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Any one know build intake lip?

Old 04-03-2008, 12:19 AM
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didiknight
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Default Any one know build intake lip?

i want build a intake lip for my DS-30, does any know how to build it?

Thanks




Old 04-03-2008, 01:05 AM
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tIANci
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

Some carve it out of a balsa block and slowly shape it. In return for the tip you need to tell us which amazing plane you are now working on!
Old 04-03-2008, 03:03 AM
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didiknight
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

We want improve the thrust range and give our f-104 and f-16 more power. So i need to know how to build the lips for the DS-30....

Very thanks for your tips...
Old 04-03-2008, 03:09 AM
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

Didi - you still need to mold it eventually I guess, when is your F104 rolling out for us the privileged few to test? Of course we will pay for it!
Old 04-03-2008, 06:52 AM
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didiknight
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

That's a good idea... I will let hobbist to test it ....
Old 04-03-2008, 08:06 AM
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

You have my mobile number and address right? Hahahaa ...
Old 04-03-2008, 09:26 AM
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

I don't get it, intake lip inside the fuselage?
I'll do the F-16 anyhow
Old 04-03-2008, 09:36 AM
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

Clement ... sssshhhhhh ... they are testing the power for the new airliner, it will have working lights, inboard out board ailerons, Krueger flaps, triple slotted flaps and full retracts.
Old 04-03-2008, 10:49 AM
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didiknight
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

Wow~That's really a bit hard... :-p .... maybe you can see it on our jet planes....
Old 04-04-2008, 01:04 AM
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didiknight
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

I have got a reply form there official
Here is the pics


I don't know why they reduced the inlet area and give it a -4 inward degree . Most of the intake lips are enlarge the inlet area which let it looks like a pipe socket but not to decrease it...

WHy....?? Maybe have some relationship with the inflow speed of the EDF?
Old 04-04-2008, 09:20 AM
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

Wow... think I'll pass that one
too much work[&:]
Old 04-04-2008, 10:08 AM
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?


ORIGINAL: didiknight

I don't know why they reduced the inlet area and give it a -4 inward degree . Most of the intake lips are enlarge the inlet area which let it looks like a pipe socket but not to decrease it...

WHy....?? Maybe have some relationship with the inflow speed of the EDF?
Yes.

The fan swept area (FSA) is a measurement of the the inside diameter of the fan shroud minus the motor center body.

When you put an inlet lip on the fan, the inlet lip area is larger than the FSA, which reduces efficiency. This is due to conversion.

When you reduce the diameter of a pipe, the fluid (air, in this case) speeds up and pressure is reduced. When you enlarge the diameter of a pipe, the fluid slows down and pressure increases. Every time this happens, the fluid velocity (read: thrust) goes down.

So, the inlet lip is reduced in size so it's closer in diameter to the FSA, which preserves efficiency and keeps the air moving smoothly through the tube.
Old 04-04-2008, 12:37 PM
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?


So you are saying that the -4 degrees inlet diameter is better than a 100% to 120% FSA inlet with a large radius bell mouthed intake ? There will be no flow seperation & turbulance as the air is entering a 40,000 to 60,000 rpm ducted fan right behind the -4 degrees radiused inlet ?
I was taught inlets larger. Outlets can be smaller. Depending on speed to thrust trade offs.

Rich
Old 04-04-2008, 12:55 PM
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wsmalley
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

One solution: I used 1 ply ring(1/8th) just big enough to slide over the fan housing. Next, or second, cut flush to the inside of the housing. Glue together. Build up with balsa-I used 1/2" and sand to desired shape. Best to secure the ring, first time I did not, ran motor, motor ingested inlet!
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Old 04-05-2008, 08:47 PM
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didiknight
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

Thank you very much, i will do an experiment and put results at there.
Old 04-06-2008, 02:23 AM
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

ORIGINAL: cyclops2


So you are saying that the -4 degrees inlet diameter is better than a 100% to 120% FSA inlet with a large radius bell mouthed intake ? There will be no flow seperation & turbulance as the air is entering a 40,000 to 60,000 rpm ducted fan right behind the -4 degrees radiused inlet ?
I was taught inlets larger. Outlets can be smaller. Depending on speed to thrust trade offs.

Rich
If you were to measure the inlet diameter in the drawing provided, then compare it the the FSA of the fan, I'll bet you'd find the inlet is 100% FSA. If you look the -4 degree slope follows the shape of the spinner. What were you taught about area-ruled ducts?
Old 04-08-2008, 02:45 AM
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didiknight
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?




we made a lip for ds-30 for test.
it added 200g thrust range for this EDF...
I still working on other style inlet lips, wait for my news.

By the way, Anyone know how big the thrust range can add on it when use minifan's lips?
I have heard that Minifan's lip also fit for this EDF and want know how is it.
Old 04-08-2008, 01:45 PM
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?


ORIGINAL: didiknight
we made a lip for ds-30 for test.
it added 200g thrust range for this EDF...
I still working on other style inlet lips, wait for my news.

By the way, Anyone know how big the thrust range can add on it when use minifan's lips?
I have heard that Minifan's lip also fit for this EDF and want know how is it.
Expect a 30% loss in thrust for fans without a good inlet lip.
Old 04-08-2008, 02:40 PM
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Gordito Volador
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

Dan,

How about bellmouths, or is the inlet lip the only way to do this correctly?

Regards, Bill
Old 04-08-2008, 03:34 PM
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DanSavage
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

Hi Bill,

I was mainly referring to any type of inlet ramp. As long as there's something there that allows the air to smoothly enter the fan.

Dan
Old 04-08-2008, 04:12 PM
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Gordito Volador
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

Thanks Dan, I'm going to start building my SU-27 really soon. But first I have to do some inlets for another project.

Regards, Bill
Old 04-08-2008, 10:06 PM
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tIANci
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

Dan - you are really speaking Greek! Hehehehe ... anyways, its enlightening. So the loss can be as muchas 30% ... would th intake lip help if the fan unit is inside the fuse but it does not use any intake ducting? What I mean is that it sits snug but then the housing is still a square lip, might rounding it up help even if its a snug fit? I hope you get what I mean.
Old 04-09-2008, 01:35 PM
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

ORIGINAL: tIANci

Dan - you are really speaking Greek! Hehehehe ... anyways, its enlightening. So the loss can be as muchas 30% ... would th intake lip help if the fan unit is inside the fuse but it does not use any intake ducting? What I mean is that it sits snug but then the housing is still a square lip, might rounding it up help even if its a snug fit? I hope you get what I mean.
LOL!

If I understand you correctly, you're asking about mounting the fan inside the fuse without ducting, but with the sides of the fan shroud touching the sides of the fuselage.

Yes, having an inlet lip on the intake will help, but only until the air gets past it. After that, it'll do two things unless there is some sort of ducting:

1) Immediately become turbulent.
2) Slow down due to expansion.

For an example, make a tube (cylinder) and a cone out of paper. Blow air through the tube. It should exit as fast as it entered. Now, blow air through the small end of the cone. What happened to the air as it exited the big end of the cone?

Now, because the fan is mounted fairly close to the fuse walls, it will suck in the air and blow it out the tailpipe, but not with as much thrust or velocity as it could with a well-designed inlet lip and duct.

I'm building an F-106. With the fan mounted in a test stand using a MF480 inlet lip, it pushes the air out the tailpipe at 160mph. Mounted inside the airplane, it's pushing the air out the tailpipe at 150mph, for a loss of only 7%. If I had a loss of 30%, it would only exit the tailpipe at 112mph. Big difference.
Old 04-09-2008, 02:25 PM
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?


ORIGINAL: Gordito Volador

Thanks Dan, I'm going to start building my SU-27 really soon. But first I have to do some inlets for another project.

Regards, Bill
Hi Bill,

That kit has become a collector's item.

Dan
Old 04-09-2008, 06:05 PM
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PhilLin
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Default RE: Any one know build intake lip?

ORIGINAL: didiknight

i want build a intake lip for my DS-30, does any know how to build it?

Thanks

I found a quick and easy way to build the lip from layers of 3mm thick depron strips. For the DS-30, two layers of Depron and one layer of 1.5mm balsa at the inner most ID to butt up agains the carbon shroud should do it. You can see some photos of details in my thread at www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=722722.

Phil

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