to point on each side. Flip the fuselage over, and now you do the other side. Whoa, don't go jumping ahead, it's not the same as the top side. The rear marks are the same spot. The fronts are not. Where the front section of the fuselage joins the mid section you need to follow one edge of the front section to where the starts the point of the nose. It curves in from the mid section and then forms the shape of the nose. From that point measure in 25mm, on each side. Now just like the top, draw a line from front to rear marks. Since this side was up I glued my strips on it first. The inside of the strip lays on the line. Since the Beacon glue is like a contact adhesive, I lined up the rear mark, pulled the strip tight and laid it down on the line. Used my hand to press it into place and did the opposite side. As mine was done, no waiting for glue to set up, I flipped over the fuselage and did the other side. The top side strips need to be cut off flush with the leading edge of the wing.
You'll see on mine I didn't get around to it yet.

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Thanks Chip.
IMPORTANT TIP: If you are using wife's table, do it when she's not home. And if something happens, blame it on one of the dogs. Heck, she still doesn't know I used her iron to reshrink the covering on my F20.