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Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

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Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

Old 11-22-2010, 08:09 PM
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Jim Thomerson
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Default Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

In the December Model Aviation, pg 99, Joe Wagner reiterates some things he said a while back. "ARO in diesels will prevent them from running!" I regularly use Rislone as After Run Oil on my diesels with no starting or running problem. I had come email back and forth with Joe about this, and I think his experience is with the little bottle of ARO sold in hobby shops. So I wonder what other forum members think about this.
Old 11-22-2010, 08:33 PM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?


ORIGINAL: Jim Thomerson

In the December Model Aviation, pg 99, Joe Wagner reiterates some things he said a while back. "ARO in diesels will prevent them from running!" I regularly use Rislone as After Run Oil on my diesels with no starting or running problem. I had come email back and forth with Joe about this, and I think his experience is with the little bottle of ARO sold in hobby shops. So I wonder what other forum members think about this.
Hi Jim,
Ithink that we have touched upon this before and I use automatic transmision fluid.
Why? Because of its high detergent content that doesn't allow castor oil to dry and go hard in the bearings, its very, very cheap and flushes out extremely well when fuel is entered back into the engine.

You use Rislone High Performance Engine Oil Treatment? Isn't that very high viscosity oil?

To me the engine is protected well enough by the castor residue and leaving the exhaust port open after running to vent corrosive gases and what adding ATF does is not 'protect' as such but ensues that the protective castor stays in a soft usable state.

Most ARO problems Isee come with nitromethane use and the ensuing rust problems from the nitric acid build up, here flushing the engine and using a more protective oil would be of benefit but with an all castor oil fuel in a diesel, why bother?

Cheers mate.

Old 11-22-2010, 09:28 PM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

After use of either diesel's or glo's I have for years 'hosed' them out with WD40-CRC or similar then oiled them up well with motor oil.
At the moment I'm using a TC3 oil that's a 2 stroke oil used in 'stroker' PWC (Jetski's) because I've gone 4 stroke PWC and have some TCW3 over from the 'old' days.

Never had a problem, and some of my many engines only get a run now and then.
Old 11-22-2010, 09:36 PM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

I'm weird - I don't store my diesels in the model unless I plan to fly them again very soon. After flying, I clean them externally with kerosene. If they're going to be laid up for any length of time, I take them out of the model to do this, after which they get a session in the ultrasonic cleaner. Then I use Rislone Engine Treatment - not the high performance stuff, but the blue stuffwhich is suuposed to be added to oil in regular cars. It isn't at all thick - it's actually quite runny. My diesels turn over freely two or more years after their last run using this approach, and I've never had any problem with starting or running when I get them out again. I'd be interested to hear more about Joe's explanation of the problems to which he refers!Maybe he knows something that Idon't ..................that's not hard!

Keep those suggestions coming!

Cheers,

Adrian
Old 11-22-2010, 10:12 PM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

A teaspoon of my "preserving oil" ... which is nothing more than a mix of 1/2 dexron ATF, and 1/2 air tool oil, down the throat.

Then , a few flicks, and hopefully a "bbuuuurrrp" to clear out the ether fumes , and I'm done!
Old 11-22-2010, 10:37 PM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?


ORIGINAL: Diesel Die-hard

I'm weird - I don't store my diesels in the model unless I plan to fly them again very soon. After flying, I clean them externally with kerosene. If they're going to be laid up for any length of time, I take them out of the model to do this, after which they get a session in the ultrasonic cleaner. Then I use Rislone Engine Treatment - not the high performance stuff, but the blue stuffwhich is suuposed to be added to oil in regular cars. It isn't at all thick - it's actually quite runny. My diesels turn over freely two or more years after their last run using this approach, and I've never had any problem with starting or running when I get them out again. I'd be interested to hear more about Joe's explanation of the problems to which he refers!Maybe he knows something that Idon't ..................that's not hard!

Keep those suggestions coming!

Cheers,

Adrian
Is this because you have 50+ engines to choose from and you feel obliged to give each one in turn 'a day in the sun?'
(I can well imagine all of your clean and shiny motors sitting on the shelf thinking "Pick me, pick me!" when you walk past choosing a weapon for the days events.)

I have a 40 year old PAW 19 DS that only ever ran castor oil and thrived on neglect during my youth, and has never seen 'after run oil' until recently.
Sure it gets gummed up but never has suffered any damage from a lack of protective coating and it leaves me wondering about how much 'protection' is really warranted.

Old 11-23-2010, 04:57 AM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

Hi all ,same as Adrian all my engines are removed from the model after use.My personal method is to remove the back plate,blast internals with contact cleaner,rotate with care,do not turn through 360 deg,lube with Ballistol.Also left in an under compresed state.
Old 11-23-2010, 08:37 AM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

Jim, I use my favorite, Corrosion X, in all my Diesels, I came to the conclusion a long time ago that much of what Joe Wagner says is highly suspect. Corrosion X will not let castor lube congeal and if congealed the CX will dissolve it.

If Joe Wagner is convinced of his theory he should explain iy to us, my money says his theory won't gel either.
Old 11-23-2010, 03:05 PM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

I usually put a few drops of ARO in the intake on my plainbearing PAW 09 after each flight, just to keep it from getting stuck from the castor and I never really know how long it will be between each time I use it either. It does make the engine a little trickier to start the first time of the day, but no big deal really.

I can imagine that if one were to but lots of ARO in there, then one could get problems that are similar to an over primed engine and might risk to damage the engine from a too high compression with all the oil.
Old 11-23-2010, 03:07 PM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

Got no theory here.... I just use the same thing I use with glow engines: air tool oil. No problems so far. Dzl
Old 11-23-2010, 05:41 PM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

ATF oil for me. I do have some 50 year old engines that never saw after run oil. ATF and WD40 limber them up quickly, after heating slightly with a paint stripper. Then one day in a kero/oil bath and all is fine again.
Lately I have used synth gas two stroke lubricating oil with excellent results. No gumming up and no corrosion.
Old 11-23-2010, 10:33 PM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

A few observations and opinions:

If I remember correctly, after run oils were created for glow engines because the alcohol absorbs water and the nitro produces nitric acid which together rapidly produces rust and corrosion. The problem wasn't as bad until RC flyers stopped their engines by throttle, thus leaving raw fuel in the crankcase and on the bearings.

AFAIK the problem should not be as bad for diesels unless you use a corrosive cetane booster.

That said, I also use after run oil in diesels. If you "juice them up" like I do, you might consider flushing them with kerosene or fuel when you install them in a plane. That should resolve the problem of kicking up after run oil from the crankcase and putting out the fire...if you are having that problem.

George
Old 11-24-2010, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

From the PAW web site -


15. AFTER USE (All Engines)



Run to full operating temperature, stop by cutting fuel supply, NEVER by throttle or choking. Leave piston at BOTTOM of stroke for three days to allow escape of acid combustion residues. For longer storage, inject oil into inlet and flick over a few times. Discard any fuel that has been in plastic container - ALWAYS store in well sealed metal can.

So regardless if its RC or not we are advised to run the engine dry and then oil it. (Getting the engine HOT at the end of a run is a key here also.)

And honestly I don't think that it much matters what oil that is.


Old 11-28-2010, 10:52 PM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

Joe Wagner did state a theory. He thought that because the Hobbico ARO was an anti oxidant it made combustion, i.e., an oxidation reaction, more difficult. This was his explanation of a phenomenon he observed. Maybe he's wrong, but I never wanted to find out on my own engines, and I have not used it on my diesels. When I'm ready to use an old diesel the heat gun and some WD-40 followed by sewing machine oil works just fine. But be careful flipping the prop after a squirt of WE-40!

The ATF idea at the end of a season sounds good.

Jim
Old 11-28-2010, 11:15 PM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

Anti oxident theory?

Strange then that all aviation kerosene or Jet A1 has an anti oxident added to it and perhaps its the levels of it rather than simply just its presence.
Old 11-29-2010, 12:45 AM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?


ORIGINAL: buzzard bait

Joe Wagner did state a theory. He thought that because the Hobbico ARO was an anti oxidant it made combustion, i.e., an oxidation reaction, more difficult. This was his explanation of a phenomenon he observed. Maybe he's wrong, but I never wanted to find out on my own engines, and I have not used it on my diesels. When I'm ready to use an old diesel the heat gun and some WD-40 followed by sewing machine oil works just fine. But be careful flipping the prop after a squirt of WE-40!

The ATF idea at the end of a season sounds good.

Jim


The folks that make WD-40 stopped using propane as a propellant a fairly long time ago now. It won't allow our engines to run on it as well, if it runs at all, as it once did, sadly.


Ed Cregger
Old 12-01-2010, 11:06 AM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?


ORIGINAL: Recycled Flyer
...So regardless if its RC or not we are advised to run the engine dry and then oil it. (Getting the engine HOT at the end of a run is a key here also.)

And honestly I don't think that it much matters what oil that is.

Most CL flyers run the engine dry by nature. I will usually disconnect the fuel line (unless it's inconvenient) and filp the engine (on diesels) and do the same with booster connected on glow engines to run the last fuel out of the crankcase at the end of the day. The intention is to not put them away wet.

Since many RC flyers throttle back and land with fuel still in the tank, removing the fuel line is necessary before "running it dry"...that is the point I was trying to make.

Although it probably is not necessary, I use oils with a rust inhibitor, especially if I am retiring the engine for more than a week.

Your engines, your choices.

George
Old 12-04-2010, 08:22 PM
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Default RE: Do you use after run oil on your diesels?

Air tool oil..

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