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Mag vs. electronic ignition?
I'm in the process of looking for a 3 to 4 c.i. engine to convert (see my post earlier). I've only converted one weed eater engine which turned out O.K. What are the advantages of the electronic ignition systems you guys are using vs. the plain ole magneto? Is there one electronic system better than the rest?
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RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
For me weight was and is the big thing. I also think my engines start easier and run smoother than ones I have done with a mag. Sure there are other things to deal with using electronic ignitions like batteries and sensors and another switch, but you can use those things to your advantage to balance a plane. I use CH ignitions in all mine. All use Syncrospark. I could run the standard ignition by them (no syncrospark) and save 30 or 40 dollars but if I ever had a box go bad I can swap anything out. Never had to yet and some are 2 years old. Also use Bosch caps on all mine as it eliminates a hose clamp on the plug for holding the ground wire.
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RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
Mag= cheap, heavier, lumpie idle and often harder to start
Electronic= more $$, lighter, smother idle with some sort of timing control, easier to start, usually more power. |
RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
Aha! More power, how so? Does it advance the timing or what. Good idle is nice. I have a big starter to turn that baby over! The weight may be important, but I usually have to add nose weight anyway.
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RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
A magneto is often a comprise, its not the best for full power or a smooth idle. and if its set up for max power then often the idle is very bad. There is also the drag from the magnets.
With a battery system you can build a mechincal system linked to the carb to change the timing so its right for idle ar WOT. The CH Syncro Sprak is a computer timing control that does it all for you with no moving parts. ORIGINAL: wsmalley Aha! More power, how so? Does it advance the timing or what. Good idle is nice. I have a big starter to turn that baby over! |
RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
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RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
Magneto engines are harder to start. The magneto on an engine in the 3 or 4 cubic inch size is quite heavy--even when trimmed.
Magneto engines idle rough. Thats shakes the airframe. Shortens the life of the airframe. Electronic ignition systems are much easier to start because they retard the timing back to 3 or 4 degrees before top dead center during starting. That keeps you from getting your fingers whacked. Then when the engine starts and idles--the ignition system advances the timing according to crankshaft speed. When you push the throttle stick forward--the engine speeds up and the ignition sensor advances the timing some more. It keeps advancing the timing as you push the throttle stick forward. When the engine is at approx. 4500RPM the ignition system is advanced all the way to 28 degrees before top dead center and firing at optimum for high end running. This type of ignition system is called a Synchrospark. You do need another switch and battery for electronic ignition. And you do need to be careful about where you place that ignition module in relation to your receiver and servos and other bateries. 12" spacing is a general rule of thumb. I like electronig ignition. I have even put it on Ryobi 31cc engines and 38cc Craftsman chainsaw engines. It's not necessary to have a Synchrospark ignition on these smaller engines. They don't have a lot of compression and can be easily hand started or with a chicken stick. The ignition timing is fixed at 28 degrees. So, idle is about the same as a magneto--a little rougher with a fixed timing ignition. They work fine on most engines up to about 40cc--but thats just my opinion. I use fixed timing on weedies and I use Synchrospark on anything over 40cc. Synchrospark usually costs about $40 more because there is an additional chip inside the ignition module. Which one is best? C&H and RC Ignitions units both work very well. I like C&H for standard engines like Zenoah G-62 or Zenoah GT-80 or a Ryobi weedie. They just bolt on. No machining is necessary and you can do it yourself. I like Ralphs (RCIGN1) ignitions for custom jobs. He does great machine work and his ignitions work equally as well as the C&H. Ralph is more set up to do custom machine work and custom conversions. He does great work and his prices are great. C&H is more into just selling ignitions that you bolt on yourself. If you have a standard engine, as I mentionded, C&H has done the conversion already and they have a bolt-on system that you can install in less than 1/2 hour. For a custom or a one-off engine, I'd contact Ralph and see if he wants to do it. He's done a million of them, so he may already know how to do yours. What you got to convert? Stihl? Husqvarna? Poulan? Homelite? |
RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
ORIGINAL: Rcpilet Magneto engines are harder to start. The magneto on an engine in the 3 or 4 cubic inch size is quite heavy--even when trimmed. Magneto engines idle rough. Thats shakes the airframe. Shortens the life of the airframe. Electronic ignition systems are much easier to start because they retard the timing back to 3 or 4 degrees before top dead center during starting. That keeps you from getting your fingers whacked. Then when the engine starts and idles--the ignition system advances the timing according to crankshaft speed. When you push the throttle stick forward--the engine speeds up and the ignition sensor advances the timing some more. It keeps advancing the timing as you push the throttle stick forward. When the engine is at approx. 4500RPM the ignition system is advanced all the way to 28 degrees before top dead center and firing at optimum for high end running. This type of ignition system is called a Synchrospark. You do need another switch and battery for electronic ignition. And you do need to be careful about where you place that ignition module in relation to your receiver and servos and other bateries. 12" spacing is a general rule of thumb. I like electronig ignition. I have even put it on Ryobi 31cc engines and 38cc Craftsman chainsaw engines. It's not necessary to have a Synchrospark ignition on these smaller engines. They don't have a lot of compression and can be easily hand started or with a chicken stick. The ignition timing is fixed at 28 degrees. So, idle is about the same as a magneto--a little rougher with a fixed timing ignition. They work fine on most engines up to about 40cc--but thats just my opinion. I use fixed timing on weedies and I use Synchrospark on anything over 40cc. Synchrospark usually costs about $40 more because there is an additional chip inside the ignition module. Which one is best? C&H and RC Ignitions units both work very well. I like C&H for standard engines like Zenoah G-62 or Zenoah GT-80 or a Ryobi weedie. They just bolt on. No machining is necessary and you can do it yourself. I like Ralphs (RCIGN1) ignitions for custom jobs. He does great machine work and his ignitions work equally as well as the C&H. Ralph is more set up to do custom machine work and custom conversions. He does great work and his prices are great. C&H is more into just selling ignitions that you bolt on yourself. If you have a standard engine, as I mentionded, C&H has done the conversion already and they have a bolt-on system that you can install in less than 1/2 hour. For a custom or a one-off engine, I'd contact Ralph and see if he wants to do it. He's done a million of them, so he may already know how to do yours. What you got to convert? Stihl? Husqvarna? Poulan? Homelite? QUOTE FROM ABOVE:This type of ignition system is called a Synchrospark. CH Electronics owns the rights to Synchrospark but this is not the only company that offers autoadvanceing CD Ignitions.So you can't actually say that an autoadvancing unit is CH. What a primative world we live in....................... |
RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
Thats total BS. RCIGN buys Synchrospark chips for his ignition units.
It's a CHIP and C&H doesn't have exclusive rights to it. |
RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
Some flywheel mags have a certain amout of spark advance. Put a timimg light on one and you will see. You will find data on one of the small engine web-sites also explaing that. I will look for it again. ALSO the flywheel has a purpose....to absorb and smooth out power impulses. In my opinion.....I think if you remove a flywheel and go with a fixed ignition....the engine will run NOT as smooth as with flywheel. Good food for thought!!!! Capt,n[8D]
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RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
Pilot,
I beleive that just the name is copywrited by CH, not the technology. Dave |
RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
Add to what RCpilet said, thanks, I have never used stock Zenoah flywheels for conversions...ALL my conversions use lightrweight 6061 hubs on the crank with 2024 prop hubs bolted to the 6061 part on the crank or screwed to the threads on the end.
I have ALWAYS the past made my own circuits...Guaranteed for life...YO moderators, I AM NOT TRYING to SELL on the forum.. THIS IS FOR EXPLANATION ONLY..... When my circuits started mysteriously going bad I made a deal with my good friend Bill at C&H to use his circuits...I still have the lifetime guarantee....I use the syncro module...You COULD call it autoadvancing but TECHNICALLY it RETARDS from the 28 degree BTDC setting at the start...3W, DA, and some others auto advance.... |
RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
And I learned of your know-it-all knowledge in my own forum with the Zenoah hubs on a Poulan.Newby,LOL.Maybe to this forum.I guess its your 2 cents worth......Its real funny how
any ignition other than ch or yours is crap.Did you ever think that maybe there is a better one. Well there is!,and I guess thats what your really upset about.Yeah,its total BS that you hade to say anything at all.My point was that CH owns the rights to syncrospark and all autoadvancing ignitions are not syncrospark.(AUTOADVANCE)="The engine gains advancement in timing as rpm's increase".The same as any ignition or distributor does.Thats my two cents worth.[:@] |
RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
ORIGINAL: TIGITRIGHT And I learned of your know-it-all knowledge in my own forum with the Zenoah hubs on a Poulan.Newby,LOL.Maybe to this forum.I guess its your 2 cents worth........Face to face I mite have a few more things to say to you. |
RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
Recheck the forum,,,,,,,edited.My manors sometimes get congested.Please excuse me.:D
Its pure animosity.............I drive my car just like this. |
RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
hostile?[sm=71_71.gif]............see post #12. Where in this thread did I TIGITRIGHT say anything about STOCK ZENOAH FLYWHEELS????????????????Don't point your finger at me.This guys an...well there goes my manors again.
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RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
i think everyone here has let thier tempers get away from them. please remember that this is a place to exchange ideas not to brow beat each other with semantics.
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RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
RCIGN1,
I would like to get a G38 converted to electronic ignition. I tried calling you but only got your answering machine. If you can please call me at 803-894-4621 (tonight) or 803-920-4775 (during work hours). Thanks! Jerry Gable |
RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
FWIW.... C&H does NOT own the rights to the name synchrospark(sp)....
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RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
I would like to know if I am right or wrong on post 8 . Will a engine run smother with a flywheel ignition or without a flywheel, but having fixed electronic ignition on each. No advance ...no retard. Just want some simple opinions. Because I do not know and I admit it. Capt,n[:-] Edited...had wrong post #
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RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
Hi Captin
Not much difference either way, but an engine with EI can be idled slightly below the frequency where the shakes start, giving the illusion of a smoother idle...IMO ;) |
RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
RCIGN1: What you say does make sense to me. I noticed with the Gas/Glow fuel mix I could Idle the 25cc Homelite engine lower than with flywheel ignition, and the idle does seem smooth there. But the homelite with no flywheel does have kinda bad vibes at about 1/4 throttle. Best Regards, Capt,n
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RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
I cleaned up this thread. I even deleted some of my own posts.
Let's stay on track and have a good discussion of the pros and cons of mag vs electronic. |
RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
As I understands it, it is all about flame speed (the speed at which the atomized fuel burns (explodes) at). All being equal, the speed stays constant irrespective of the RPMs. Should you ignite it too early the power peak occurs before the piston reaches TDC and that in turn opposes the inertia of the prop & flywheel, which explains the vibrations.
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RE: Mag vs. electronic ignition?
Please read some of this imfo about advance and retard of spark on mag ignition. Capt,n http://www.walbro.com/SearchResults.aspx?srch=ignition http://www.walbro.com/SearchResults.aspx?srch=ignition
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