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Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

Old 05-02-2013, 10:48 PM
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qazimoto
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Default Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

Got to go diesel cling with Greggles during the week (Tuesday actually) at the KMFC field in Sydney.

It turned out to be a beautiful autumn day in Sydney, 27 degrees C as well.


Pic shows Greg's cl Diesel Goodyear Argander Special powered by a Rothwell-CS 15 diesel.

The engine is notable for two reasons.



#1 It's one of a small batch of CS "Oliver Tiger" 15D that Steve did a few years ago.

The rod, p/l, cylinder fins and comp screw are all modified R250 items.

The crankshafts are Rothwell copies of the CS design made in real nitrated steel.

The NVA/Venturi assembly is R250 and the spinner assembly is from Andy Kerr. The only original parts are the crankcase and the backplate.

#2 There will not be any more of the modified engines since all the parts are now gone.

It starts first flick every time.



Ray
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:00 PM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

Ray

The "diesel cling"? Sounds a little bit fruity!

-

Ahhh ... you and Greggles are "Diesel C/L 'ing" (*) ... a perfectly 'manly' pursuit, NOW I understand it

( * highly recommended!)
Old 05-02-2013, 11:13 PM
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qazimoto
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

Yes, "Diesel C/L 'ing" indeed! [:@]

Both Greggles and myself are married to women by the way, just in case there's any doubts.

Not that there's anything wrong with the alternative.

Ahem!

Also went dieseling on Wednesday with the Mannering Park crowd.

Most notable diesel model was Bob Fisher's Taipan 09 Twin.


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Old 05-02-2013, 11:23 PM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

Bob flies the twin often and the Taipans usually start within a few flicks of each other.

It performs just like any other slow combat model otherwise and that's exactly what the basic design is based on.



Closeup of the mid 1960's era Taipan 1.5cc. The model will stunt quite happily with just one (either) engine running.




Bob and Wayne discussing which venturi to fit to the dieselised Norvel 15 in his Taipan Trainer Sabre Racer.

Confusing isn't it? Running a Taipan Trainer in a Sabre Race!



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Old 05-02-2013, 11:26 PM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

Ray

That "Taipan Twin" must go like ... [I won't quote the favourite Aussie epithet for fear of moderator wrath]


Details of the ship would be appreciated. Plan? Home brewed airframe? Line length?

Which model Taipans are they?
Old 05-02-2013, 11:44 PM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

ORIGINAL: fiery

Ray

That ''Taipan Twin'' must go like ... [I won't quote the favourite Aussie epithet for fear of moderator wrath]


Details of the ship would be appreciated. Plan? Home brewed airframe? Line length?

Which model Taipans are they?

It flies just like a 15 glow powered slow combat model. The twin is based on Bob"s own design called the "Eclipse".

The plan is available free for download on a number of sites including "Hip-Pocket". Lines are 52' 3".

I don't remember which series Taipans they are. But someone with a copy of Maris's book should be able to tell us.


Below pic of the Norvel PB diesel that powers the Taipan Trainer shown above. The venturi and NVA are missing, see above.




Below, Wally Lloyd warms up the Parra 15D in his Little Quickie Diesel Goodyear model.



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Old 05-02-2013, 11:46 PM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

series 66 1.5 diesels? (there was a 1.5 glow as well based on the same crankcase-but the glow seems a lot scarcer)

ChrisM
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:54 PM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.


ORIGINAL: ffkiwi

series 66 1.5 diesels? (there was a 1.5 glow as well based on the same crankcase-but the glow seems a lot scarcer)

ChrisM
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That's right series 66 or 67. I have most of one of the glows in a box down the shed. It's looking for a good home.

IIRC the "ball and socket" piston and rod are completely worn out.

Ray
Old 05-03-2013, 12:13 AM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

I did a bit of autumn dieseling myself on Wednesday morning - another perfect day. Wednesday is normally when the electric RC crowd comes out at my club, so the place needs a bit of livening up. Just the job for an R320. [8D]
Old 05-03-2013, 01:32 AM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

Ahem, I resent any suggestion that Diesel CLing is anything but a very manly pursuit - hack - spit!

As Ray said it was about a perfect day, and the CL field as KMFC was in superb state.

Ray, are the details of the Norvel diesel available for discussion? It looks the bees knees! It may even get the hot starts that it resisted as a glow! That blue paint on Bob's models looks familiar - did he steal yours?

Greg
Old 05-03-2013, 02:44 AM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

ORIGINAL: greggles47

Ahem, I resent any suggestion that Diesel CLing is anything but a very manly pursuit - hack - spit!

As Ray said it was about a perfect day, and the CL field as KMFC was in superb state.

Ray, are the details of the Norvel diesel available for discussion? It looks the bees knees! It may even get the hot starts that it resisted as a glow! That blue paint on Bob's models looks familiar - did he steal yours?

Greg

Ah! Greggles my lad!

Indeed the Norvel Diesel details are completely in the public domain (as those wacky legal chaps so often say).

It's a new home machined set of cooling fins machined with an 18mm heat shrunk clearance hole to match a standard ABC Rossi mk2 liner.

The Head button is standard Parra 15D machined to fit with another home-made head. Bob's conrod is standard Norvel.

The engine attracted quite a lot of attention at the last KMFC Sabre race where it was clearly the fastest there with good hot starting. Only a missed catch and a bit of bad luck with a leak in the fuel tubing kept it from first place.

A few more interesting developments are coming soon.

Ray



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Old 05-05-2013, 10:37 PM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

Ray

Congratulations on your project, did you alter timing or porting on the NV?

I like the generous finning.

From what you say, it out performs a PARRA in your application? Or have I missed something?

Old 05-06-2013, 01:28 AM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

G'day diesel gents.

This little thread has me all choked up. I flew at KMFC from about 1960 to about 1966 and then again from 1973 to 1978. In the early period my first model was a Mustang Trainer with a Taipan 2.5 diesel in it. I never did manage to start the Taipan. My mate Nick Nielsen could start it but not my 11 year old self. The model eventually fell to bits from the attempts to start the Taipan and I sold the diesel for two pounds 10 shillings to purchase an OS 15 glow for five pounds nineteen and six pence. I flogged it to death over the next few years.

Later I did some Goodyear and Rat racing using G20 diesels. I still have one from that period. It was built from scrap parts around a crank case given to me by Hutton Oddy of Team Race fame and has "Oddy tuned" scratched into the bottom of the case. We found the G20s to be reliable and powerful enough but later we tried a Rossi 15 (glow) which was much faster and almost as reliable.

These days I am in Dubbo where I fly mostly RC with four stroke engines. I do have an Enya 41 4C diesel which I have run but I am yet to be brave enough to fly it.

I started the Oily Hand Diesel day when I was flying at Cowra. I did not make last year's event but am hoping to get there this year.

Cheers

Mike in Dubbo
Old 05-06-2013, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

Mike, Oily Hand is one of my favourite weekends of the year, so you're a champion for starting it IMHO. Hope to see you there this year.

We got some more autumn dieseling in this morning - got two Schlosser .25s, an MP Jet 061BB and a Rothwell R320 in the air, and did some bench running of a Frog, a Taifun, and an MPJ 040. Happy days!
Old 05-06-2013, 09:41 PM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.



I will second that!

I've been to the last 2 Oily Hand weekends and will be there again this year.

It's my only time I can share diesel fumeswith like minds as I'm the lone diesel flyer in my club.

Well worth the9 hour drive x2.

Old 05-07-2013, 01:33 AM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

G'day Oily handed people.

When I was in the Cowra club, we were looking for a fun fly type event that would have wide appeal. I had not long bought a Peter Burford PB .33 diesel and wondered if there were still people out there flying diesels. So I suggested it to Andy and Ian and the first Oily Hand day was held. I think we had about 15 people at that one. Every year since then the numbers have grown. A couple of years later I moved to Dubbo. Since the first one was held, I have only missed one and that was last year. I and a couple of friends from Dubbo are hoping to get there this year too. I usually come just on the Sunday as I can get there in about two hours from Dubbo. Warren, you are a real hero for driving from Melbourne just to smell burning model diesel fuel.

See you in August. Now to get some diesel models going.

Mike from Dubbo, Oz
Old 05-08-2013, 02:57 AM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

ORIGINAL: fiery

Ray

Congratulations on your project, did you alter timing or porting on the NV?

I like the generous finning.

From what you say, it out performs a PARRA in your application? Or have I missed something?

The motor in the pic was made by Bob Fisher not myself. My latest similar Norvel Rossi diesel Project is pictured below.

We're trying to get reliable hot starts in Sabre Trainer events which require plain bearing engines. They are rather flimsy in the bottom end compared to a Parra, and I'd expect one of the latter to blow our efforts away completely.

Exhaust timing is adjusted to 150 degrees by either machining the top liner seat in the cylinder fin assembly or adding shims under the liner rim.

Ray

Below, the new set of fins in the jig with ABC liner in place.



Generic type Rossi mk2 p/l. Left, genuine, centre Parra ABC fitted with Enya rod, right ASP 15 ABC p/l.




Parra 15D diesel head button in place in Rossi liner. It's a good fit in this and Parra liner though depth has to be adjusted.

The head button has to be machined slightly to make a snug fit with the ASP liner.

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Old 05-08-2013, 03:16 AM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.


ORIGINAL: mike109

G'day diesel gents.

This little thread has me all choked up. I flew at KMFC from about 1960 to about 1966 and then again from 1973 to 1978. In the early period my first model was a Mustang Trainer with a Taipan 2.5 diesel in it. I never did manage to start the Taipan. My mate Nick Nielsen could start it but not my 11 year old self. The model eventually fell to bits from the attempts to start the Taipan and I sold the diesel for two pounds 10 shillings to purchase an OS 15 glow for five pounds nineteen and six pence. I flogged it to death over the next few years.

Later I did some Goodyear and Rat racing using G20 diesels. I still have one from that period. It was built from scrap parts around a crank case given to me by Hutton Oddy of Team Race fame and has ''Oddy tuned'' scratched into the bottom of the case. We found the G20s to be reliable and powerful enough but later we tried a Rossi 15 (glow) which was much faster and almost as reliable.

These days I am in Dubbo where I fly mostly RC with four stroke engines. I do have an Enya 41 4C diesel which I have run but I am yet to be brave enough to fly it.

I started the Oily Hand Diesel day when I was flying at Cowra. I did not make last year's event but am hoping to get there this year.

Cheers

Mike in Dubbo

Mike,

the St Ives c/l field is possibly the best grass field in the country. We probably bumped into each other a few times there in the mid 60's there then.

I was a member there for a year or so when the Ryde club went defunct for awhile.

I teamed up with Marcus Coe while there to fly B Class team Race not very well.

I believe that he's still in the area though not flying.

Ray

Old 05-08-2013, 03:50 AM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

G'day

I spent my early life (up to 17) at North Manly. Nearby, on the way to Manly, some blokes used to fly control line in a park in the 1950s. I loved to go and watch. I believe that some time in the late 1950s, the Manly CL Club was tossed out of the park and teamed up with a St Ives club which had been given permission to fly inside the St Ives Showground. I was told that the Manly Club was quite financial where as the St Ives club was smaller and less well off but the combination of the two allowed the building of the KMFC site and that KMFC was the result of the joining of the two clubs.

Right from the early days the KMFC field was really good. The founders spent quite some time and money leveling and draining the site and getting water to the field which allowed it to have a really good grass cover. There were three circles, 40ft, 50ft and 60ft but no other building in the early days apart from a perimeter fence which looks to be still there.

The pits area was set out with facilities to quickly measure line lengths and in the early days, members were expected to wear white boiler suits like the RAF had before WWII. Names that I remember from my first stint include Neville Carlos, John Ogg, Nick Nielsen, Jim Ward (who still files RC with me in Dubbo at the age of 80), Alan Shinfield and Mister Moses who did not fly but had flown in the 1950s and drove a very nice Rover 105 or similar. A small shed was donated to the club and even a really nice display model of a Super Constellation. Sadly, both were lost to a bush fire. A second building, which I think is still there, was moved in later.

When I came back in the 1970s things had quietened down and all the members from my earlier period had moved on. Names I remember include Ossie Todd and his son Alan who flew combat against my brother and raced against us too. Barry Franklin flew scale models including a very impressive Mosquito and inspired a young Tom Pecar to build some impressive scale models including a Boomerang Fighter, Sopwith Pup and a very nice Hurricane which was never quite completed. Numbers had fallen quite a bit by that time though Hutton Oddy and Julius Reichart were doing great things with FAI team race and even competed in Europe. Another father and son team were just starting out as I left and I believe they went on to some success in racing. I also remember Steve Rothwell and his screaming Peacemakers with G15 glows in them from late in this period.

I hope some of this is of some interest to someone.

Cheers

Mike in Dubbo, Oz
Old 05-24-2013, 12:46 AM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

Back to Mannering Park, Lake Macquarie this week. Much colder too, Looks like winter is finally arriving just a week early.

Good diesel weather anyway.

The dieselized Enya (previously described here as a "mystery engine" buy, finally got a run. RPM on an 8 x 6 prop was 7000. Well below the Custard pudding skin pulling range.

Turns out that the piston was just standard with the baffle removed. Seems to constantly run rich, which is about what you'd expect when much of the cylinder charge just flows out of the exhaust.







There's a bit of a story about this engine. It's a DC Spitfire of 1.0cc from the 1960's.



It was brought along by a new member of "Dad's Army", whose parents found it underneath a pile of rubbish in the old garage of the family home.

It seems like it was bought new in the 1960's, run a few times and then forgotten about. It was gummed up,

but a good squirt of fuel and an NVA clean-out and it started up almost straight away.

It now has a new home! No not me!




This one is mine. It's a Nelson 15 diesel from the early 1990's. I believe that they were designed for control line diesel combat.

The pic shows it's first run with new ball bearings and a freshly made ABC piston/liner/rod assembly from a well known European F2C flyer.



It started first flick and seemed to be sufficiently powerful for it's intended purpose. It's going into a shiny new Diesel Goodyear racer.



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Old 05-24-2013, 01:15 AM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

Ray,

That's bad news about the Enya, I was hoping for better results - as I guess was Bob. I suppose he has plans to modify the induction side of things? If the liner has the same type of ports milled into the inside like the .15's it could take serious modification and hopefully get some improvement.

Greg
Old 05-24-2013, 01:22 AM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

ORIGINAL: greggles47

Ray,

That's bad news about the Enya, I was hoping for better results - as I guess was Bob. I suppose he has plans to modify the induction side of things? If the liner has the same type of ports milled into the inside like the .15's it could take serious modification and hopefully get some improvement.

Greg
Yes, I suspect that Enya 09 induction side mods might be part of the great master plan.

It definitely needs running in as well.

Here's a link to a discussion on the UK Barton c/l site about the specially made Nelson 15 diesel ABC Piston and Liners.

Regrettably the whole batch now have new homes all around the world, so none left.

Superb quality.

http://controlline.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10193

Here's a pic of the lot of 'em during the manufacturing process.

You can easily tell which one's are mine.





Ray
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Old 05-25-2013, 04:33 AM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

Only one really interesting diesel at MP this afternoon.

It's a Jena 1.0cc side induction diesel.

Another example of a twin ball bearing side port diesel.

Made I believe in the former East Germany during the cold war.

I understand that the Jena factory mostly made eye glasses frames and other optical equipment. In all a nice little easy starting diesel.

It's now got a shiny new piston made from 100 year old cast iron and a new contra-piston by Bob.

It desperately needs new bearings, but that awaits the ok from the owner whose also a contributor to this forum.







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Old 05-25-2013, 05:29 AM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.

I've just found these pics, which I took at St Ives in about September 2011.

They show Steve Rothwell's semi scale twin engined DH Mosquito team racer.

Powered by two R100 diesels.

I believe that the model may now sport a scalish camouflage paint scheme.

Ray




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Old 05-26-2013, 03:57 AM
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Default RE: Southern hemisphere autumn dieseling.


ORIGINAL: qazimoto

Only one really interesting diesel at MP this afternoon.

It's a Jena 1.0cc side induction diesel.

Another example of a twin ball bearing side port diesel.

Made I believe in the former East Germany during the cold war.

I understand that the Jena factory mostly made eye glasses frames and other optical equipment. In all a nice little easy starting diesel.

It's now got a shiny new piston made from 100 year old cast iron and a new contra-piston by Bob.

It desperately needs new bearings, but that awaits the ok from the owner whose also a contributor to this forum.








Good to see my little Jena running Ray. Thanks for the pics mate.
I rang Bob tonight giving him the ok to put new bearings in it.
Now, all I need is a Eastern Block or German FF plan from the early 1960's to put it in.

Fredo


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