New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
04-18-2010, 09:25 PM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Charlie, I did set mine at 28 degrees...it runs best at that setting, although I moved it around a little while it was running at top end to see what the differences would be..results were best at 28.
How did you end up fixing your problem with the pic?
John
How did you end up fixing your problem with the pic?
John
04-18-2010, 09:53 PM
#1177
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Hi John,
I ended up starting from scratch with the timer board. I kinda came up with my own design. I wanted to keep it simple. It seems to work OK. I dug in my scrap box and found some 4 pin optos. I used one fro input and one for output. I wanted to make sure the pic is isolated on both ends. I think now I can stick with just one between the HV board and the pic. Once I am happy with the way it works I am going to make one using a pic SOIC package and SMT resistors. Makes everything compact and no drilling holes. They are easier to work with then you might think.
Charlie M.
I ended up starting from scratch with the timer board. I kinda came up with my own design. I wanted to keep it simple. It seems to work OK. I dug in my scrap box and found some 4 pin optos. I used one fro input and one for output. I wanted to make sure the pic is isolated on both ends. I think now I can stick with just one between the HV board and the pic. Once I am happy with the way it works I am going to make one using a pic SOIC package and SMT resistors. Makes everything compact and no drilling holes. They are easier to work with then you might think.
Charlie M.
04-18-2010, 11:49 PM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
ORIGINAL: azalner
I’ve been thinking about some recent postings to this thread and would like to add the following comments and observations: Reading back over the post it’s obvious (to me anyway) that I have confused engine timing with sensor placement. Especially with regard to starting engines with the spark advanced 30 degrees. I apologize to all for the confusion.
Let’s step back for a second and ask why timing advance is important. Most of the small engines (chain saws, leaf blowers, and lawn mowers) are “dumbed down†for safety and product liability reasons. There is usually no advance and we live with the reduced performance of the engine at the high end. Therefore the engine is factory set with a compromise ignition setting - that is reliable starting with no kickback and compromised high end performance. Since this forum is about converting these so called “chainsaw†engines to RC use, I will focus my comments along those lines.
The first thing we should define is what makes a good ignition timing advance curve for an RC engine. I put together the attached graph to show the range we want to operate at. The first thing you will notice about this graph is that it goes way down on the RPM scale. This is because we hand start our engines and we need to approximate the speed with which we “flip†our props. The other thing to notice is that the upper end max is around 10,000 RPM. We very seldom see this. Typically are high end will be around 8500 RPM. Finally you can see that we start our engines around 6-8 degrees BTDC and begin to advance the ignition when we get to fast idle (around 2000 RPM). We then advance the ignition smoothly until it gets to the magical 28-30 degrees BTDC (around 4200 RPM) and there it will stay.
Now in the past there have been all sorts of schemes to achieve this. There have been mechanical advance systems. I attached a poor quality photo of one such system on a converted (glow to ignition) engine. Some systems did away with the transition entirely and used two micro-switches (start and run). The Jump Start is a battery powered booster ignition for magneto equipped engines. It will provide a hot spark at hand crank RPM. If your carb is set correctly, it will allow hand starts!
Here is where the beauty of the micro-processor comes in. It is simple, reliable, no moving parts and we can program it to do anything we want. Oops! I said we. Unfortunately most model airplane guys can’t program in assembly language and that is where we need help.
In the past few postings we discussed sensor placement and the most common location is ~30 deg. BTDC. Based on our timing curve we can see this is where we want the timing to be at the high RPM range. But trying to start the engine at this advanced timing setting would be futile and/or dangerous. But our timing curve tells us that we want to advance the spark based on engine RPM. So how do we determine engine RPM when starting the engine?
It is important that we know the instantaneous RPM when starting the engine to avoid dangerous kick-back. This is the RPM that we flip our propellers. Therefore instead of measuring the interval between pulses from the Hall sensor, I would propose measuring the duration of the pulse to calculate the RPM. This would generate an instant RPM reading. If the processor sees zero or low RPM it will immediately retard the spark so that it will always start at ~6 degrees BTDC. As a sidebar, CH is offering a neat little tachometer that plugs between the Hall sensor and ignition, but I dont know if they are using pulse duration or interval duration.
A flat (boxer) twin 2 cycle does not require a distributor as it fires both cylinders at the same time. One is on the compression stroke and the other is on the exhaust stroke. So the software for these engines should be the same as for single cylinder engines with respect to timing.
If my previous posts caused confusion, I apologize to all. If this is old hat to some of you, my apologies as well. Sometimes the only way to clearly convey a thought or idea is to be a little long winded. Also, for somebody new reading this thread, the information may be of help.
AlZ
Comments anyone?
I’ve been thinking about some recent postings to this thread and would like to add the following comments and observations: Reading back over the post it’s obvious (to me anyway) that I have confused engine timing with sensor placement. Especially with regard to starting engines with the spark advanced 30 degrees. I apologize to all for the confusion.
Let’s step back for a second and ask why timing advance is important. Most of the small engines (chain saws, leaf blowers, and lawn mowers) are “dumbed down†for safety and product liability reasons. There is usually no advance and we live with the reduced performance of the engine at the high end. Therefore the engine is factory set with a compromise ignition setting - that is reliable starting with no kickback and compromised high end performance. Since this forum is about converting these so called “chainsaw†engines to RC use, I will focus my comments along those lines.
The first thing we should define is what makes a good ignition timing advance curve for an RC engine. I put together the attached graph to show the range we want to operate at. The first thing you will notice about this graph is that it goes way down on the RPM scale. This is because we hand start our engines and we need to approximate the speed with which we “flip†our props. The other thing to notice is that the upper end max is around 10,000 RPM. We very seldom see this. Typically are high end will be around 8500 RPM. Finally you can see that we start our engines around 6-8 degrees BTDC and begin to advance the ignition when we get to fast idle (around 2000 RPM). We then advance the ignition smoothly until it gets to the magical 28-30 degrees BTDC (around 4200 RPM) and there it will stay.
Now in the past there have been all sorts of schemes to achieve this. There have been mechanical advance systems. I attached a poor quality photo of one such system on a converted (glow to ignition) engine. Some systems did away with the transition entirely and used two micro-switches (start and run). The Jump Start is a battery powered booster ignition for magneto equipped engines. It will provide a hot spark at hand crank RPM. If your carb is set correctly, it will allow hand starts!
Here is where the beauty of the micro-processor comes in. It is simple, reliable, no moving parts and we can program it to do anything we want. Oops! I said we. Unfortunately most model airplane guys can’t program in assembly language and that is where we need help.
In the past few postings we discussed sensor placement and the most common location is ~30 deg. BTDC. Based on our timing curve we can see this is where we want the timing to be at the high RPM range. But trying to start the engine at this advanced timing setting would be futile and/or dangerous. But our timing curve tells us that we want to advance the spark based on engine RPM. So how do we determine engine RPM when starting the engine?
It is important that we know the instantaneous RPM when starting the engine to avoid dangerous kick-back. This is the RPM that we flip our propellers. Therefore instead of measuring the interval between pulses from the Hall sensor, I would propose measuring the duration of the pulse to calculate the RPM. This would generate an instant RPM reading. If the processor sees zero or low RPM it will immediately retard the spark so that it will always start at ~6 degrees BTDC. As a sidebar, CH is offering a neat little tachometer that plugs between the Hall sensor and ignition, but I dont know if they are using pulse duration or interval duration.
A flat (boxer) twin 2 cycle does not require a distributor as it fires both cylinders at the same time. One is on the compression stroke and the other is on the exhaust stroke. So the software for these engines should be the same as for single cylinder engines with respect to timing.
If my previous posts caused confusion, I apologize to all. If this is old hat to some of you, my apologies as well. Sometimes the only way to clearly convey a thought or idea is to be a little long winded. Also, for somebody new reading this thread, the information may be of help.
AlZ
Comments anyone?
BCCHI
04-20-2010, 03:55 PM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
I don't have find time to change some settings into the Exelsheet.
The timervalues must be change, any thing els can be used.
The timervalues must be change, any thing els can be used.
04-24-2010, 08:53 PM
#1181
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Rob,
I don't see why the table generated from your excel sheet won't work. All it is is the value of TMR0. Anyway I ported the code over to a 12F683 pic. Testing it, it works the same as the code for the 16F628a. IF anyone is interested I can post it. Thank you nyemi for the code. I am having to sort some more issues with my board. As soon as I do I am going to use a 12F683 SSOP package. Should make it compact.
Charlie
I don't see why the table generated from your excel sheet won't work. All it is is the value of TMR0. Anyway I ported the code over to a 12F683 pic. Testing it, it works the same as the code for the 16F628a. IF anyone is interested I can post it. Thank you nyemi for the code. I am having to sort some more issues with my board. As soon as I do I am going to use a 12F683 SSOP package. Should make it compact.
Charlie
04-26-2010, 11:59 PM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Charlie, do you have a board design for the 12f683 chip yet? I am not into surface mount yet but would like to make an adapter to plug into the 18 pin sockets on my boards. I can look up the data sheet for the new chip and make one I guess.
I'm also not sure my RCD programmer will handle the 12f683 chip but I'll look that up also on the site. Just looked it up and it does support the 12f683 pic! If you have the ported code from Nyemi's corrected program for the 12f683, post it and I'll try it, although I can't compile C-code so I'd need the hex file to program my chips.
Is it the timer board you are having the problems with? I can send you one of mine to play around with if needed...I have quite a few made up and tested.
John
I'm also not sure my RCD programmer will handle the 12f683 chip but I'll look that up also on the site. Just looked it up and it does support the 12f683 pic! If you have the ported code from Nyemi's corrected program for the 12f683, post it and I'll try it, although I can't compile C-code so I'd need the hex file to program my chips.
Is it the timer board you are having the problems with? I can send you one of mine to play around with if needed...I have quite a few made up and tested.
John
04-27-2010, 06:35 AM
#1183
Senior Member
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Hi John,
I am in the process of making a board for the 12F683. I am using a dip package for the prototype and if all is good then I am going to use SMD. There is no test function so the jumpers are not necessary. Here is the C code and the generated hex.
Here is the Hex :
I am in the process of making a board for the 12F683. I am using a dip package for the prototype and if all is good then I am going to use SMD. There is no test function so the jumpers are not necessary. Here is the C code and the generated hex.
Code:
void main()
{
const char tspark[]={ 0, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 10, 10, 11, 11, 12, 13, 13, 14, 15, 15, 16, 16, 17, 18, 18, 19, 19, 20, 21, 21, 22, 22, 23, 23, 24, 25, 25, 26, 26, 27, 27, 28, 28, 29, 29, 30, 31, 31, 32, 32, 33, 33, 34, 34, 35, 35, 36, 36, 37, 37, 38, 38, 38, 39, 39, 40, 40, 41, 41, 42, 42, 43, 43, 43, 44, 44, 45, 45, 46, 46, 46, 47, 47, 48, 48, 49, 49, 49, 50, 50, 50, 51, 51, 52, 52, 52, 53, 53, 53, 54, 54, 54, 55, 55, 55, 56, 56, 56, 57, 57, 57, 58, 58, 58, 59, 59, 59, 60, 60, 60, 60, 61, 61, 61, 62, 62, 62, 62, 63, 63, 63, 63, 64,
64, 64, 65, 65, 63, 63, 64, 64, 64, 65, 65, 66, 66, 67, 67, 68, 68, 68, 69, 69, 70, 70, 71, 71, 71, 72, 72, 73, 73, 74, 74, 75, 75, 76, 76, 76, 77, 77, 78, 78, 79, 79, 80, 80, 80, 81, 81, 82, 82, 83, 83, 83, 84, 84, 85, 85, 86, 86, 87, 87, 87, 88, 88, 89, 89, 90, 90, 91, 91, 92, 92, 92, 93, 93, 94, 94, 95, 95, 96, 96, 96, 97, 97, 98, 98, 99, 99, 100, 100, 100, 101, 101, 102, 102, 103, 103, 104, 104, 104, 105, 105, 106, 106, 107, 107, 107, 108, 108, 109, 109, 110, 110, 111, 111, 112, 112, 112, 113, 113};
char tspk,spark, t0;
//TRISIO = 0x0E; // set RB1,2,3 for input, all others for output RB0=SCR RB4=Strobe
//GPIO = 0x11; // set gate to SCR high i.e pin 6 of PIC +strobe
//OSCCON = 0b01100111; // internal OSC set to 4MHZ
ANSEL = 0; // Disable Analog channels
CMCON0 = 0x07; // Disable Comparitors
TRISIO = 0x02; // set RB1 for input, all others for output
GPIO = 0x00; // set gate to SCR low i.e pin 5 of PIC
OPTION_REG = 0x07; // set to 07=256 RE - tmr0 SOURCE INT CLOCK, 06=1:128 PRESCALER
TMR2 = 0;
PR2 = 255;
T2CON = 0x07; // start TMR2 counter 1:16
INTCON = 0; // clear INTCON
// Following table is based on 360 degree timing arc & 40 deg starting arc (South pole of magnet triggers Hall switch)
// table based on a polynomial and limits the min delay to 15 TMR2 cycles
// the spark flag is a one shot to prevent continuous sparking on a Hall low signal
while(1) // loop forever
{
while( GPIO.F1 ^ 1) // wait for high pulse on Hall switch
{
spark = 1;
} // North pole of magnet has passed
while(spark)
{
t0 = TMR0;
TMR0 = 0; // start new rev count
if(INTCON&4) tspk=255; // RPM 255x16uS=4,080mS
else tspk = tspark[t0]; // use table lookup for spark delay
T2CON = 0x07; // start TMR2 counter 1:16
TMR2= 0; // clear spark timer
while(TMR2 < tspk); // loop until timeout to send spark
GPIO ^= 0x05; // take ground off the SCR
delay_us(46); // 46 us delay
GPIO ^= 0x05; // sends a ground to the SCR gate
spark = 0;
INTCON = 0; // clear INTCON
} // end while spark loop
} // end loop forever
} // end of program
Code:
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
04-27-2010, 06:40 AM
#1184
Senior Member
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Well I see that the code tags still don't work.
John,
Let me put one of mine together and see how it works. I just received my samples of the LDO regulator. So maybe that will solve my issues.
John,
Let me put one of mine together and see how it works. I just received my samples of the LDO regulator. So maybe that will solve my issues.
04-29-2010, 03:03 PM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
I think we don't get a complete new program, today the other programmer let me know he can't find the time todo it.
It was a piece of cake the say........but after 10 or 12 weeks there isn't one line of program.
I'll start to rewrite the Exelsheet so we can use the program we have from Nyemi.
Sorry guys, we have try !
It was a piece of cake the say........but after 10 or 12 weeks there isn't one line of program.
I'll start to rewrite the Exelsheet so we can use the program we have from Nyemi.
Sorry guys, we have try !
04-29-2010, 07:14 PM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Rob, That's an excellent idea. I had a few pm's about a week ago from forum readers who were worried that we were stuck without good software..but since then, the world has changed! I want to thank you in advance for the new excel sheet when it's ready..Also, I want to commend Nyemi for going the extra mile to produce the changes and useable code. Nyemi's code is very useable for me..works great. He is working on adding the test function back into it right now..I don't know how he does it..I can't even get Mikro-c to compile anything! When I load the c-code and go to Project, it doesn't let me select Build as it did before..Don't know what's wrong with it..I'll go back and go over Charlie's instructions again..maybe I am missing something as usual..
John
John
05-01-2010, 11:23 AM
#1187
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Hello Every One,
I want to ask if is any more room and patiente for a newbi here.I am new to this CDI. I have bought a Rcxel ignition and works fine. But I will like to try something else. What will be the diffrence between that ignition and the one you building. I guess that is locked and you can't change a thing VS this where you can experiment.
Now I need to get familiar with your terms.
1. TCI Igot it, handle the timing and tells the other part CDI when to fire.
2, CDI or the HV board is one and the same andis the part that produce the high voltage.
3 . The transformer is the one that you have to winde your self. I seen square and round. I seen some links wrom where to get it, some of them dead. I find working the one that you open a fluorescent bulb to take it out , also from a LCD screen CTX210655-R, Is this the HV Coil? I will like some one kind enough to take a picture of a complete working system and point this is HV board, coil.etc.I need to clarifie those.
I went on Rob site and from there I follow this link: http://www.cncengines.com/orderpage.html . here I find HV coil $15 bare and ...$28 with spark plug wire. Is this the transformer that you can buy from here and not have to wind or ...you have to connect this to that transformer.
I also seen this http://www.sportdevices.com/ignition/inverter.htmwhen Rob said not to ask whi does not do it. looks like is able to handle up to 60000 RPM .I got that is a chip availability problem for ROB? I can send you one from here to test it and play with.
I also seen that was/is a problem with the soft that nyemy fix for now. I read so much in the last 8-9 hours.that I have a gazilian of thinks to ask.
Well...I can solder , when I was a kid I use to build my own radio and PCB , used NHO3 to make them...here I do not have that option, Computer wise ...I strong ...when P3 cards out ....I was playing with them with the programer. I just need to clarifie the terms and what I need to build ...at list one.
I convert Glow to gas RC airplane. 4 stroke. Saito mainly ,addapting Wt carbs. so that is what I will actually want to see if I can get more power and RPM's out. I will like to use 6 v, 4-5 cell battery.
So please point me in the right direction or I should wait untill all of those new changes settle. And all gets a new way with the new design that new programmer works on.
Thank you and I realy appreciate the content of this thread ...and ROB do not give up It is your work for the past 5 years and imput fom John, Charly and others.
Adrian
I want to ask if is any more room and patiente for a newbi here.I am new to this CDI. I have bought a Rcxel ignition and works fine. But I will like to try something else. What will be the diffrence between that ignition and the one you building. I guess that is locked and you can't change a thing VS this where you can experiment.
Now I need to get familiar with your terms.
1. TCI Igot it, handle the timing and tells the other part CDI when to fire.
2, CDI or the HV board is one and the same andis the part that produce the high voltage.
3 . The transformer is the one that you have to winde your self. I seen square and round. I seen some links wrom where to get it, some of them dead. I find working the one that you open a fluorescent bulb to take it out , also from a LCD screen CTX210655-R, Is this the HV Coil? I will like some one kind enough to take a picture of a complete working system and point this is HV board, coil.etc.I need to clarifie those.
I went on Rob site and from there I follow this link: http://www.cncengines.com/orderpage.html . here I find HV coil $15 bare and ...$28 with spark plug wire. Is this the transformer that you can buy from here and not have to wind or ...you have to connect this to that transformer.
I also seen this http://www.sportdevices.com/ignition/inverter.htmwhen Rob said not to ask whi does not do it. looks like is able to handle up to 60000 RPM .I got that is a chip availability problem for ROB? I can send you one from here to test it and play with.
I also seen that was/is a problem with the soft that nyemy fix for now. I read so much in the last 8-9 hours.that I have a gazilian of thinks to ask.
Well...I can solder , when I was a kid I use to build my own radio and PCB , used NHO3 to make them...here I do not have that option, Computer wise ...I strong ...when P3 cards out ....I was playing with them with the programer. I just need to clarifie the terms and what I need to build ...at list one.
I convert Glow to gas RC airplane. 4 stroke. Saito mainly ,addapting Wt carbs. so that is what I will actually want to see if I can get more power and RPM's out. I will like to use 6 v, 4-5 cell battery.
So please point me in the right direction or I should wait untill all of those new changes settle. And all gets a new way with the new design that new programmer works on.
Thank you and I realy appreciate the content of this thread ...and ROB do not give up It is your work for the past 5 years and imput fom John, Charly and others.
Adrian
05-01-2010, 11:44 AM
#1188
Senior Member
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Hello Adrian,
welcome to the forum. TCI is Transistor controlled ignition where the transistor takes the input from the Hall(crank sensor) and fires the coil. CDI uses a step up transformer and stores it in a Capacitor and then a SCR or Mosfet forces the cap to discharge to the ignition coil. The Tci ignition needs dwell and CDI does not care about dwell. The transformer you have to wind is the step up transformer that takes 5 volts and steps it up to 400. The ignition coil you can buy and I would not suggest trying to built it your self. As all the windings need to be insulated from each other. As far as the software goes I think Nyemi is very close. John has mentioned that it works very well. I am still building timer boards and have not tested it yet. any and all questions are welcome.
Charlie
welcome to the forum. TCI is Transistor controlled ignition where the transistor takes the input from the Hall(crank sensor) and fires the coil. CDI uses a step up transformer and stores it in a Capacitor and then a SCR or Mosfet forces the cap to discharge to the ignition coil. The Tci ignition needs dwell and CDI does not care about dwell. The transformer you have to wind is the step up transformer that takes 5 volts and steps it up to 400. The ignition coil you can buy and I would not suggest trying to built it your self. As all the windings need to be insulated from each other. As far as the software goes I think Nyemi is very close. John has mentioned that it works very well. I am still building timer boards and have not tested it yet. any and all questions are welcome.
Charlie
05-01-2010, 12:08 PM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
I'm also building this cdi and now trying to get the rcd programmer to work.
Edit: Rob explained me how it works. Thanks....
Edit: Rob explained me how it works. Thanks....
05-01-2010, 12:38 PM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
@Adrian, a TCI use normal Voltages for the ignitioncoil, same like a car or bike (12 Volt)
The ignitioncoil of a TCI is very big, it have to transform 12 Volt to ~10,000 Volt.
A CDI use two small coils, the first one makes from 6 Volt 400 Volt and the second one transform the 400 Volt to 40,000 Volt or more.
You can see the spark-Voltage of a CDI is much higher........but also shorter.
A short spark don't take much current end the spark is much better under all conditions.
The ignitioncoil of a TCI is very big, it have to transform 12 Volt to ~10,000 Volt.
A CDI use two small coils, the first one makes from 6 Volt 400 Volt and the second one transform the 400 Volt to 40,000 Volt or more.
You can see the spark-Voltage of a CDI is much higher........but also shorter.
A short spark don't take much current end the spark is much better under all conditions.
05-01-2010, 04:05 PM
#1191
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Thank you .
What do I need to star building one. I have...nothing.Iopened a 13W fluorescent bulb and I find a transformer.is like 1/2 x 1/2 will that be enough?as size?
What programer, TCI-CDI schematics to use. I read over the 48 pages and now I am totally lost.On your side I seen diffrent versions.
Thank you Adrian.
What do I need to star building one. I have...nothing.Iopened a 13W fluorescent bulb and I find a transformer.is like 1/2 x 1/2 will that be enough?as size?
What programer, TCI-CDI schematics to use. I read over the 48 pages and now I am totally lost.On your side I seen diffrent versions.
Thank you Adrian.
05-01-2010, 04:18 PM
#1192
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Start with the CDI-board and software you can find on my website.
http://www.modelbouw.gompy.net/newcdi/index.htm
I think we can change the new software into a version you can use with the old board.
If you don't want to make coils, start with a TCI-ignition.
We don't know where you gone use the ignition to, boat - car - plane.....or just for fun.
Wat kind of engine you gone use, Zenoah - weedeather - jigchaiw.
http://www.modelbouw.gompy.net/newcdi/index.htm
I think we can change the new software into a version you can use with the old board.
If you don't want to make coils, start with a TCI-ignition.
We don't know where you gone use the ignition to, boat - car - plane.....or just for fun.
Wat kind of engine you gone use, Zenoah - weedeather - jigchaiw.
05-01-2010, 05:56 PM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
I'm trying to get the program into the PIC with mikroC but with mikroC the rcd programmer is not found. With the PICprog4U program it does find the RCD programmer on com1. After putting the hex in the Pic i can't get the strobelight flashing. I noticed that during making the hex i could choose what kind of oscillator i want to program. Anyone knows wich one i should choose in the Picprog4U program?
05-02-2010, 03:23 AM
#1196
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Hi Rob,
will like to build a CDI that I will use with a 4 stroke airplane engine Saito FG20, FA 180. You said that CDI uses to bobines .On the site picture I seen only one transformer on the PCB.
where is the second? If you have a completed CDI system.Please take a picture of it , and make it like CDI for Dummys and Pm me(If you have time) I need to see a full system to be able to know what you guys are talking about.
I found this on the net, I do not know if it is any help but guys take a look at it .is a CDI-TCI .
http://www.sportdevices.com/ignition/ignition.htm
Where I work i deal with ovens and I have ignition boxes, I open one up and took a picture. Do I have anything usefull here. I seen the bobine for HV.
Please let me know.
Adrian
will like to build a CDI that I will use with a 4 stroke airplane engine Saito FG20, FA 180. You said that CDI uses to bobines .On the site picture I seen only one transformer on the PCB.
where is the second? If you have a completed CDI system.Please take a picture of it , and make it like CDI for Dummys and Pm me(If you have time) I need to see a full system to be able to know what you guys are talking about.
I found this on the net, I do not know if it is any help but guys take a look at it .is a CDI-TCI .
http://www.sportdevices.com/ignition/ignition.htm
Where I work i deal with ovens and I have ignition boxes, I open one up and took a picture. Do I have anything usefull here. I seen the bobine for HV.
Please let me know.
Adrian
05-02-2010, 04:21 AM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Charly,
I'm using the PIC16F628A.
I can choose between 101=INTOSC internal oscillator: RA6=CLKOUT RA7=I/O(_INTOSC_OSC_CLKOUT)
and 100=INTOSC internal oscillator: RA6=I/O RA7=I/O(_INTOSC_OSC_NOCLKOUT)
Wich one to select?
I'm using the PIC16F628A.
I can choose between 101=INTOSC internal oscillator: RA6=CLKOUT RA7=I/O(_INTOSC_OSC_CLKOUT)
and 100=INTOSC internal oscillator: RA6=I/O RA7=I/O(_INTOSC_OSC_NOCLKOUT)
Wich one to select?
05-02-2010, 06:14 AM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
@ Adrian,
At the pcb there is only the flyback transformer located, the one who makes from 6 Volt - 400 Volt to load the C.
You need also a sparktransformer, with 400 Volt you can't let the sparkplug spark, to make the >40,000 Volt.
@Evert, intern ocsilator, no clock out.
BTW, switch brownout off.
BUT, if you set all the fuses into MicroC and create the HEX-file you don't have to set this fuses again into your picprog.
At the pcb there is only the flyback transformer located, the one who makes from 6 Volt - 400 Volt to load the C.
You need also a sparktransformer, with 400 Volt you can't let the sparkplug spark, to make the >40,000 Volt.
@Evert, intern ocsilator, no clock out.
BTW, switch brownout off.
BUT, if you set all the fuses into MicroC and create the HEX-file you don't have to set this fuses again into your picprog.
05-02-2010, 07:20 AM
#1199
Senior Member
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
As rob sugggested 100=INTOSC internal oscillator: RA6=I/O RA7=I/O(_INTOSC_OSC_NOCLKOUT) is what you want to select.
05-02-2010, 07:33 AM
#1200
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Rob,
I think I see a Issue with the new excell sheet. When producing a new timing table I get values that exceed the timer0 value. Timer0 is a 8 bit timer. the hightest value it could have is 255. the Excell sheet produces values upto 338. Here is the table after I edited the curve.
const char tspark[]={ 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 5, 10, 5, 5, 6, 12, 6, 13, 6, 14, 7, 15, 15, 8, 16, 16, 8, 17, 18, 18, 9, 19, 20, 10, 20, 21, 10, 22, 22, 11, 23, 24, 12, 24, 25, 13, 26, 26, 27, 13, 28, 28, 28, 29, 14, 30, 30, 31, 31, 16, 32, 32, 33, 33, 34, 17, 35, 35, 35, 36, 36, 37, 18, 38, 38, 39, 39, 40, 40, 40, 20, 41, 42, 42, 43, 43, 43, 44, 44, 45, 45, 23, 46, 47, 47, 48, 48, 48, 49, 49, 50, 50, 51, 51, 26, 52, 52, 53, 53, 54, 54, 55, 55, 56, 56, 56, 57, 57, 58, 58, 44, 89, 90,
90, 91, 91, 92, 93, 94, 94, 95, 96, 96, 97, 98, 98, 99, 100, 100, 101, 102, 102, 103, 69, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 104, 208, 209, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 216, 217, 218, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224, 225, 226, 227, 228, 230, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 236, 237, 238, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 257, 258, 156, 313, 314, 315, 317, 318, 320, 321, 322, 324, 325, 326, 327, 329, 330, 331, 333, 334, 336, 337, 338};
I think I see a Issue with the new excell sheet. When producing a new timing table I get values that exceed the timer0 value. Timer0 is a 8 bit timer. the hightest value it could have is 255. the Excell sheet produces values upto 338. Here is the table after I edited the curve.
const char tspark[]={ 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 5, 10, 5, 5, 6, 12, 6, 13, 6, 14, 7, 15, 15, 8, 16, 16, 8, 17, 18, 18, 9, 19, 20, 10, 20, 21, 10, 22, 22, 11, 23, 24, 12, 24, 25, 13, 26, 26, 27, 13, 28, 28, 28, 29, 14, 30, 30, 31, 31, 16, 32, 32, 33, 33, 34, 17, 35, 35, 35, 36, 36, 37, 18, 38, 38, 39, 39, 40, 40, 40, 20, 41, 42, 42, 43, 43, 43, 44, 44, 45, 45, 23, 46, 47, 47, 48, 48, 48, 49, 49, 50, 50, 51, 51, 26, 52, 52, 53, 53, 54, 54, 55, 55, 56, 56, 56, 57, 57, 58, 58, 44, 89, 90,
90, 91, 91, 92, 93, 94, 94, 95, 96, 96, 97, 98, 98, 99, 100, 100, 101, 102, 102, 103, 69, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 104, 208, 209, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 216, 217, 218, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224, 225, 226, 227, 228, 230, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 236, 237, 238, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 257, 258, 156, 313, 314, 315, 317, 318, 320, 321, 322, 324, 325, 326, 327, 329, 330, 331, 333, 334, 336, 337, 338};