Advice please
 

My apologies if it puts anyone out-I originally posted this in the 'Beginners' forum, but looking at the posts, most seem to be about non-electric, so I thought I would 're-post' it here-My question is specifically about electric so it should really go on this form I suppose? I wrote:

Returning to the hobby after many years I was, like a lot of people seduced by the PZ Mustang-After reading all the posts I realise now it was probably the wrong model to start on. My local club have kindly offered to give me some training but I wondered if anyone could recommend an inexpensive 'trainer' that either has all the electrics compatible with the PZ transmitter as part of the kit (I'm not afraid to build if that is less expensive route to ARF/RTF or could you list what I would need to put in a trainer? One of the reasons I was attracted to the Mustang was that the electrics could be used in another model. If this is so what would I need? Is it just literally a matter of taking all the electrics out of Mustang and installing them in the trainer?
Any advice greatly appreciated-I really don't want to go out and smash this PZ Mustang up first flight (who does) plus my wife will say 'told you so!!'. I have to say, I'm very occasionally tempted, when the weather is 'gentle' to just go to the nearest long grass/ young wheat field and go for it on my own, but having waited 6 months from buying the P51 just before Christmas, I try to curb my enthusiasm until I can get some experienced assistance or sort out a trainer as per my question above? I'm just burning to get in the air!!
Thanks in advance
Adrian

RE: Advice please
 

The Mustang, like almost all HZ and PZ planes, uses electronics that are not industry standard. (The Typhoon is the only exception that I know of). Although you can take all of the electronics out of the Mustang and use them in a kit, you may be better off buying an RTF for now and then flying the Mustang once you feel that you are ready for it.

You don't indicate what your previous experience is, nor how long ago you flew planes, therefore its a little difficult to know what to recommend for you. If you were starting from the very beginning, and you want to go with RTF, the best plane to start with is the Slow-V. A step up would be the pusher planes like the Aerobird Challenger, T-Hawk, EasyStar, etc. If you feel that these would be too easy for you, then go for the J3Cub or the Decathlon.

RE: Advice please
 

Best thing would be for an experienced flier to trim out the mustang and stand beside you for the first flight. The plane is very docile when set up for training. What were you flying when you were into it? Seems one of the biggest problems the newcomers have is trying to fly an out of trim plane. For instance it rolls off to the left at launch and they don't know what to do. Trimmed out makes life a lot easier

RE: Advice please
 

If you have an instructor, follow his/her advice as to what to get as your
plane. Getting info here is good, but discuss it with the instructor before
you buy.

RTF, ARF or KIT? What does this mean?

An RTF, Ready-To-Fly, typically requires virtually no building. Everything
is built. You attach the wing and perhaps the tail and you are done.
Typical investment of time is 15 minutes to 2 hours. The Aerobird
Challenger is a good example of an RTF plane.
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=HBZ3500
RTFs ALWAYS include an installed radio system an may also include the
battery and charger.

ARF vs kit. How are they different? Depends on your definition.

ARFs and kits always require you to buy and install the electronics.
However some of the makers, such as Mountain Models and GWS,
offer select packages that include the kit and the electronics. You still
have to assemble/build, but all the guess work is taken out of what
electronics to buy. This makes it very easy for the first time builder
to get it right. The radio itself is usually not included in these
"complete packages"

Most wood KITS are a box of sticks and sheet parts that are cut from larger
sheets. You glue them together to form the structure then you cover it with
heat shrink film, some other covering, or paint the finished structure.
Build time could run 10-30 hours including gluing, covering and fitting out
with
the electronics. The Mountain Models Switchback would be an example.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/switchback.php

As an example, Mountain Models wood kits, are typically very complete and
often include the motor, the hardware and the covering material. For some
people, kit building is as much or more fun than flying the planes. If you
want to tackle your first wood kit, Mountain kits have an outstanding
reputation for ease and completeness. This thread talks about their planes:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295225

Wood ARFs are typically kits that are already built and covered into major
structures such as fuselage, wings, tail, etc. Here you are doing final
assembly. The Ascent is a good example.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=EFL1075
Typical build time is in the 3-10 hour range. Much less time and
much less skill is required. Then you install the electronics.
Here are some examples from Great Planes:

All foam kits, in my opinion, are more similar to ARFs than they are to wood
kits. They typically consist of large molded pieces that glue or friction
fit together. typical is 3-10 hours to complete. The Graupner Tipsey is a
good example.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/tipsy.htm
Some foam kits call for covering but the Tipsy, for example, does not.
When required, covering can often be done with tape which can be very easy
for the new builder. So I consider most foam kits to be more ARF than kit.
Multiplex and GWS kits fall into this kit/ARF class and are usually very
complete. As a first step from an RTF, these can be very good choices.

Foam/wood kits are likely to require some stick and sheet assembly, but
typically much less work than an all wood kit. The Mountain Models
SmoothE is a good example.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/smoothe.php
The fuselage is wood but the wing is foam. Very easy for the first time
builder to be successful.

There are many other brands that provide very high quality products. I use
these companies as examples because I often recommend their planes.


SPACE

How much space do you have for flying? If you have totally clear space of
at least 600'X600', about 9 square acres, approx 4-6 6 square
football/soccer fields, then I can recommend one class of plane. Call this
class 1 - CL1

If your space is more like 200X200 (one square acre) then a different plane
is in order. Call this class 2 - CL2
If it is less than that, different again. This we will call this class 3 -
CL3

These are my own designations and are based on my subjective ranking of the
space a new flyer should have when learning on his own. An experienced
flyer can fly faster planes in smaller spaces, but a new flyer wants to have
more
space so you are not in a constant state of panic trying to turn. Now, you
can get above the edges of the field and expand your space, but if you lose
control, you drop in woods, on top of kids or smash someone's
windshield. If that windshield is in a car is traveling down a road when
you hit the windshield, you could cause an accident or worse.

So much for space. You get the idea.

I don't recommend pretty planes as first planes. They are too easy to
break, too hard to fix and look bad in short order. So you won't see any
especially pretty or true scale planes. Make one of those your second or
third plane.

I don't recommend two channel R/T electrics, so you won't find any on
the list. If you want one of these, I would suggest the Firebird series
from
HobbyZone. They can be very easy to fly and can be a lot of fun, but they
can also be very easy to lose. You should plan to fly them in dead calm air
when you are first starting.

I feel a high wing three channel R/E/T plane is your best choice for a first
plane. R/E/T will require a little more learning than the two channel R/E
planes but is a better choice as a first plane, in my opinion. These use
the same control inputs as more advanced planes and can be flown in
more wind once you have mastered them in calm conditions.

Below I list electric planes for beginners. Some come ready to fly, some are
almost ready to fly (add your own radio gear) and some are kits. All of them
are electric. If you are looking for your first plane, you should find
something here to peak your interest.

If you are totally new to RC Flying, this article may be helpful.


Six Keys to Success for new e-flyers
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355208


READY TO FLY STARTER PLANES - Electric Parkflyers
No building - they practically fly right out of the box
These also glide well so you can thermal soar
with them under the right conditions.


Slow-V from Parkzone - $140 -
I have flown the slo-V. My RTF of choice for small spaces.
Best flown in still to under 5 mph breeze. This is the best choice for
people who only have a small space to fly or who have an indoor
place to fly, such as a large gym or similar space.
http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...p?prod=PKZ1300
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_20...tm.htm#2089493
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=426
Video
http://users.cwnet.com/dhsc19/Slo_V_Aerobatics.wmv
Night fly module on a Slo-V
http://rc-galaxy.com/messageboard/mb...ViewMsg&num=-8

T-Hawk - RTF - Excellent Value - $150-170
I have flown the T-Hawk. Excellent first plane.
Comes with extra wing, tail and battery
Flies well and stands up to hard landings
Can be flown on 27 MHz or 72 MHz
http://www.toytx.com/thawk3chrtf.html
T-Hawk - Without Radio - add your radio and receiver
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/wittran.html
T-Hawk Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ighlight=THawk
Videos
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/thawkvideos.html

Easy Star - RTF - $170
I have flown the Easy Star - Great plane for new flyers!
Believe this goes easily back in the box to keep in the car
Super tough foam. Comes with 72 MHz radio in the US.
Good parkflyer and a good glider
Radio in RTF package can be used to fly other planes
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240025.asp
Easy Star - ARF - Add you own radio gear
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240009.asp
Build Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350408
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=459096
Videos
http://plawner.org/video/easygo.wmv
http://plawner.org/video/easystar.wmv
Mods, upgrades and more
http://www.mpx-easystar.de/
Adding ailerons
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...8&goto=newpost
Travel Box
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...5&goto=newpost

Aerobird Challenger - RTF Electric - $110 -
I started on an Aerobird RTF. I have over 600 flights on my Aerobirds. I
also thermal and slope soar this plane. Flies well and stands up to hard
landings.

Their add on fun accessories for night flying, air to air combat and drop
module add to the fun! Great keep in the car plane - take off the wing and
it goes
back in the box fully assembled. Most can't do that!
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_planes_h...challenger.htm
Review
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Disco...ID=1289#Page01
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147621
Video
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/aerobird_video.html
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_videos/a...nger_loops.wmv

Hobbico Sky Fly - $100
I haveflown this one personally. About the best landing gear and ground
handling of the planes I list here
NOTE: Radio range is only 500 feet. This is adequate if you are careful
but about 1/4 of the range of the others listed here.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXKLV7&P=ML
Video
http://video1.hobbico.com/gallery/hc...961-deluxe.mpg
Review
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=489248
Discussion thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t=493271&pp=15
Recommended wing reinforcement by mdp17681
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...8&postcount=16


ESSENTIAL ADD-ONS AN POINTS TO CONSIDER

When evaluating costs, add the following items to your list.

For the Aerobird and the Sky Fly
2 Spare wings ($25) and 1-2 battery packs ($20-$30 each)

The T-Hawk comes with spare wing, tail and two battery packs,
so factor that into the price and you will see it is closer in price
than it first appears. You might wish to add a 3rd battery pack.

For the Slo-V, two extra props and 1 gearbox seem to come in handy
as this is a front motor plane and these parts really take the damage
of nose in crashes. Don't know about other parts. The others are
pushers so props are less at risk. Add that extra 1-2 battery packs.

The Easy Star really does not need a spare wing or tail. The wing is
very tough and very repairable. The Easy Star is a little heavier than
the others, so add-on battery packs should be 7 cell 900 MAh or higher
2/3 or 4/5A packs, if you are using the RTF charger. The Aerobird 7
cell, or the parkzone 7 cell packs will work if you don't mind changing
connectors. The Easy Star RTF stock 6 cell is OK in calmer conditions
but get 7 add-ons. Figure at least 1 added battery pack at $25 each.

If you have an 8 cell charger you can go to 8 cells on the Easy Star, but
no more or you will burn up the motor. Be sure to check the balance with
the different battery packs.

The Easy Star and the T-Hawk are a little more versatile than the others
because they use standard electronics. Makes it easy to replace parts or
to upgrade the motor at a future date, if you wish.


So, did I hit any points that interest you? Any of these planes of interest?