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Esky Helicopters Discuss the line of Esky electric helis in here including the Honey Bee, Lama, Belt CP, etc

Esky honey bee CP

Old 07-03-2005, 12:24 PM
  #826  
paedbo
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

kobus i answered your question in your other thread, i forgot about the swashplate seperating issue that casipak mentioned make sure that its not seperated,

Then if its not, its probably the issue i spoke of in the other thread.


casipak

the single conversion berg crystal should work fine. so would the gws crystal. above it

the brushless motor was excellent upgrade i always got consistant rpms etc once it was setup right, thats why i liked it over the stock motor, when the stockie starts dying you lose lift etc etc and you drive yourself nuts trying to figure out whats wrong.

with the brushless i never had to worry and it had ample power. However the only pain about it is getting it hooked up to the 4 in 1.


however a brushless tail setup i think is not worth it, now that i think about it, the brushless tail had problems with hunting and wobbling it just didnt seem as quick to changes in rpm as the original stock motors did and i always found myself turning the gyro way down to get it to stop hunting, then it would get all sloppy and loose,

Then when i went and flew the colco thunderbird i couldnt believe how much more stable it was with the tail than the honey bee with the brushless, It might of been because i used the small brushless motor and i should of went with the direct drive one.

Old 07-03-2005, 01:03 PM
  #827  
casipak
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Thanks for the reassurance. It's just that I didn't know how the 4100 kv would work out in terms of flight time. What do you think?
How does the setup for the brushless work? I know there's a thread with pics but the pics don't show. Don't you have to solder a couple of wires from the speed controller to the motor and then plug in the speed controller to the board?
Old 07-03-2005, 01:36 PM
  #828  
paedbo
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

yeah you have to take the 4 in one box apart and solder the signal wire from the brushless controller, to the signal output on the receiver, ( which is channel 3)


as far as flight times with the brushless, after getting a stronger discharge rate lipo like the dymonds, i pretty much was getting about the same amount of flight time
Old 07-03-2005, 03:51 PM
  #829  
casipak
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

How much kv did your brushless have? And what exactly is kv? I know what it is but vaguely.
Old 07-03-2005, 06:12 PM
  #830  
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Hi Kobus_UK,

Your description is excellent but as pointed out, the problems might be related to other issues not visible as it's someone else's picture.

Since you will need to be the eyes, I'll offer a suggestion which should assist.

First, remember that all you need for lift is rotor speed and sufficient pitch.

Step 1. Disconnect the motors....

Step 2. Power up the helicopter.

Step 3. Move the collective level and observe the mechanism.

Although I'm sure you'll figure it all out from that, here's what you need to look for...

The shashplate (Between the spinng part and the static part) should be one piece. Assuming it's not separated, then as you increase collective, the swashplate comes down. This lowers the head which in turn, increases the pitch on the blades. Make sure this is happening.

You can make yourself up a little jig to measure the pitch by cutting out a cardboard half-circle and making a slot in it to go over the blade hub where it's more square.

Things that go wrong here are insufficient pitch caused by blockages in the mechanism (ie, it can't go down far enough).

You've mentioned that the Servo seems off. If it's too high, then you won't get sufficient pitch. They do slip sometimes, and you might need to adjust it. Cheap servo's sometimes do that. They also might be damaged, or moving the pin may have pushed the whole mechanism higher reducing pitch.

Also, too much permanent pitch can cause the motor to go too slowly, the blades stall and so again, no flight. This is the alternate problem.

Step 4. UNPLUG battery and reconnect main motors. Test.

I got a small 2Kg scale, and clipped the struts to it... Then I zero'ed it and powered up and use it to measure lift.

A handy device

David
Old 07-03-2005, 11:03 PM
  #831  
paedbo
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

kv means how many rpm's per 1 volt of power,


so 4100kv at 10 volts would turn 41,000 rpm.
Old 07-04-2005, 04:45 AM
  #832  
kobus_uk
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Thanks for all the help. I think I managed to sort out the problem. The swashplate is intact though. What I did was as recommended on another forum, was to remove the balljoints from the swasplate and shorten the servo rods by one turn each. It did sort out the lift problem, but I still feel that there must be a way to get it to a stable hover. Might be lack of experience but I just can't seem to get it to stay in one place.

Once again thanks for the help. Will be posting images of my heli soon that might shed some light on the subject.

Sitting at work now so a suppose I must get back to work now. Wish I could bring my heli to work. I'm addicted.
Old 07-04-2005, 08:03 AM
  #833  
paedbo
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

kobus, yes i think that was me that answered your other thread about the servo rods being too long.

The micro helis are very hard to control , the bigger the heli the easier and more stable it is,

my honey bee was very hard for me especially if there was any wind. Here are just a few basic rules to go by to tell whether your heli is pretty close to being set up right. im not going to go into any stuff like actual positive and negative pitches, you would need a pitch gauge to check stuff like that.

anyways.

1. vibration: make sure the heli does not vibrate alot if it does something is out of balance. and makes it very hard to fly, alittle vibration is ok theres always going to be a tad.

2. Center of gravity , make sure when you replace the battery in the heli that you get the center of gravity as close as possible.

3. trimming out the heli, it is very hard to hover a micro if it isnt trimmed out really well. for instance if she keeps wanting to lean left when hovering you need to give it right cyclic constantly with your right thumb, now maybe your fighting the winds, natural tendancys of the heli, and you have to keep orientated with which way the heli is facing. or maybe throw in some tail spin where she wants to lean and spin alittle and you have to compensate on both sticks at the same time and this makes it hard to even hover. So i suggest the first few times you take off with a freshly charged pack, you hold it as steady as you can a few feet off the ground ( try to get it just above ground effect) and pay attention to your inputs on the transmitter, if it needs trimming, land it give it alittle trim and try again, once you can get the heli 3 feet off the ground and you can let go of all the sticks and she will hover herself for about a second -or two, then you know the trims are really close. micros are not very stable so a 1 or 2 second hands off hover is considered to be trimmed real well. Just be careful i dont want you to literally take your hands off the transmitter and then end up crashing it, you can keep your hands on the sticks and you will be able to sense when the trims are really good because you will immedietly be able to tell its easier to hover.

4. with a micro try to fly indoors at first if its possible. This way you can learn the hand eye coordination without having to deal with wind, I dont know if you have a simulator, i learned to hover my honey bee on my own, but then for a week or two it seemed like my learning just wasnt advancing i couldnt nose in hover or anything and i finally went ahead and bought reflex xtr. and just a few weeks with that i could control the heli facing in any direction without breaking a sweat.

Theres plenty more advice out there but for now i cant really think of them. Hope all this helps, good luck.
Old 07-04-2005, 10:31 AM
  #834  
kobus_uk
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Thanx a lot.

Yes I have been practicing on FMS as well but I just feel that it does't get te real effect of my heli. It's totally different. I understand that this si a low budget sim if I may call it that and I've heard that reflex is the way to go. Just which I could find a reflex demo to download or something cause I only need it for heli practice and not all the other fancy planes and stuff. I can't afford to buy anything and if I had the money it would probably be a better option to spend it on upgrades. I am practicing indoors but being enclosed by foor walls makes me nervous as hell. When I set my bird down I shake like a polaroid picture.



Old 07-04-2005, 07:13 PM
  #835  
paedbo
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

the sims are worth it they will save you money that you will end up spending on crash repairs anyways.


reflex has a demo but you cant use it, it will just show you a movie clip.

theres one out there called clearview thats alittle better than fms. costs about $30

also for those wondering about the lipo adapter, i been using it on my 3 cell 1200mah lipos for my micro heli's, its working perfectly, but it does not top off the batteries, i can use a normal NICAD charger plug it into the lipoadapter and then to the battery, once the battery reaches 12.60 volts the lipo adapter shuts off.

Now since it just stops charging once a peak of 12.60 volts is reached, it doesnt do that last stage of slow charging to trickle in and top off the pack, however i have seen many debated threads about whether or not to top off lipo's, some say if you dont top them off they will last longer etc.

Anyways i like it, it will charge up to a 6s pack at 5 amps, the maker says hes being quite conservative with the 5 amp rating that it could probably charge at 10 amps with no problem.
Old 07-05-2005, 08:30 PM
  #836  
ratpoop
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

does anyone have a picture of how they fixed the ball studs on the rotorhead?
i break one every flight. what about metal ball studs?

another question is about the mainshaft. i bend this everytime i fly as well. i seen a titanium one and was wondering if
anyone has tried it.
other then these 2 things, i love my hb2. i just got some 3d in today! upside down flying is fun.
Old 07-06-2005, 06:32 AM
  #837  
casipak
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

How do you break the main shaft everytime?
Old 07-06-2005, 12:11 PM
  #838  
ratpoop
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

if i land hard, it bends everytime. even when the head is not the first to hit the ground.
it will hit the ground, then the blades will hit the ground, and always bents the shaft.
i am getting better at flying, so maybe when i get good it will not happen as much.
but i need something better for now.
Old 07-06-2005, 04:24 PM
  #839  
casipak
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

You can try looking at helihobby.com. I am pretty sure they have good shafts and autorotation gear included, but it will cost quite a bit
Old 07-07-2005, 01:53 AM
  #840  
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

I'd stick with the stock main shaft. The titanium shaft will still bend in a crash. And it'll cost a heck of a lot more to replace.
Old 07-07-2005, 07:02 AM
  #841  
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

I still don't get how the shaft ALWAYS bents . I've crushed both my helis thousands of times and never had that kind of damage
Old 07-07-2005, 10:01 AM
  #842  
ratpoop
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

i have bent 3 in a row, in 3 flights.
could it be from crashing in grass? i would think it would be easier on the helli then the sidewalk.
Old 07-07-2005, 10:25 AM
  #843  
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

You have bent 3? That is strange. I had some very nasty crashes and only bent mine once and that happened going ff straight down to the dirt. How tight do you have your blades? They should be lose enough to swing when you hit something. Just snug is all you need.
Old 07-07-2005, 12:45 PM
  #844  
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

I think the shafts tend to bend when the rotors slam into something (like the ground) at full speed. Sometime I go for weeks without bending one. On the other hand, a couple weeks ago I bent the crap out of the shafts on both of my HB2s in one morning. Any more I always keep a couple of spare shafts/main gears in the parts box for those days. And yes, I keep my blades nice and loose.

The new HB CP2 setup is nice since the shaft and main gear are two separate pieces. So you only need to replace the part that is broken. Unfortunately it's not a "drop in" replacement on the CP1. The main gear sits higher in the frame so you need longer servo arms to reach the swash. Eventually I'll put some longer links in and move to the CP2 gear/shaft. But I've got too many other projects going on the HB2 at the moment (separates, venom motor, 9t & 10t pinions, HH gyro, etc.).

The other cool thing about the CP2 main gear is it's a lot beefier than the CP1 version. And it has a little metal flywheel/hub. So it should spin a bit better.

I've been meaning to post about my switch to the CP2 rotor head, but I've been having too much fun flying it! Let's just say it ROCKS! It's a bell-hiller head. So the cyclic control is unreal! I broke one of the mixing arms over the weekend and had to put the CP1 head back on. Cyclic is really doggy compared to the CP2 head.
Old 07-08-2005, 03:52 PM
  #845  
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Please tell me more about the new head because I'd like to make my cyclic controls much better.
Old 07-08-2005, 06:16 PM
  #846  
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Ok, my Honeybee is a real handful. I bought it used and it was all wacked out and couldn't even fly.
I bought new parts and adjusted it the best I could using info on here and the manual. I put on some new stock blades and went to fly and the thing can barely get 3 feet off the ground. I have pitch set so that the blades are pretty much level, or maybe a little positive with no throttle applied. (yes, I already fixed the sticky collective, and it gets full travel when I give full throttle)

So I put on a set of PE foam blades and the helicopter took off like a grasshopper. i was so excited, but excitement soon vanished as the helicopter is extremely unstable and difficult to fly. I got the proportion set right, but it can not hover still or even close to it. It always shoots to the left as soon as it is airborne. I know the tail motor is pushing it, so i try and add some right pitch, but it just can't hover at all.

I took it to my LHS and had them give it a look. They couldn't find anything wrong and didn't know why it was flying so bad.

I crashed and busted my foam blades and now only have the stock ones. I really wish it could take flight with them.

Anyone have any ideas on why I can't get lift with balsa blades, and why it flies sooo crapy?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Ryan
Old 07-08-2005, 07:53 PM
  #847  
raz54
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

If you do have some positive pitch it should lift off easier and at a slower head speed. Some people say that is bad but mine was more stable that way. Are you setting the throttle trim up about 1/2 way before you give it throttle? That will increase the pitch. Also are you sure the motor is turning fast enough? The foam blades would be more unstable, you lose the gyro effect with too light a blade. Did the guy at the hs fly it or just look at it. If he can't fly it he may not know what he is doing. Make sure the shear pin is okay and that the head is not slipping on it causing too slow a head speed. Good luck.
Old 07-08-2005, 09:15 PM
  #848  
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Yeah he tried to fly it with no success. I just replaced the pin today. I try to fly it with the trim in every position. It can only take off when it is at the maximum for more pitch. I tried adjusting for positive pitch about five times, all in different position and it still can't fly good. I have a 11.1 Lipo that is good (12.6v fully charged) and the motor should be good. It is pretty new.

I am running out of ideas. I guess I can order a new motor with possibly a nine or ten tooth pinion for more head speed. What do you think?

Thanks,
Ryan
Old 07-08-2005, 09:27 PM
  #849  
raz54
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

I don't know, that is a tough one since I can't see it. It really sounds like it's not adjusted properly though. If you unplug the main motor then set the trim 1/2 way you should see all the servos pulling down and giving the blades more pitch. Then when you give it some throttle the pitch should increase even more to a pretty good angle. You didn't happen to get the blade grips 180 degree out did you? The ball link should be at the trailing edge of the blades. Don't laugh, it has been done.
Old 07-08-2005, 10:14 PM
  #850  
awdtsi
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Default RE: Esky honey bee CP

Yes, the collective is working properly and getting full movement. It goes all the way down and increases pitch to the blades. The grips are in the proper orientation. The thing is, it can get about 2 -3 feet off the ground with the stock wooden blades, but can't get any higher. Without making any changes and installing the PE foam blades it can get about 25 - 30 feet off the ground real quick. LOL I found that out the hard way and met a power line, haha. Surprisingly no damage.

I can't seem to figure out the lift problem with wooden blades??/

Thanks for your help so far,
Ryan

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