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Electronic solutions to modifying glow engines of all sizes to gasoline

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Electronic solutions to modifying glow engines of all sizes to gasoline

Old 05-05-2023, 04:36 PM
  #1676  
Rcplanedan
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Originally Posted by John_M_
No neither do I... there's enough chitchat at the flight fields to get information circulating... not all are questionable, and I'm sure their higher end radios are a better choice... but I can tell you the story what happened to my son inlaw's DX6i pot failure, which put his H9 J3 Cub into the local landfill, transmitter went with it of course, I was quit put off my by it... its not like rc modeling is inexpensive, there is an investment at many levels in this hobby, from entry level, right up to competition, and one of the most important part of this hobby is the radio equipment, which needs to be relied upon, quality and durability is most important... and of course we are all familiar with "murphy", things happen that are out of our control, whether its pilot error, component failure, eventually something is going to happen... and not all radio issues are the fault of the equipment though, even 2.4 spread-spectrum can become congested to the point of holds & loc outs... I'm partial to futaba because that's what I have used for years, so you use what you know and stick with it.
this time round im going for some much more worthy..atleast il have one step forward..and my spektrum and load of recievers will go to the next happy purchaser, thanks,
Old 05-05-2023, 06:52 PM
  #1677  
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I bought two barely used 2019+ Taranis radios for $150 ea. shipped. Lots of them available from pilots thinking OpenTX would be easy to program. It IS easy to program but you have to learn what's going on first. It's different than oither canned TX software but not harder. I've been selling off my used Spektrum RX's and buying FrSky RX's two for one, and more channels to boot. Best move I ever made. I just don't see spending Jeti $$$$$ or the like at this point but I'm not flying competition any more either.
Old 05-05-2023, 11:12 PM
  #1678  
1967brutus
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Guys, with all due respect, this TX stuff is absolutely postworthy.... but should it not be in another thread?
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Old 05-05-2023, 11:56 PM
  #1679  
Rcplanedan
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Originally Posted by 1967brutus
Guys, with all due respect, this TX stuff is absolutely postworthy.... but should it not be in another thread?
bert,my apologies, it is taking up the pages in this thread, 👍
Old 05-06-2023, 01:08 AM
  #1680  
1967brutus
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No need for apologies, because after all, this IS a thread about gasoline conversions, and ignition related interference is an integral part of the deal.
It's just that it should not turn out into a discussion about radio brands, unless there would be some evidence that Brand X canot cope with ignition interference, and Brand Y is preferrable because of that, but the issues of Spektrum do not appear to be ignition related.
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Old 05-06-2023, 02:25 AM
  #1681  
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Question has it ever been tested?

Now there are so many diferent systems avaiable has it ever been compaired how they perform alongside ignition?
Like make up a module that generates a exposed spark and then range check diferent recievers with the spark besides them.
That could give some "hard data" what system works better then others.

Old 05-06-2023, 03:10 AM
  #1682  
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That might be a thing worth investigating, but I think doing so requires a larger budget than I am willing to invest.
Old 05-06-2023, 03:33 AM
  #1683  
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Lightbulb one of these would work

https://www.banggood.com/Geekcreit-D...N&rmmds=search
Have one of these running besides a model during a range check.

If a model passes a range check with a continious arc besides it then the intermittent spark from a ignition should not be a issue.
Bribing other club members with diferent systems to do a check too could give the data we are looking for.
Old 05-06-2023, 07:23 AM
  #1684  
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My apologies too, Bert. I thought to share my experiences with Spektrum, old and new, wrt operating the solenoid fueling system. Didn't want Dan to make the same mistake I made, thinking that the new NX series would function better than the older DX series. He is looking at buying a radio after all. FrSky Taranis/ACCESS works flawless. I'm done.
Old 05-06-2023, 07:44 AM
  #1685  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
My apologies too, Bert.
stop apologizing, guys, it's all good
Old 05-06-2023, 08:51 AM
  #1686  
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Originally Posted by cmulder
https://www.banggood.com/Geekcreit-D...N&rmmds=search
Have one of these running besides a model during a range check.

If a model passes a range check with a continious arc besides it then the intermittent spark from a ignition should not be a issue.
Bribing other club members with diferent systems to do a check too could give the data we are looking for.
I have 35k coils in my cdi, double shielded... with a sheet metal cover over each coil on the board, and then the entire cdi circuit board placed inside the metal enclosure.

Originally Posted by 1967brutus
Guys, with all due respect, this TX stuff is absolutely postworthy.... but should it not be in another thread?
Well Bert, I just replied to a posted comment like you did... Its pertinent information... one can't enjoy their ESVGC engines, if one can't keep their aircraft in the air due to radio issues.


Old 05-07-2023, 06:46 AM
  #1687  
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Meanwhile, I got an update from the single guy I sold a solenoid set to that is using it with methanol (and spark ignition) and he just confirmed that his set still worked perfectly fine after 6 months of non-use, so it seems the solenoid is reasonably methanol-resistant.
Old 05-07-2023, 06:55 AM
  #1688  
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Nice to know, but why use the solenoid running methanol with a methanol engine?
Old 05-07-2023, 07:10 AM
  #1689  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Nice to know, but why use the solenoid running methanol with a methanol engine?
On a glow engine, ignition timing is controlled by the fuel linearity of the carb. Since the CDI takes over this function of timing, suddenly the fuel/air ratio requirement is no longer determined by the glowplug, but by the fuel's stoichiometry (the "perfect" ratio where very fuel molecule finds exactly the right amoung of O2 molecules to combine with). That is a different ratio.
If you tune very careful, you will find that a glow engine, running Methanol fuel combined with spark ignition, will nopt only need both needles to be set significantly leaner, but also that there is a rich patch in the midrange. Some carbs allow for this to be tuned away, others don't.
That rich spot usually is not that bad that it NEEDS tuning out, but it does cause a bit of a stumbling run at half throttle, what is worse, it contributes significantly to the "slime". The solenoid will clean up the mixture of a sparked methanol burning engine considerably.
I never experimented too much with it after I changed over to gas, but I have flown a sparked methanol burning fourstroke helicopter for a few years, and although the engine was pretty reliable, absolutely more fuel economic than when it still was glow, the carb was pretty hard to adjust (stable once set, but I had to be extremely accurate. I fitted a 3 needle carb, because the original twin needle carb was impossible to adjust after the spark conversion.
It was also extremely loud...



Last edited by 1967brutus; 05-07-2023 at 07:15 AM.
Old 05-07-2023, 09:10 AM
  #1690  
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Nice smooth flying with the heli, Bert. I understand they are quite hard to control near the ground. It's been described as balancing oneself with one foot on a beach ball.

I've run methanol with spark on four Saitos now, in preparation for gas conversions. They all ran a tiny bit richer in the midrange rpm but nothing to be concerned with if the engine is well broke in, allowing for leaner idle settings. Transition to wot was alarmingly fast. Almost scary. I can certainly understand the attraction to methanol/CDI from a performance standpoint as well as enhanced fuel economy.

Saito carbs are works of art. That cateye slit in the spraybar sets them apart from other forms of carb jetting, as found on many 2 strokes. It's not just a hole in the spraybar, it provides a form of progressive fuel metering that is greatly affected by the low speed needle setting. Midrange lean or rich running can be dialed in pretty close.

Then there's the wonderful airbleed carb found on the 120 Fathead that has a midrange adjustment to allow fuel enrichment aggresiveness at the "harder to dial in" rpm range. Even less compromise of idle and wot running behaviour is required with that carb. I recently acquired a 120 Fathead. My third Fathead but the first to be converted to gas. The 120 Fathead has gigantic cooling fins, almost like Saito was looking in the gasser direction early on. I may or may not run it on a plane but fully intend on experimenting with in on gas. Mostly curious how flat I can get the fuel curve.


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Old 05-07-2023, 09:28 AM
  #1691  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Nice smooth flying with the heli, Bert. I understand they are quite hard to control near the ground. It's been described as balancing oneself with one foot on a beach ball.
This one even has a flybarless rotor but no flybarless electroncs, And due to the rather low power fourstroke, it only runs a headspeed of 1000 RPM, so it is a bit of a handful... That's OK, I like it that way...

Originally Posted by Glowgeek
I've run methanol with spark on four Saitos now, in preparation for gas conversions. They all ran a tiny bit richer in the midrange rpm but nothing to be concerned with if the engine ius well broke in, alliwing for leaner idle settings. Transition to wot was alarmingly fast. Almost scary. I can certainly understand the attraction to methanol/CDI.

Saito carbs are works of art. That cateye slit in the spraybar sets them apart from other forms of carb jetting, as found on many 2 strokes. It's not just a hole in the spraybar, it provides a form of progressive fuel metering that is greatly affected by the low speed needle setting. Midrange lean or rich running can be dialed in pretty close.

Then there's the wonderful airbleed carb found on the 120 Fathead that has a midrange adjustment to allow fuel enrichment aggresiveness at the "harder to dial in" rpm range. Even less compromise of idle and wot running behaviour is required with that carb. I recently acquired a 120 Fathead. My third Fathead but the first to be converted to gas. The 120 Fathead has gigantic cooling fins, almost like Saito was looking in the gasser direction early on. I may or may not run it on a plane but fully intend on experimenting with in on gas. Mostly curious how flat I can get the fuel curve.
Saito's are good in that respect. Os (the engine in question for that guy I reported the feedback on) are a bit less perfect.
Speaking of Fatheads, they indeed are lovely engines for a conversion. There is one of those flying in my club, cowled and baffled and all, and it runs like a charm.

Old 05-07-2023, 11:47 AM
  #1692  
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Originally Posted by 1967brutus
Saito's are good in that respect. Os (the engine in question for that guy I reported the feedback on) are a bit less perfect.
Speaking of Fatheads, they indeed are lovely engines for a conversion. There is one of those flying in my club, cowled and baffled and all, and it runs like a charm.
On gas? With or without the solenoid? Do tell, it's killing me. Bearings are on order for mine and I'd appreciate any input on a 120 Fathead gasser.

Back to pressure washing the cedar siding for stain prep.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 05-07-2023 at 11:52 AM.
Old 05-07-2023, 01:09 PM
  #1693  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
On gas? With or without the solenoid? Do tell, it's killing me. Bearings are on order for mine and I'd appreciate any input on a 120 Fathead gasser.

Back to pressure washing the cedar siding for stain prep.
On gas, and with the solenoid.
It gave a plane that was grounded for the most of 30 years a 2nd life...
Old 05-07-2023, 02:40 PM
  #1694  
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Originally Posted by 1967brutus
On gas, and with the solenoid.
It gave a plane that was grounded for the most of 30 years a 2nd life...
Of course you know, without me saying, what my resonse to that would be.
Old 05-07-2023, 11:48 PM
  #1695  
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:d :d :d
Old 05-08-2023, 06:00 PM
  #1696  
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Interesting Note on the Methanol resistance Bert ... Just allows for more ideas that I don't have time to experiment with right now .. Im getting very use to tweaking the curves on the radio and miss it when I do fly Meth...

Im embarrassed at the lack of progress with my projects - Just too busy with everything else to get anything done. I did finally spend some time yesterday with the Boxer Mule and its so close I can taste it.. Just a few things left to do Should fly soon if the systems test out.

My first flight this spring was on GLOW !! :0 (it was still great though).
Old 05-08-2023, 06:07 PM
  #1697  
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P.S. Beautiful Bell 47 Bert... My eldest son is a Rotary Pilot (full scale) and he trained on Bell 47's. Apparently they make you really good at understanding Power Management as the power is run by the twisty thing in your hand. He endorsed this winter on a Super Puma (AS332 L2) which is making inroads here as a Utility machine. Its a monster with no shortage of ponies... The polar opposite of the 47.

Old 05-08-2023, 08:18 PM
  #1698  
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Originally Posted by Cat 1
P.S. Beautiful Bell 47 Bert... My eldest son is a Rotary Pilot (full scale) and he trained on Bell 47's. Apparently they make you really good at understanding Power Management as the power is run by the twisty thing in your hand. He endorsed this winter on a Super Puma (AS332 L2) which is making inroads here as a Utility machine. Its a monster with no shortage of ponies... The polar opposite of the 47.
This thing was also very scale like: take a look at the 2:12 time mark... that is a full power climbout... It barely hoovered and I had to fly entirely on the transitional lift. In the vid, there's still an OS .90 fourstroke in it, spark, methanol and 0% Nitro.
It is going to get an ASP .90 2-stroke on gas, should not be all that more powerful, but every little bit is welcome
Old 05-11-2023, 10:52 PM
  #1699  
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Here's a guy running a OS FT-160 boxer in a vario heli... looks like a nice setup.

Old 05-12-2023, 12:24 AM
  #1700  
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Yeah, those things were the bees knees back then... Pretty rare now, and a bit of an oddity: the helicopter kit was something like 700 Euro, the engine 1200 or more and it was near impossible to fit that mechanics in a fuselage due to the double exhaust (which alone was a set, close to 400 Euro).
The SkyFox was a trainer of modular design, intended to first use as a trainer, then after sufficient skills transfer the mechanics to any of the about 30 different fuselages availlable for it. None of the fuselage kits were really suitable for the BoxerFox, and the Boxerfox did not really like being "fuselaged" due to cooling issues anyway.

So it has always remained a rare bird...

It was also butt-ugly! Here's one in flight:

Looking at the smoke trails I believe he is burning up his portside cylinder...

Last edited by 1967brutus; 05-12-2023 at 02:23 AM.

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