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AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Old 02-13-2011, 04:10 AM
  #76  
Greg Covey
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Richard,

In the photos below, you can see that if the cylinder is remounted 180 degrees, the inside air nipple will stick up, not to the side. This nipple will then hit the strut.

Are you saying that the plunger end of the cylinder can be turned without issue?
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Old 02-13-2011, 11:07 AM
  #77  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Here is a picture of a strut and retract that I pulled right out of the bag.
As you can see, the down nipple clears the strut.
the up nipple goes out the side.
This is 100% stock with no modification.

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Old 02-13-2011, 01:34 PM
  #78  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Richard,

It appears that the missing piece of information here is that the air up / air down retracts have been modified from what you sent me. Hopefully, it was my original discovery that created the change. I'm not sure why you couldn't just say they have been modified to fit the Rebel retract.

As for the nose strut length, my modified version has been completed. I drilled new holes and tapped some larger 8-32 set screws in the strut. Some brass tubing was used to replace the original shim as the spring chamber is larger than the top swivel mount.

Although shortened by 1/2", I still have a positive angle of attack but it is much more reasonable. As noted before, the batteries are installed to properly weigh down the nose.

It's time to make the retracts work!
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Old 02-13-2011, 04:09 PM
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

"Are you saying that the plunger end of the cylinder can be turned without issue?"


The cap on the end of the cylinder can be rotated 1/4 turn for the nipple to stick out the side.
Old 02-14-2011, 04:47 AM
  #80  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Ok, thanks, Richard. It appears that the original air up /air down cylinders now come ready to mount in the Rebel.
Old 02-19-2011, 01:33 PM
  #81  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

When hooking up the retracts, I found that a short Robart air cylinder fit nicely in the empty nose area below the battery deck. With all the servo control wires by the receiver, I didn't want to mount the air cylinder in its normal spot. Recall that I am using Air up / Spring Down retracts so I needed to purchase a Robart 1-way control valve ([link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJZE9&P=7]#186[/link]).

After first mounting the 1-way control valve and sub-micro servo to a small piece of light plywood, it was then tested and tucked away in the main hatch area. I secured the board with some servo tape and a single screw. Mounting the control board in this area kept most of the air lines in the same area with the exception of one line to the air cylinder.

The three retracts seemed to work nicely so it was on to the nose wheel steering...
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Old 02-21-2011, 02:47 PM
  #82  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

The hardware for nose steering is not included in the kit so I used some steel cable, brass retainers, and a couple clevises.

Since battery space is limited in the Rebel, I decided to mount my Futaba S3010 High Torque nose steering servo inverted. This is made easy by swapping the metal eyelets that come with the servo with small T-nuts. The servo can then be screwed in place from the top of the model after first installing the arm.

The result is a clear battery bay and a straight run for the nose steering cables.

In the last photo, I ran the cables through the retract steering arm but had not yet secured them with brass retainers.

Next up...my battery options and CG testing.
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:10 PM
  #83  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Reversing the servo was a brilliant idea!
Thanks!
Old 02-21-2011, 08:34 PM
  #84  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Here are some of my mods I did to allow the XPS Dynamax Extreme to fit. The front spar could not go through, motor is in the way. Modified front spar, also inserted graphite rod in alum spar tube to add strenghth. Mounded the receiver in the very front, also located the nose steering servo from the bottom. Should have mine ready to fly by Sunday. Feel free to ask any questions.
Bob
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:32 PM
  #85  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Lookin' great guys!
Old 02-22-2011, 04:16 PM
  #86  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Hi Bob,

Good luck on your maiden flight!

Let us know where your CG ended up in relation to the three dots on the fuselage bottom.
Old 02-24-2011, 04:21 PM
  #87  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

My battery options for the Rebel are shown below.

The two FlightPower 6s 3350mAh packs fit great and were what I used in my R/C show demos last season.

The Enerland 6s 4350mAh packs were what I wanted to use because they propelled my Aeronaut Panther to about 160mph and are very hearty packs. Unfortunately, they don't fit.

The three Blue Lipo 4s 4AH packs were from my Cessna Citation (Hero 100) project and fit perfectly in the Rebel. Even with these three 16oz packs installed as far forward as possible, bottom photo, my CG ends up being very tail-heavy. I marked were the Rebel balances using the green 3M masking tape.

I am ready to move the Rx. battery and CC BEC regulator out of the way, to get the packs even more forward, but I will wait until I hear about Bob's results.
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Old 02-27-2011, 02:13 PM
  #88  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

I moved the Rx. battery and CCBEC Pro to the back of the cockpit and re-mounted the nose steering servo on spacers so that it dropped down about 1/2". This allowed me to place one of the Blue Lipo packs right up into the nose and slide the other two packs forward.

Even with these modifications, the CG only moved to the edge of the tape as shown.

Hopefully, Bob is having better luck with the CG.
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Old 03-02-2011, 04:25 PM
  #89  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

The final step of the assembly was to mount the top hatch. I used a hardwood tongue on the front and a Best Hatch Latch ([link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/hatchlatch.htm?pSearchQueryId=1213193]HLRE001[/link]) from Hobby Lobby to secure the back. Normally, the hatch will not need to be accessed but it is nice to allow it to open for display.

As for the CG, it took another 16oz of lead in the nose to properly balance the model. I don't intend to add this amount of dead weight so before I start to remove the rudder servos and linkage in the tail, I will consult with my AMP'D Team members for alternatives.
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Old 03-02-2011, 05:48 PM
  #90  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

No flight yet. ESC died. Have replacement, installing it in the morning. Wings are near completed. Locked LE in place. Re-did front retract valve and servo so now my 10S 5000ma packs fits. Will do CG check soon. It will be ready to fly soon. S/B in the low 80's by Sat.
Bob
Old 03-06-2011, 10:44 PM
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

VERTIGO Rebel Taxi Video
This is the first roll out and taxi test for the VERTIGO Rebel XPS Dynamax/Hacker Power!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK5_6vdItQo
Old 03-10-2011, 02:29 PM
  #92  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Had to modify to get 12S (two 6S 5000 ma XPS LiPo) to fit and a CC160 ESC. To get within CG.  She flies this Sat. morning around 9:00 AM.
Bob
Old 03-12-2011, 04:12 PM
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

The VERTIGO Rebel #1 was lost this morning in Mesa Arizona in a controlled crash landing.
Model pilot condition is unknown at this time, but it appeared that any injuries were not life threatening.
"The flight video and ESC logs will be analyzed to determine the cause of the crash and we will know the
performance data." Said Richard with VERTIGO Aircraft Development.

The first consensus [/i]among eye witnesses discussed the possibility the the jet was too nose heavy. 
   Roll out from the runway was smooth and progressive with a slow rotation until airborne.
"The aircraft was very stable and predictable with no adverse yaw" Said Bob Ruff principle test pilot and builder.
Their also may have been some difficulty with sufficient airflow to the XPS/Hacker Dynamax fan.
After trying to maintain an increase in altitude by forcing full up elevator, the Rebel settled with a belly landing in the desert
just east of the Superstition Airfield in Mesa. Although damaged beyond repair from the landing among rocks and foliage,
The power system and electronics suffered little damage.
Rebel #2 is already being assembled for an upcoming flight in a few weeks.
Rumors are that #2 may be powered by a 100mm Hacker Tornado outrunner on 10s or similar power system.
This version is expected to shave about 4 pounds off the maximum take off weight. 
"Alot was learned from this flight, this experience will result in an even more improved Rebel"

Old 03-13-2011, 04:05 AM
  #94  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Richard,

Thanks for the update. Sorry to hear about the crash because I know how much work goes into building a Rebel.

The comment, "the jet was too nose heavy" caught my eye. If Bob's Rebel was balanced on the center dot, then perhaps my current balance is ok and no modifications are needed. Let us know what your findings are on the balance point.

Regards.
Old 03-13-2011, 05:32 AM
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Rebel #2 will be balanced at the forward spar for the next flight.
Old 03-13-2011, 08:13 PM
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Airborne Picture
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:25 PM
  #97  
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Using this [link=http://adamone.rchomepage.com/cg_calc.htm]Aircraft Center of Gravity Calculator[/link], I put in my measured numbers for the Rebel dimensions and came up with a resultant CG of 10.5" from Wing Root LE. Depending upon where you determine the root tip to be, Richard's original CG mark is correct. This is marked on the model with the center of three dots.

Further, due to the swept wing, changes in CG are less critical. Armed with this information, my plan is to keep the CG where I last documented the change and keep my scheduled test fly in 6 weeks on Memorial Weekend.
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Old 04-17-2011, 04:42 PM
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Interesting....
Does this mean I have been vindicated?
Old 04-18-2011, 08:27 AM
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

There is certainly evidence to indicate that Bob's crash may be due to other reasons.

The counter-balanced elevators on this design are typically less effective than conventional stabs with elevators so I would recommend that you have a considerable throw on the initial flight and just tone it down with expo and dual rates.

Any progress on the second build?
Old 04-18-2011, 04:43 PM
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Default RE: AirShowRC VERTIGO Rebel

Progress is being made.   Had the CG checked where I work (Boeing Aircraft) to double check me(Aero Engineer). The CG needs to be on the forward spar. The marks on the fuselage makes the plane too nose heavy.  On the video you can see the amount of up need to maintain somewhat level flight, about 3/4 up. Also going with 4" fan, 127mm fan could not breath, inlet is too small but perfect for 4"(100 mm). Working to have it flying by the middle of May. I'll keep you posted of progress.
Bob

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