Nate-RCU

Just finished putting this little beauty together and tonight was the maiden....................Not good. First I built as per plans with the only mod being some 1/16 cf rods on the leading and trailing edges. As per the manual the cg should be 50 - 60 mm from the leading edge. Has anyone built this plane and found that with the supplied ips motor and using a 27o mah nicad pack that the cg is no where near that. I would have to add almost 2 ounces to the nose to get it at even 60mm!!

I did...................and the thing was a dog barely taking off from hand. Does this motor have the stones to pull out vertically from your hand? Mine doesn't. It seems to be either way underpowered or a heavy plane. Again it was built to plans with the one mod. Is there a better setup for this plane??

Thanks for any replies!

Regards,

Nate

Matt Kirsch

My Feedback: (21)

Well, firstly, you're expecting waaaaaaaaay too much from this plane. It flies on the wing, and does not fly very fast. It won't climb straight up out of your hand, or even at a 45 degree angle. That's how the plane was designed to fly. It's a "slow flier" not an unlimited vertical 3D ship.

The most likely reason for the lackluster performance, even below what it should do, is the extra weight. Two ounces on a plane that's only supposed to weigh 7 ounces is a killer. Since an ounce of extra weight in the tail generally takes at least four ounces on the nose to balance, I suspect that you're 1/2 ounce heavy on the tail. Not difficult to do, if you go crazy with the epoxy, or use larger servos than what are recommended. The plane was designed on the philosophy of "bend, not break." Reinforcing things will only serve to cause the next weakest part of the plane to give way the next time it's stressed.

You can put a bigger motor and a bigger battery on the plane, but all that will do is make the plane even heavier, and cause the wing to snap. I would recommend that you go over the plane with a fine-toothed comb and make sure EVERYTHING is stock. Look for excessive gobs of dried glue just hanging along for the ride. Eliminate the rear carbon fiber wing reinforcement; it's probably much heavier than necessary, and is dragging you down more than it's bracing you up. Leave the front carbon, of course. It's helping correct the tail-heavy condition and is reinforcing the wing where it needs it most. Hog out the battery compartment and move the pack forward. Eliminate the heavy plastic battery door.

If you can eliminate the two ounces of extra weight, plus the weight that caused you to add those two ounces in the first place, you'll be a whole bunch lighter, and a whole bunch happier with the plane. It still won't be a 3D plane, but it'll be nice for cruising around on a quiet evening in the back yard.

Nate-RCU

Thanks Matt,


I'll try to eliminate all the extra weight and see how much it weighs afterward. Just for fun I took off 1ounce and tried to fly her and although it was tail heavy, it got airborne!

Is the landing gear really necessary or will I break alot of props??

Thanks,


Nate

Nate-RCU

Hey Matt,

You were right!!

I removed everything including the landing gear and battery cover.The final weight...........8 3/8 ounces. It flew like a dream.Flew it around the back yard for almost 12 min's and crashed about 6 times. These things get slammed to the ground with wind but are so stable in the calm. I had to hog out the battery compartment and put the battery forward with the end underneath the motor to get proper CG, BUT NO EXTRA WEIGHT.

Thanks for the advice

Regards

Nate

ElectRick

My Feedback: (2)

I had similar balance problems and lack of power on my Pico FD too. I'm an experienced RC'er, so I knew it wasn't from building too heavy. Had to add about 1.5 oz of lead under the motor to balance it, and performance suffered for it.
I solved the problem by substituting the IPS motor/gb for a Dual IPS motor/gb. The added weight up front balanced it better while giving it the power it should have had from the beginning. It handles breezes much better now, and has enough power to do more than get out of it's own way when necessary. Total added weight was just the weight of the extra little IPS motor. I switched to a small 2S Lipo battery too, to make up for the loss of duration.

If you're going to have to add weight, it might as well be USEFUL weight.

Rick

Nate-RCU

Electrick,

It's good to know That I was not the only one with some weight/cg issues. After removing all non essential weight I got it down to 8 3/8 ounces and since have had many flights. Some good and certainly some bad. It really doesn't like any wind but still flies great. It makes you a bit cocky in that I fly it in my back yard between the obstacles........clothesline, kids pool,houses ect. I've been very lucky as any flight draws out the neighborhood kids which has made me stop the backyardflights all together and only fly this one at the local field with more room for safety. I was never a rudder only fan but since this.......I'm changed. I only wish that it had more power like yours. The only mod I kept was the leading edge 1/16 carbon fibre rod. It is the only reason the wing is still together. I have honestly hit to many things for it to have survived without it. I never gave these electrics a chance in the past being a die hard...SLIMER. I've never had more fun!!

I still don't know much of the motor/ baterry setups for different types of planes and I am a bit nervous of the lipos.I've read alot of threads on that issue and have yet to give them a try. I'm sure It will only be a matter of time before I want some faster and longer run time on these cool little electrics. You know I have had an E-STARTER and GWS PICO CUB for over a years and they are still new in the box. I may try those lippos on one of those

With your non stock setup..what is the flight ready weight............and have you had any problems with the wings flexing to the point of snapping with the increased weight??


Any pictures??


Regards,


Nate

_Tommy D

My Feedback: (20)

At a honest 13ozs mine has become my no-frills wind beater. Flys ok, rudder a little sluggish at low prop speed.

Powered by a GWS 350C and a 2S1020 lipo

Nate-RCU

Now that's a great paint job. The wheel pants look similar to the Stutka.........very nice.

I see you added some leading edge strength. On mine , it has proven to be an absolute must as my wings have attempted to fold while diving.

At 13 oz's and the 350, does the weight give it more stability because the stock setup does not like wind!

Nice looking bird

Regards,

Nate

_Tommy D

My Feedback: (20)

Nate

Thanks for the compliments.

Like most I struggled with the CG and had to move it well forward.

Ala Slow Stick Style I build LE and TE wing supports. They are made from carbon fiber and joined with brass. I also glassed both sides of the wing. It’s rock steady but with the dihedral and under camber not exactly conducive to flying inverted. Also the wing has a good deal of drag, so it’s not as fast as a similarly powered warbird.

A balsa fire-wall and glassing all the rest of the foam was a must. This bird has hit the earth pretty darn hard when trying to fly inverted at low altitude. Has never suffered a scratch and just tosses the prop off with the home made propsaver.

I ditched the wheel pants after the first few flights as they offered a lot of drag as well.

All in all it’s a lot of fun to fly in the wind and if it goes down well it’s not exactly a ALF, so I don’t care 2 much.

Thinking of building another wing for it, but right now I’m involved in this project:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=225

Best Regards

Tommy

P.S. Oh yes it does offer some wind support. I have flow it in winds gusting to 20MPH. Granted it was white knuckle time but I got it back in 1 piece!

Nate-RCU

Now that's nice Tommytorino!!

You must show me how you go about glassing one of these GWS models. At that weight with glassing and both wing suppotrs and brass connectors.............your a skilled builder.

My building is less than great but my flying is even worse.I love to fly and take alot of risky manoeuvers and more than not results in a garbage bag dance despite my years in this damn hobby.lol

Seriously , could you take some pics of your glassed fuse and wings....I am very interested. I will take a picture of my pico stick fd but the camera seems to make even the most banged up plane look relatively good.

These weightless rudder only planes are a handful for me as I like to try to fly with the same vigor as my balsa slimers.

I've never glassed a plane and would like to get some insight

Thanks and regards

Nate

_Tommy D

My Feedback: (20)

Nate

Sorry for the delay. Here is your best source for glassing a GWS Bird:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t=glassing+gws

Work has been killer. Let me run.

Best of Luck!

Tommy