Loss of cheap
 

Hi,

Here is a "copy and paste" of an e-mail I just sent to Nitroplanes. Actually, it was a "reply" to the Umpteenth e-mail they have sent me bragging about their new electric airplane stock....

Here it is:

Hello,
I have to say that it is actually painful to see how you have abandoned the gas and glow "people" and gone to only caring about your electric airplane stock. Electric airplanes are fine for some, and I even own three myself, but the majority of the every day fliers, and most of the professionals, fly glow and/or gas airplanes.

I have hopefully waited for you to replenish your stock of gas and/or glow airplanes. It appears that after 2 years, you are not going to do so. Please remove me from your mailing list.

Sincerely,
Robert

Maybe if enough of us complain, the magazines and the suppliers will get off this 80% plus coverage of electric airplanes, and start stocking "real" airplanes again....

AV8TOR

RE: Loss of cheap
 

There's some electrics at the flying field but there are more gas jobs.

The electrics can only fly when there is no wind

RE: Loss of cheap
 

Are you trolling?:D We all know wind has nothing to do with the type of power plant you have in the model. I flew electric only for ten years. On the days so windy everyone else was scared, I flew my electrics.

On a more serious note. Retailers go to where the money is. Sometimes there are other reasons. Nitroplanes doesn't manufacture airplanes, they sell airplanes. Manufacturers disappear or go under, and many have, prices become ridiculous and you dump them. if it's an issue of suppliers new ones will turn up. If the market has changed, the only thing that will change the supply is demand.

RE: Loss of cheap
 

There are big 3D electrics at the field that fly whenever but most of the electrics are in the 400 or up to 15 size.

RE: Loss of cheap
 

Well, I surely hope this electric craze is just a fad.... I have nothing against them, except that when my favorite suppliers dump their gas/glow stock to spend their stock money on electrics, and when every time I get a new magazine it is nearly all electric coverage...

The percentages I see at the flying fields around the Southwest as far as electric versus gas or glow do not in any way mirror the percentages of coverage I see in the magazines.

AV8TOR

RE: Loss of cheap
 

when I was flying my mini ultra stick almost exclusively, I could fly that in any condition, I flew the HECK out of that thing until I destroyed it...

RE: Loss of cheap
 

I have 400 airplanes that fly in 20 MPH wind, that are actually power by 400 brushed motors at 100W input. you build or bring airplanes to suit your flying conditions. There are also the slopers that wait until the wind gets to 60-70 MPH to bring out the dynamic soarers to push 400MPH.

Electric is here to stay. Face it. The world is cordless electric everything. An electric airplane can be easily related to to somebody under 20 years of age than an IC powered aircraft. When I worked in the RC industry I thought big electric (>1000W) would never take off. But 5-6 years ago all of a sudden it became acceptable to spend 2-3 times what a glow setup would cost to have an electric 60 size or larger airplane. Only a couple years later the Chinese figured out there is a huge market and the cost is actually less than buying a new OS or Saito four stroke. If the price of electric motors, ESC, and batteries didn't drop, there was a chance for it to be a fad, but it's here to stay now.

I have an Ultra Stick Lite that first flew with a brushed cobalt motor and 40 NiCd cells in 2003, just something I wanted to use, I had brushless motors that would work. It wasn't crazy power, but did what I wanted it to. A 12S6000 LiPo pack on the same motor flew it for two 12-15 minute flights without charging in 2004-2005 and would pull the airplane to 4000ft in under 6 minutes. I still have the airplane, the LiPo pack is dead, but it will probably end up with a spark ignition FS-200 on the nose. It's really just a matter of tight cash flow and what I have available. Today, a new 10S5000 pack costs only 100USD compared to the 500USD the first one would have cost. I'd love to get another Ultra Stick Lite airframe so I could have an electric and IC, but they are impossible to find. I'll probably have to build one.

Our clubs here also have a greater number of glow airplanes. But there is one hobby shop near Chicago that does the majority of their business in electric. There is also a HUGE number of electric flyers that don't fly at normal clubs, simply because they don't have to.

RE: Loss of cheap
 

Well, as far as economics, I have three Fox glow engines that I still fly regularly. They are 25 years old. I don't think a $50.00 to $200.00+ Lipoly can approach that...

I am sure the gasoline conversion engines I have will out live me! I don't have any false illusions about my batteries doing that.

AV8TOR

RE: Loss of cheap
 

None of that changes what people are actually spending money on.

RE: Loss of cheap
 

True. I just wish at least the magazines would spin off "electric airplane" coverage to new magazines, and keep the ones that used to report/write about gas and glow planes doing just that.

Everytime a magzine comes in the mail I get all excited, and then when I go to read it..... BLAH, 80% plus damn electric stuff.

AV8TOR

RE: Loss of cheap
 

The truth is the electric only mags, got combined with the regular stuff years back. Sport Flyer used to be Electric & Sailplane Modeler back in the day before Kiona even published a mainstream RC mag. FlyRC was created after the market couldn't support "E" only publications. So things are the way they are, again, because that's how they can actually sell what they print. RCM, RC Report are gone and they were way behind the times as far as electric.

The only magazine I get is Model Aviation. I've always read every column whether it related directly to my interests or not. There are always techniques to be learned. This month MA has a great write up on a fully molded carbon composite F2C control line diesel racer. While I may never use the techniques to build a CL model, I will put them to use. I haven't subscribed to a model mag since 2000 or so. If I could read Japanese I would subscribe to RC Air World.

RE: Loss of cheap
 

Now this is something I always do as well. It is amazing the tips you can pick up by reading everything. I also liked the magazine from Europe, can't remember the name right now, but it provided a whole different perspective on our sport. They tend to be more into older scale models than we do here in the states, among other perspectives. But, at something like 70 bucks for the subscription, I had to quit subscribing.

AV8TOR

RE: Loss of cheap
 

Here in the greater Houston area the electrics just aren't catching on. Sure, some show up each week but out of about 120 club members, at my regular club, less than ten pilots are flying electrics. That seems to be fairly consistent club to club here. I have three electrics myself but the cost and work of keeping the Lipo's going sends me to the field with the gassers 95% of the time. About the only electric bird I even mess with anymore is my foamie that I use to practice 3D. I use it to practice new stuff on before I try it on my big gassers.

RE: Loss of cheap
 

Well that's the trend I see around here. The electric "crush" is more in the media and suppliers hopes than it seems to be at the flying fields.

AV8TOR

RE: Loss of cheap
 

Like as has been said by others, I don't see that many electrics at the flying field but I consider that deceiving because many electrics are flown in one's back yard, the school playground, or the factory parking lot.

The guy I fly with always has his big glow and gas models at the flying field and we will stay out there all day but he lives in a rural area with a large treeless yard and flies his electrics at home. He has four nice 3D ones. He'll get out behind his barn at the end of the day when the wind dies down and fly two or three flights before it gets too dark. He has both built up ones and Depron foam ones. They are brushless with lipo batteries

RE: Loss of cheap
 

A fellow club memeber traded another member for a very nicely done slow poke 40. An electric setup was installed. The second guy prefers electric. After the first flight it burst into flames and was destroyed. The lipo pack was pierced by a poorly placed screw. It was sad. I am not saying electric is bad, just different. I would own any lipo batterie. You hear about fires but now I have seen one. Pretty bad stuff. What if it happened in the car or in the shop at home, game over? In my shop I ahve lots of flamables and reloading supplies. It would be tragic. The insurance company would likly tell to get lost. Besides, electrics are really expensive to get decent performance. Maybe for a park flyer in the front yard, maybe... Not larger stuff though. As things evolve that will probably change.

My current plaything has an ex-wacker motor and goes like a banshee. Hovers, unlimited vertical, all that stuff. I could not ask for more zip. The engine and the plane were free. I like free!

RE: Loss of cheap
 

I think the real bottom line driving this electric craze, besides the convenience factor for people that don't want to deal with engines, is a profit motive. I would imagine, and I am just guessing at the number here, that if an 80" gasser nets a 200% profit for a supplier, that a smaller electric plane, especially a foam one, nets about a 400% profit.

It would really, really be interesting to see what the "real" numbers are in that scenario...

Hey, I can see the deal on the "engine problem".... My own brother is biased towards electrics, solely because he is uncomfortable with gas engines. No matter how much I try to teach him, he just is not really comfortable tuning a gas or glow plane. Kind of embarrassing for a "gearhead" like me to have a brother that way, but there it is! (Hey, I love him anyway!)

AV8TOR

RE: Loss of cheap
 

Electric power technology is making rapid gains and performance goes up quite a bit every year.My engine builder bud had a good biz supplying a group of retirees in FLA, they all went to electric.I haven't had anyone ask about a conversion for so long I forgot how long it has been.

Theres more to it than tuning and such, less noise and conveinence and the perception of the "green factor" is all contributing to gas and nitro planes demise.( the "green factor" is debateable because the chemicals in batteries, both in manufacturing and disposal, and how the power generated to recharge batteries is generated...)

I can't stand the smell of rancid castor or the endless fiddling with needles, thats why I switched to gas,there are a lot of pluses to electric but at what cost?
Around here with a high population density, noise reduction is a necessity to keep people off your back.


If you look at the inroads that brushless motors and hi tech batteries are making you can see where rc is is headed, the only reason that electric isn't taking over already is that high power that matches gas or nitro applications is very expensive.

I'll stick with gas, but the electric guys may be onto something, the two stroke ban is just around the corner, the anti fun nazis will push it through with out facts.

RE: Loss of cheap
 

Yeah, anything I would have to say would be "politically incorrect", so I'll keep my mouth shut. I will be able to have my fun as I like it until I die because I live most of the time in Mexico. But even Mexico is starting to copy the USA in "political correctness" in many ways. What a world my poor little 4 year old daughter is inheriting....

AV8TOR

RE: Loss of cheap
 

OK... I fly ONLY gas or electric. I gave up on Glow about 6 or 7 years ago. After a day of flying, you don't have a drippy oily mess of a model to take home.

Your statement is true. A lipo can't last that long... but think about this... if you are flying that engine all the time, then how much $$$ in Glow fuel did you feed it?? Depending on the size... you could be drinking a couple gallons a month, and with the price of glow fuel these days... you would surpass the price of the battery.

As far as trying to fly big models on electric... that's just dumb. As soon as it gets big enough to fit a gas engine to it... then forget electrics. (Then burn Camping fuel to avoid the gas stink)

Right now, I don't have any 60 sized models in the hanger. They are all 15 sized and smaller (electric) or 100 sized, and bigger. (gas)


I feel your pain about loosing NitroPlanes. The thing that annoys me is looking though all the pages of models that are "out of stock." They need to pull the models that they don't intend to get back in stock.


Last thing... with the introduction of brushless, and Lipo's... Electric is here to stay.

RE: Loss of cheap
 

My rc boating friends point one of the other things that probably is factor and thats the numbers of modelers is declining and are being replaced by assemblers. A modeler can build anything,mod anything etc. where the assemblers take out a credit card and buy everything done for them, at most they bolt parts together.
There are less people practicing modeling skills that could teach the upcoming generation and that generation has less interest and less patience in learning how to build things, the instant gratification society we live in fuels this trend.

RE: Loss of cheap
 

Hey Tony, from one ex Latrober to another. I worked for Arnie P for many years up there before retiring to FL.

Ok as someone who does fly BIG electric birds, right now my biggest are 9 1/2', yes foot, wingspan birds.
Whoever thinks going big is too expensive doesn't do it.

I have a Top Flite Gold Corsair on the build table right now, and yes I do build and I assemble too. Anyhow, I have just under $200.00 in motor/esc/packs.
How much is the gas/glow version engine for this bird, plus your fuel? Can it spin a four blade prop?

My servos are 1/2 the price of Futaba or Hitec, and they have more power and features.

Overseas suppliers have brought out decent equipment and much lower prices then the so called name brand folks have and are becoming the place to shop.

Why spend $200.00 for an AXI or Hacker when I can get the same performance for 1/3 the price from Hobby King?

And yes shipping was expensive, but that too is going by the wayside as HK has opened their US based warehouse.

Sure you can build an expensive electric, just like you can build an expensive gas/glow bird. But you don't have too.

And if someone thinks an electric can't perform with a gas/glow, they have no clue how far electrics have advanced.

Dangerous batteries? The danger is in the person handling them. Same can be said for gas and glow fuel.


Heck other then my scratch builds, all my planes are converted gassers. Used to be they were too heavy for electric power, now it's nothing.

My club is mixed pretty evenly between gas/glow/electric. But I see a lot of the gas/glow folks are also flying electric at the same time.

I say to each their own, but don't knock what you don't know. And yes, I many moons ago flew those petrol powered birds.

Heck if you can't find a gas version, buy an electric and convert it. Shouldn't be that hard, we electric guys do it all the time with your gas birds.:D

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Air Age just changed "Backyard Flyer" to "Electric Flight". They are moving the bigger electric stuff to that magazine. They want to keep the content electric and glow/gas more separated, but couldn't with "Backyard Flyer".

RE: Loss of cheap
 

That's great news!!

AV8TOR

RE: Loss of cheap
 

AV8TOR, do not worry about the electrics taking over. Now that we are able to get small gassers, I think you will see s trend towards them. There is a lot of airplanes that did cost to much to fly in the 1.20 size airplanes. Now you can power them just as good with like a DLE20 instead of a 4 stroke glow that uses 30% nitro.

I think the .90-1.20 size airplanes will sell even better now. So the people that make them......will! Thats good for us. Capt,n PS I got a electric....at first they are interesting....but when you start buying expensive batteries & charger....the intrest kinda dies!

RE: Loss of cheap
 

I was at the flying field the other day, there were 6 gassers, 1 park flyer, and two 40 size electric conversion planes...