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Esky Helicopters Discuss the line of Esky electric helis in here including the Honey Bee, Lama, Belt CP, etc

Esky honey bee CP

Old 05-04-2005, 09:08 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

kermitdafrog,
I'm just using the lipo and charger that came with the heli, everything's stock 3 cell 11.1 1200 Mah. The battery got this way over time. When it first arrived, everything seemed to be in order. Now I get around 4-5 minutes of normal flying.
Old 05-04-2005, 09:09 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

paedbo,

Depending on the load, you may not get the rated rpm/volt, so it will probably be lower, but the math sounds good:-)

rbiasi,

The HB FP is also a 140t main gear. I found out the hard way when I ordered a main gear from a GWS Dragonfly last week and it turned out to be 120 teeth. Assuming there was a place to put the third servo, how much pain in the neck (expense) would it be to change the FP to a CP? Would it be worth it, or should I just go ahead and get the Hummingbird 3D Pro?

rick
Old 05-04-2005, 09:14 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

casipak,

I wished my normal flights were 4 or 5 minutes. Mine are more like 15 seconds and then I break something. I "used" up my last set of main blades tonight, so I'm back in the "parts order and wait for them to arrive" mode again.

The charger that comes with them doesn't seem like it could be very exotic or sophisticated based on the cost. My first guess would be that the battery may have been "abused" over time using the furnished "wall wart" charger. The Lipos seem to be a lot "crankier" about how they are charged compared to a NiCad or Hydride. Even the Hydrides are cranky if you don't break them in with a slow overnight (about 60 ma) charge. I was only getting a couple of minutes out of mine (hydrides) until I put a slow overnight charge on them, then they sprang to life.

Rick
Old 05-04-2005, 09:38 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

ok thanks guys, i thought the 4100 himax was 100watt motor, so on 11.1v that would be around 9 amp max draw. the tail i just figured in 2 or 3 amps to be safe,


the motor is running 150F and the tail fiegeo (sp?) is running about 120 F at the end of a full pack,


i know im using 1000mah lipo, but when the light comes on telling me its reached 9 volts and i put it back on the charger the triton is telling me its taking 750mah, so your right i guess it would be using 4.5 amps or somwhere close to that, but this is just basic hovering, I already know the battery cant handle anything more than that because i lose tail heading with moderetaly hard throttle, but like i said im using the crappy esky lipo which is rated what 6c? Alright ill try to go for a 10c pack and see what happens, anyone know where i can get the best prices on a 1200mah 3s lipo? i looked at maxamps, but they dont have anything between 1000mah and 1200,



i bumped it to low timing advance on the phx 10 and i was able to get 12 minutes out of it this time which is the same i was getting with the mabuchi 370 brushed motor. However i did lower the head speed a bit this time around not too much though.

It pretty much handles the same as it did with the mabuchi, but like i said before it has so much power under hard throttle i can yank the tail out, ( which could be happening from the poor current rate of the stock esky battery)
Old 05-04-2005, 10:05 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

paebo,

Check out [link]http://www.rc-dymond.com/order_batteries_lipol.htm[/link] . I bought two Kokams from them. They have some 79 gram 3S 1100, 1200 or 1300 (house brand) for $29, and additional 3S sizes up to 2000 mah.

Rick
Old 05-04-2005, 10:59 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

kermit,
I'm pretty sure that the frame, landing gear, boom, and tail assembly are the same for the FP and the CP. If the FP main gear is 140t then that is probably also the same. So you would need to get the CP rotor head assembly (center hub, rotor head, paddle control frame, paddle links), an extra servo, and the linkage. The expensive part would be getting the 4-in-1 controller which runs about $60. So your probably talking about $120 worth of parts to convert it. I think you can probably find the whole HB2 CP for that price these days. Some places seem to be having fire sales now that the CP2 is out.

On the other hand the Hummingbird 3D Pro looks like a nice heli. And it probably handles a lot better than the HB2. So you might want to put the money towards that. Another heli to look at right now is the ARK-400. Very similar to the t-rex, but it's supposed to be insanely stable. From the initial reports it sounds like the best e-heli to learn on. Check out x400tuning.com.

Thanks for the li-po link. I ripped one of my 1200mah packs apart last week. Need to get a new one.
Old 05-05-2005, 06:12 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

I want to get the charger from heli-fever. It charges at about 400Mah at the slow speed and 800 Mah at the fast.

They got real cheap batteries at the link!
Thanks kermit


That kokam 1200 Mah 11.1 volts for $30 seems nice, and it weighs 10 g less that the same dymond battery.

Any other place that sells slow chargers because I don't want to ruin the next battery.
Old 05-05-2005, 06:46 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

rbiasi,

I'm sure you're probably right about the conversion cost. I don't know what the difference is, if any, between my existing HB FP controller and the HB CP controller unless the CP controller provides for some sort of CCPM mixing to avoid the cost of a computer radio for the RTF versions. I'm thinking that the controller for my HB FP would work since all I would need would be it's existing receiver, esc, bec, gyro and tail/main mix capabilities. The CCPM mixing part would be handled by my TXAS radio. Even the remaining parts would make it uneconomical compared to an upgrade, so I guess I'll just keep patching it as it is and wait on the 3D pro.

Thanks for the ARK-400 info ... I'll start nosing around regarding that one too since I'm in the shopping mode.

I've started setting aside parts in anticipation of getting the 3D Pro and now have four HS-55 servos, and a Gyro, so all I guess that remains is the 6-ch receiver. Sme of the things that mechanically attracted me to the 3D are: the single motor, shaft drive tail rotor with servo pitch control, partial aluminum chassis, CNC aluminum rotor head, and freewheeling main gear as standard equipment. The bare bone heli with no motors is $129 and with the HiMax brushless motor and PHX-10 controller is $70 more which seems like a pretty good deal since the motor/controller alone is typically $100.

Rick

Old 05-05-2005, 07:01 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

casipak,

That mention of slow charging applied more to the initial charge for a new hydride battery than to Lithium batteries. I was just mentioning it to point out that all battery chemistries seem to have their own quirk(s).

I think as long as you get a decent Lithium charger and don't try to charge above 1C, you should be fine.

I'm just not sure what the included wall wart chargers that come with the RTF setups charge at, and how closely the voltage is regulated (if at all). They may be "close" to 1C, but for lithiums, if it's over 1C it's not supposed to be good for long battery life.

My charger didn't break the bank. I got an Apache 1215 and can be set with jumpers for 1 to 3 cells, and up to 1500 ma. It normally sells for about $50. I ordered the next cheaper model initially for $24.95, they were out of stock, so the guy sent me the $50 charger for the $25 price. My plan is to most likely get the Triton when I feel like I outgrow this one, but so far it does just fine.

Rick
Old 05-05-2005, 07:48 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP


ORIGINAL: kermitdafrog

casipak,

I wished my normal flights were 4 or 5 minutes. Mine are more like 15 seconds and then I break something. I "used" up my last set of main blades tonight, so I'm back in the "parts order and wait for them to arrive" mode again.

The charger that comes with them doesn't seem like it could be very exotic or sophisticated based on the cost. My first guess would be that the battery may have been "abused" over time using the furnished "wall wart" charger. The Lipos seem to be a lot "crankier" about how they are charged compared to a NiCad or Hydride. Even the Hydrides are cranky if you don't break them in with a slow overnight (about 60 ma) charge. I was only getting a couple of minutes out of mine (hydrides) until I put a slow overnight charge on them, then they sprang to life.

Rick

I'm no expert, but you should consider the Kyosho M24 blades. They are extremely durable and really take a beating. I have had several blade strikes on walls, chairs, and just about everything inbetween and I am still on the orginal pair. Got them at Tower Hobbies for $9.99. But be warned...they will put a nice slice in the wall...lol. Just a thought.
Old 05-05-2005, 08:05 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

crusher,

I did a search on tower for "Rotor Blades" and couldn't find them, and the only reference to M24 that I saw was a tail rotor blade. For the $9.99 price, it sounds like they could be for a CP heli which wouldn't do my FP much good:-)

Rick
Old 05-05-2005, 08:55 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Kermit,
I forgot about the TX, you would need that too! Guess it's a bit expensive to convert (rotor head $40, servo $17, 4-in-1 $60, TX $40 ... damn!). But if you have a computer TX then that wouldn't be necessary. As far as I can tell the CCPM and revo mixing are done in the Esky CP TX. So I'm not really sure what the diff is between the 3-in-1 and 4-1in-1. The 4-in-1 is a 6 channel RX even though only three servos plug into it (on channels 1, 2, and 5). Is the 3-in-1 4 channel? You need at least a 5 channel RX for CCPM since heli TXs use channel 1 ail, 2 elev, 3 throttle, 4 rudder, 5 pitch (and 6 for gyro sensetivity if your gyro supports it). Although I guess you could do a custom mix to squeeze it into 4 channels since I don't think channel 4 gets used for the tail on the Honeybees.

Yeah, the Hummingbird Pro 3D looks like a sweet little heli. Price is compelling too. If you don't know about it yet, check out the Century Hummingbird forum at runryder.com. It covers all of the HBs, but there is a lot of discussion there about the 3D Pro. You can see what setups people are running and what problems they're having.

Rich
Old 05-05-2005, 09:12 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP


ORIGINAL: kermitdafrog

crusher,

I did a search on tower for "Rotor Blades" and couldn't find them, and the only reference to M24 that I saw was a tail rotor blade. For the $9.99 price, it sounds like they could be for a CP heli which wouldn't do my FP much good:-)

Rick
Hermitdafrog, here is the link. You have to pull up the heli it's self and look at the replacement parts. They are FP blades. I'm using then until I gain confidence to go inverted.



http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=KYOE07**&P=Z
Old 05-05-2005, 11:36 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

rbiasi,

I think if I did the conversion, I'd be good to go for everything except the head and its linkage, so $40 might do it. My main question is ... is the frame different? I don't see how a third servo would mount on my FP frame unless it was back to back with the servo that is already aft of the mainshaft, and if so, I'm not sure what ccpm arrangement (120, or 90 degree) you'd end up with.

My Futaba 6AXS, even though it was designed as an aircraft radio, does have a heli mix mode and supports three or four ccpm swashplate configurations. When you select heli mode, the two programmable mixers disappear from the menu, so their functions are probably used by the heli ccpm mixes. It also has idle up, throttle hold, hover pitch, and revo, but only one programmable point on the pitch curve instead of the typical three or more of a heli radio.

When I first got the heli, I pretty much left the Esky radio in the box and went to my Futaba 'cause I needed the ATV function to keep from overcontrolling, and I found the trim memory a nice touch one I got it trimmed. I haven't used the heli mode yet since it's not needed for the FP.

I think the 3-in-1 and 4-in-one are one and the same, just different names. Mine has two "black boxes" stuck together with servo tape. One box is the 6-channel receiver, of which only 1, 2, 3, and 4 are used, and the other box is the esc/mixer/ bec/ gyro. They can be unplugged from each other and are separable, and in fact I used a GWS PHA-01 mixer with the Esky receiver for a while when waiting for mine to come back from the factory.

Thanks for the tip on RunRyder for tips on the pro ... I'll check it out.

Rick
Old 05-05-2005, 11:54 AM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Crusher,

I see it now ... thanks. The bad news is that they are out of stock. I'll also need to come up with some other "gotta have it's" to help justify their shipping cost (which I'm thinking was around $7 or so minimum when I ordered from them a couple of weeks ago.) They gave me a coupon for $20 off of any $50 or larger order, which is pretty unheard of for them, so I got another HS-55 servo and a GWS Gyro for the upcoming 3D Pro.

Good luck on the inverted flight. I think when I can finally hover out a pack nose out, I'm gonna throw a party and take a week off. Right now I'm grounded until I get new blades, and I apparently bought the last set of (Venom) blades in Charleston a week or so ago at a premium price ($20) I have now gone through three sets of mains, and am on second tail rotor. This doesn't count one main link and re-epoxying the skids and boom several times. Oh yeah, and the pin sheared in the drive gear, so I had to fix that. It had slop in it when it was new, so I anticipated that happening.

Part of the reason I'm wanting to go to CP is because of head speed. This thing seems like it needs a little more rpm to keep from getting into the death wobble sometimes, (not always), so it's kinda unpredictable which doesn't help my learning curve much.

Rick
Old 05-05-2005, 12:56 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Kermit...just break down and buy the cheap esky cp rtf. I am very impressed with this cheap heli. Not once have I had the wobbles. Even with the kyosho blades and slower head speed flying as a fp it is very smooth. I'm still in the learning mode too. It's kinda hard to learn on these crappy NiMH's, but it keeps me close to the ground for now. I've only broken the front part of the skids and that is it, only being 3' - 4' above the ground. I've even had it flopping around on the floor like a wounded seal because I forgot to flip the 3d switch back to normal...[:@]... and it still didn't strip any of the gears. Guess I'm just lucky.

Oh, and thanks for explaining about the single conversion.
Old 05-05-2005, 01:08 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Crusher,

If you decide to go to Lipolys, you'll be impressed at the difference ... even with the 2 cell guys.

Roger on the single conversion ... my pleasure.

I just put two sets of the blades you recommended at Tower on backorder, so now I'll sit back and wait. I Forgot about the $3.99 Parts Express shipping rate.

If I were to do the esky cp, I'd probably do the bare bones since I have everything else, and don't need another transmitter. I'm still trying to make a decision. In the meantime, I at least have this one to mess with, and I have one set of wounded blades I put back on last night and it will lift off. Part of one tip was missing, so I trimmed another orphan blade to match it and balanced them, so maybe that will last until the others get here.

Rick
Old 05-05-2005, 01:28 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

is the frame different? I don't see how a third servo would mount on my FP frame unless it was back to back with the servo that is already aft of the mainshaft
Kermit,
That's exactly how they mount! Take a look at your frame from the top. Are there two servo mount slots directly across from each other at the back? If so, those are the slots to mount the two aileron servos. The elevator servo mounts in the slot to the front of the main shaft. All three have pushrods going directly up to the swash giving you 120 degree CCPM. My assumption that the FP and CP use the same frame is from ordering parts. Parts lists for both list the frame as part number SK011.

The $40 for the rotor head assembly is a SWAG. It might be more than that. You would need parts SK045, 46, 48, 51, 52, 53, 62, 63. Also a third servo SK030. An alternative, Balsa Products sells the bare CP airframe and motors (no radio) for $80.

If the 3-in-1 is 6 channel then it should work. Like I said the TX uses channels 1-ail, 2-elev, and 5-pitch to control the swash plate in a 120 degree CCPM setup. That give you the for/aft and left/right cyclic and raises/lowers the swash for pitch control.
Old 05-05-2005, 01:59 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Ok, I've been playing with the HB2 for six months now. Lost one tail blade. Hit it on something, split down the middle. No biggie.

Yesterday I broke three of them! Didn't hit anything. All three snapped in flight, flying along happily and in each case one of the blade just snapped off right where it connects to the center hub. Not sure what to make of this. It must be something wrong with my setup, but there isn't anything obvious. Nothing seems to be hitting or rubbing on the tail balde. No visible wear on the blades.

Has anyone else had this happen? Maybe I got some bad tail blades.
Old 05-05-2005, 02:53 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Wow, my rotor head assembly guestimate was pretty good! I just priced the parts out at heli-fever.com and it came to $42.68. I think I must spend way too much time ordering parts!
Old 05-05-2005, 05:05 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Kermit you can just buy a HB2 kit for $80 complete w/o electronics (forgot if the motors comes with it or not). From you're posts it sounds like you already have everything execpt for rx, althought I don't think the HS55 will fit on the HB2. The HB2 servos are smaller I believe. You will need a 6 ch rx. The pitch is alway on the 6th channel. 5ch rx is no good.

The 4-in-1 board is just another name for 3-in-1 + rx. You can use the 4-in-1 on the FP since it only needs 4 channels.
Old 05-05-2005, 05:21 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

ORIGINAL: paedbo
by the way this is how i tried to figure out the headspeed, someone correct me if im wrong. i have a himax 2015-4100, so i have a 3 lipo pack at 11.1 volts, 11.1 x 4100 = 45,510, now the honey bee 2 has 144 tooth spur gear ( i think anyways, i just counted 18 teeth between 2 of the spokes and then just multiplied) , it has an 8 tooth pinion, so the pinion has to turn 18 times for 1 rotation of the main spur so 45000 divided by 18 = roughly 2500rpm does this sound roughly correct?
While this is principle sound, it is not correct.
It assumes 0 weight for everything (which some1 already pointed out)
It assumes perfect efficiency.
It assumes you are running at 100% duty cycle.

ESC = electronic speed controller. Your ESC is pulsing at 11.1v at all throttle position but we know head speed is much faster at full throttle then at 1/2 stick. The reason is because of duty cycle. Even at 100% throttle, the ESC is unlikly to be at 100% duty cycle. Changing the pitch will also change the head speed at a given throttle unless the ESC has a governor mode. The buttom line is you really need a tach if you're after that perfectly tuned machine.
Old 05-05-2005, 05:26 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Actually, HS-55's are the same size as the Esky servos. I got a bare HB2 from Balsa Products (it does come with motors) and put three HS-55s on it and a spare 4-in-1 that I had. The HS-55 fits perfectly in the Honeybee 2 frame. Also replaced the z-bend rods with some leftover ball-link rods from my T-Rex. Works like a charm. Only difference is the HS-55 is reversed compared to the Esky servo. But I use a Futaba 7CHP so I just reverse it in the TX.

Rich
Old 05-05-2005, 07:59 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

tnd2000 thanks for the info , i know the numbers will be much lower than it comes out on paper, i just used that calculation when i went to select which motor to get the kv2800 or the 4100, then i ws just trying to figure out what pinion would work best with it.


I took her outside today even though the winds were alittle gusty, before with the stock 4 in 1 box i could not fly it to well facing away from the wind, i had to fight the tail to no end to keep it from trying to flip around. today with the HH gyro it was alot easier to fly ( plus it has higher head speed and overall weight is also heavier which contributed to better flight characteristics in the wind) over all i was very pleased with how well it did with 10 to 15 mph wind gusts.


Can someone tell me alittle about timing advance, my understanding is that low timing advance will give you better efficiency but can there be rare cases were putting a higher timing might work better? im just curious to know because i have tried standard advance and low advance, dont know if i should bother trying high?
Old 05-05-2005, 08:07 PM
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

rbiasi,

Roger on the parts order/pricing skills. Same here, but wife is not impressed.

tnd2000,

I'm still tossing around ideas to get a CP and the most bang for the buck and am not in a big hurry. Right now I'm still patching the HB FP. I cut my trashed boom off at the chassis and tail motor housing tonight, and drilled out the remains, and I now have a new boom (a shortened Dragonfly) with no "splints". Now awaiting new main blades.

My end result is to have two helis still operational in two or three months so my grandson will have something besides a Playstation and "brain-dead tv" to keep him mentally stimulated, and still have money to put gas in the motorhome. He found the park flyers fun and managed to "permanently" break my Avistar 30 at the wing joiner pulling out of a "too fast" dive at 200 feet or so summer before last. It did a lawn dart into the woods adjoining the flying field, but amazingly enough everything that wasn't wood survived except for the aileron servo which we couldn't find. He's 14 now, so should take it a little more seriously (plus I might make him buy some parts to get going again. Yeah right.).

rbiasi mentioned the HS-55 servos fitting, which is good news, and I have servo reverse on my T6AXS also, so not counting a new 3D pro, I'm down to between $45 and $80 to go CP.

Rick

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