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Esky Helicopters Discuss the line of Esky electric helis in here including the Honey Bee, Lama, Belt CP, etc

Esky honey bee CP

Old 05-02-2005, 06:54 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

The battery thats on there i built from seperate cells, but i have another pack made by electrifly that i got from tower hobbies, a nice one that has overcharge protection.

anyways with the first video you see how the head speed is slower, while it was like that i tried the DD tail upgrade with the 1500mah lipo and the DD tail didnt even last 10 flights, and yes i used the orange prop that came with it and had it turned the right way.

But now i can see why some people complain about tails burning out so fast and others dont have problems. battery weight and/or pitch settings.
Old 05-02-2005, 07:29 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

I see. I have also seen many people complain about tail motors burning out but I've had no problems at all!
The reviews from the people who bought the dd tail motor stated that you needed to break in the motor before flight.


I just checked towerhobbies and they had the 1500 mah battery for $45. At heli-fever, they sell the 1200 Mah for around $22, I think so I might just get that.
Old 05-02-2005, 09:38 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

With the tail motors, I think if you break them in and use a heat sink they should last a while. I usually get anywhere from 2 weeks to a month out of a tail motor. Then at some point they start getting weaker and you need to replace them. To break them in I just hook them to a AA battery and run it for 30min or so. Just make sure it's running in the right direction.

Casipak,
I'm not sure, but I think you can buy the spectra module later and plug it in. Look at Hitec's website. They probably have info on it.
Old 05-02-2005, 09:48 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Also, I think that the Eclipse 7 uses modules rather than crytals, like the Futaba 9CHP. Again, check their website, www.hitecrcd.com.

Modules are a little box that plugs into the TX and contains the crystal. So the TX is designed to let you pop in a module to change frequency. Or the spectra module where you can dial any frequency (on your band). Technically, it's illegal to change TX crystals. So they came up with the module thing to allow supporting different channels with the same TX.
Old 05-02-2005, 11:02 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Anyone have the Esky and the dragonfly #35?
Which is more stable in flight?
Which is more durable in crashes?


Anyone gone brushless on their Esky?
Old 05-03-2005, 06:17 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

The seller just told me that the radio had a 56 channel module. At first I didn't understand what he meant but now I do, thanks.


FlybyPDX,
go to electric rc helis forum and type in esky brushless. Scroll down and there will be a thread on how to go brushless.


So if I get an 11.1 v 1800 Mah battery, I won't increase the chance of frying up anything on the heli, I'll just get a lot more power?
Old 05-03-2005, 08:39 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

So if I get an 11.1 v 1800 Mah battery, I won't increase the chance of frying up anything on the heli, I'll just get a lot more power?
You will not get more power. If the 1800mah battery were the same weight as a 1200mah, you would get longer flight times. Unfortunately, it's a balancing act. The higher the mah rating, the heavier the battery, the harder the motors have to work to lift the weight, the more likely a motor is to burn out.

I run with 1200mah batteries. Seems to be a good compromise between weight and flight time.
Old 05-03-2005, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Hey guys, I'm trying to get my HB2 to work with my 9c w/o success. I have a futaba crystal in the receiver, but the light blinks from red-green. Could anyone provide some setup tips?
Old 05-03-2005, 11:48 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

You need to verify fubuta crystal works in esky rx. Could be that Futuba is dual conversion but Esky is single conversion.

Also you should try reversing the channel and also end point adjustments. You may be giving it full throttle when it should be 0. You may need epa so that the ESC will arm. I had to set about -16% epa on my optics 6 to get the ESC to arm when I did it.


I have a pitch guage, I've measure the full range of pitch movement for the hb2 to be about 24 degrees. It can go from -12 to +12 or -8 to +14 etc.

Head speed. There is a sweet spot for it. You don't want it too low but you also don't want it too high. I don't know the optimum HS but most every heli uses 1800-2200 rpm. Increasing the HS makes the heli more stable and requires less work from the gyro to make corrections. Do a simple test yourself, on very low throttle so that the tail motor is turning. Violently turn the helicopter, you will observe the tail motor suddently spin up very fast. This is bad for the motor. So a stable helicopter is good for the tail motor. But higher head speed isn't! When you increase the HS, you will not reduce the torque. This is not the torque produced by the motor where higher speed = lower torque. This is the torque the tail motor must counter in order to keep the same heading. Torque in this case increases as HS is increased.
So you have 2 things working against each other. The optimum HS is dependant on these 2 factors.

I use 1800mah and never had any problem with my tail motor yet. There is also a thread where a pilot had flown several session with stock HB2 each lasting for the duration of the cell pack in one day and not had any problem with the stock tail motor. All he used was a heat sink. If you don't have a heat sink on it, get one right a way.

Last thing, heavier helicopter is also more stable then ligher ones. If you don't do 3D, then lowering your COG will also improve its stability.
Old 05-03-2005, 05:07 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

So what, there is no point in getting a more powerful lipo?
I did see a special light weight 1500 Mah at helihobby and they said flight times will be longer. Will a more powerful battery supply enough juice if you use more powerful motors that require more energy?
Old 05-03-2005, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Don't think of it as more power, think of it as more capacity (ie. 32oz. big gulp vs. 12oz. can). A 1800mah li-po has more capacity than a 1200mah. So you'll get a longer flight time. But you're not going to get more power. The motor and ESC are going to draw how ever many amps they draw, regardless of the battery size. However, if the battery is heavier the motors are going to have to work harder to lift it. So you'll burn up motors faster. As pwterry said earlier, the 1200mah li-po's seem to be the best compromise for the HB2. If you can find a lightweight 1500mah li-po that would be cool. Longer flight time for the same weight.
Old 05-03-2005, 09:30 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

ptarp,
I've been using my futaba 7chp with my HB2 for a while now. Works great. I got a berg single converion crystal wihich works. Got it from helihobby, but a bunch of people carry it. I posted a link a bit earlier on this thead.
Old 05-04-2005, 06:28 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

rbiasi,
the berg single conversion will work with hitec too?
Old 05-04-2005, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Hitec is dual conversion. Atleast it is the case with my supreme 8 rx.
Old 05-04-2005, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

casipak,

One caveat about what tnd2000 said ... If your HiTec receiver is a "Feather 4-ch" model, then it's a single-conversion, not dual.

I tried my HiTec Feather crystal in my Esky HB receiver with no luck, so I'm guessing that:

If the Berg crystal is compatible with the Esky receiver --- and the HiTec crystal isn't compatible with the Esky --- then that would imply that the Berg crystal isn't compatible with the HiTec receiver.

They most likely either use a different crystal fundamental frequency (resulting in a different multiplier) or a different IF frequency (with 10.7 mHz pretty common as a 1st IF in some communications receivers)

Rick
Old 05-04-2005, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

I just have the regular hb2 receiver and for a radio, I wanna get the eclipse 7. It's channel 56 and my receiver is channel 54. I was thinking of getting the single conversion crystal for the receiver on channel 54. Will that work?



What exactly does using a different crystal fundamental frequency or a different IF frequency mean?
Old 05-04-2005, 10:19 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

I assume that's a typo, but if the TX is on channel 56 you'll need to get a crystal for the RX on channel 56.
Old 05-04-2005, 11:02 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

casipak,

rbiasi is correct, and I also assume it was a typo, but but TX and RX channels must match.

As far as the fundamental frequency and IF frequencies are concerned, that gets into receiver theory of operation, but here goes an attempt at a quickee explanation ...

A single conversion receiver mixes the incoming frequency (72.xx mHz which is the channel so-and-so signal from your transmitter), with the receivers crystal frequency (which is usually multiplied a number of times and can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer) to derive a third frequency, (usually 10.7 mHz which is called the IF or Intermediate Frequency), and then it processes this down-converted 10.7 mHz information (drives servos or whatever). If the receiver performs this conversion only once, as I just described, it is called a "single conversion" receiver.

The crystal multiplier and IF frequency may vary depending on the manufacturer, so this partially explains why not all crystals are compatible. Some may multiply the crystal frequency by 24, and then use a 10.7 mHz IF, and another may multiply it by 10 and use 10.5 mHz IF. It a choice of the manufacturer. Regardless however, the actual fundamental frequency of the crystal that you plug in is not the actual frequency that you are trying to receive, but may only be on the order of 3.xxx or 4.xxx mHz.

A dual conversion receiver does the same thing, except it does it twice ... once to convert it down to the 10.7 mHz 1st IF frequency using the crystal oscillator as above, and then again using a second mixer and oscillator to convert it down to the 455 kHz 2nd IF frequency (which is a free running oscillator and does not require a second crystal), and then it processes the information. (I believe that most dual-conversion recievers are fairly standard and use 10.7 and 455 as their two IF frequencies.)

The main advantage of a dual-conversion over a single-conversion is that they are more immune to nearby strong interfering signals (other RC transmitters on different channels) better than a single-conversion.

One disadvantage is that they are more complex (i.e. expensive) and usually larger in size because of the additional circuitry.

Hope this didn't bore you to sleep.

Rick





Old 05-04-2005, 12:42 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

kermit,
Thank you! I've always been curious about what the heck single and dual conversion meant. I had some hunches that were WAY off base. Now I know. Makes sense! That's what I love about the forums. I'm constantly learning new stuff.
Old 05-04-2005, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

rbiasi,

Glad it didn't put you to sleep:-)

Keep in mind that the multiplier numbers I used (10 & 24), and the IF frequencies (10.7 and 455) were just numbers I pulled outta my ear for sake of explanation since I don't know for sure what the RC industry uses. I've never gotten a schematic for any of my RC equipment to find out, but 10.7 and 455 are pretty much industry standard for communications receivers.

Sort of the same thing applies for the crystal controlled transmitters whereas the actual transmitter output frequency is most likely going to be a multiple of the crystal frequency, but I guess you could call them "direct conversion" since they don't really convert anything, they just pick the multiple of the crystal (harmonic) that they need, and transmit only that. For instance a transmitter operating on 72.850 mHz (ch-39 I think), might use a multiple of 8, so it's crystal frequency would actually be 9.10625 mHz (9.10625 x 8 = 72.850)

RC transmitters (and receivers) that use the "frequency modules" don't use crystals for frequency selection, but instead use what is called a VCO and a PLL (Voltage Controlled Oscillator and Phase Locked Loop) to create a "Frequency Synthesizer", also known in "Madison Avenue Jargon" as a "digital tuner". This is also the way it's done in your (digital) TV's and car Stereos. (However they do have one permanently installed crytal that is used for a frequency reference).

I can't understand how the "frequency module" type RC transmitters can command such a high price since they pretty much use the same circuitry as any $10 digital table radio, it's just more "stable". I guess because of all the FCC type acceptance crap they have to go through to meet specs, they have jack up the price accordingly.

Well enough of my blather ... I've drifted way off helis.

Rick

Old 05-04-2005, 03:59 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Yeah, it was a typo. Thanks for the info. I understood most of it
My stock lipo is really screwed up. The heli stops flying normally by which I mean that on full throttle trim and full throttle, it'll get up an inch or two off the ground. Dd you guys have the same problem with your stock batteries or is it my bad luck?
Old 05-04-2005, 07:17 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

casipak,

Did the battery "get that way" after a while, or has it been like that since you got it?

Is your whole "package" (heli, batteries, etc) original, and what you are dealing with right now, or have you had success with other aftermarket batteries and just can't can't go back to the stock battery that came with it. Was just curious if you have another battery or batteries with the same specs that do (does) work ok.

My original batteries were 8.4 volt hydrides and I was "underwhelmed". I got a pair of 2-cell lipos and am tickled. Still can't fly, but spend a lot less time swapping batteries between crashes.

Rick
Old 05-04-2005, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

ok i need alittle help here from anyone that has gone brushless main on the honey bee 2 with a himax 4100,


what size pinion did you use to get best results? i have the stock 8T on there i do have a 12T sitting around somewhere but im not sure what to try.

im getting 10 minutes flight time with complete brushless setup, which is 2 minutes shorter than with a brushed main


i know the 1000mah battery im using probably cant source enough current, but figure my tail pulls 3 amps and the himax 2015-4100 pulls 9 i'm going to need at least what a 1200mah battery with 10c discharge? And technically that would be borderline wouldnt it?

-edit-

by the way this is how i tried to figure out the headspeed, someone correct me if im wrong. i have a himax 2015-4100, so i have a 3 lipo pack at 11.1 volts, 11.1 x 4100 = 45,510, now the honey bee 2 has 144 tooth spur gear ( i think anyways, i just counted 18 teeth between 2 of the spokes and then just multiplied) , it has an 8 tooth pinion, so the pinion has to turn 18 times for 1 rotation of the main spur so 45000 divided by 18 = roughly 2500rpm does this sound roughly correct?
Old 05-04-2005, 08:40 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

So how does it fly? I think that the HB2 main gear is 140 tooth. The math sounds right, but I'm no expert. I remember somebody posted an online calculator a while back. I'll see if I can find it.
Old 05-04-2005, 09:01 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

paedbo,

Are you sure about the 9 amp and 3 amp current figures?

I have been looking hard at getting a Hummingbird 3D Pro and found it offered in a $199 barebones kit with a HiMax Lightning Brushless motor and PHX-10 controller. The controller for that rig sorta implies that the total max continuous main and tail load (single motor shaft drive) would be 10 amps or less, and I doubt that they would ship a package that runs continously near max ratings. Could be that you are using less current than you figured. 10 minutes on a 1000 mah battery would theoretically be 6 amps, but less in real life, probably closer to 5.

As an extreme comparison, If I anchor my HoneyBee FP (brushed main and tail) to my workbench, and run it full throttle, my Fluke says it draws less than 3 amps if I remember correctly. That was with the 8.4 volt hydrides ... I probably could've drawn a little more with a 3-cell Lipo.

While I'm running my mouth here, and not speaking from experience, I was thinking about the gear ratio change. Going from a 8T to a 12T pinion might yield the same effect as climbing a hill on a 10-speed bike and shifting to a higher gear. (Makes my legs cramp to think about it.) I guess if the motor/rotor combination is more efficient at a lower rpm, it might just improve it, so lacking the experience of someone who has done it, I guess the only way to know is try it.

Rick


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