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New no ether diesel fuel = WD 40

Old 08-06-2017, 02:03 PM
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grant-RCU
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Thumbs up New no ether diesel fuel = WD 40

I have read that WD 40 works just as good as starting fluid in a full size diesel. I decided to test this with my PAW 06. I mixed 50/50 30 weight motor oil and WD 40. The engine started right up with an mini electric starter and ran well at WOT. I did not have any success trying to get it to throttle down however it ran well in a no rc setting.

I also made a batch of 1 part 30 weight motor oil, 1 part lamp oil and 1 part WD 40. Still works well.

I could get it to idle down pretty well backing of the compression screw. This seemed to work better with the WD40 fuel. WD 40 smells like kerosene burning.

I have a few videos however I am trying to find a free app to edit them for U tube.

Grant
Old 08-06-2017, 04:19 PM
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1QwkSport2.5r
 
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WD40 is basically mineral spirits (paint thinner) and light oil and some dispersants.
Old 08-07-2017, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by grant-RCU View Post
I have read that WD 40 works just as good as starting fluid in a full size diesel. I decided to test this with my PAW 06. I mixed 50/50 30 weight motor oil and WD 40. The engine started right up with an mini electric starter and ran well at WOT. I did not have any success trying to get it to throttle down however it ran well in a no rc setting.

I also made a batch of 1 part 30 weight motor oil, 1 part lamp oil and 1 part WD 40. Still works well.

I could get it to idle down pretty well backing of the compression screw. This seemed to work better with the WD40 fuel. WD 40 smells like kerosene burning.

I have a few videos however I am trying to find a free app to edit them for U tube.

Grant
Yep, various people have discovered that their diesel engine will run with Etherless fuel over the years. The engine usually doesn't last too long on these concoctions. Broken crankshafts, crankpins and even split crankcases around the main bearing usually is the result. Trouble is that you have to increase the compression beyond "normal" settings to get ignition. Fortunately PAW spares are still available.

Last edited by qazimoto; 08-09-2017 at 04:43 AM.
Old 08-09-2017, 07:39 AM
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grant-RCU
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Real Kerosene and what is labeled kerosene in the stores such as Lowes and Walmart are not the same.

Low odor or odorless mineral spirits, most store kerosene, Kingsford lighter fluid and up to 68% of WD 40 are all the same Petroleum distillates Hydro treated light . CAS # 64742-47-8. This oil has a flash point range of 154 F to 165 F and a auto ignition temp of 456 F.

Real Kerosene is JET A or pump kerosene. CAS 8008-20-6 .

Kerosene has a flash point range of 100 F to 150 F and a auto ignition temp of 428 F.

Chevron specs their JET A with a flash point of 100 F and an auto ignition temp of 410 F.

Chevron sepcs there #2 diesel with a flash point of 125 F and an auto ignition temp of 494 F.

I would think the Jet A specs would be the most accurate due to this being aviation fuel. The next time I go out to fly the old Cessna, I am going to buy a gallon of it or see if I can get some from the storage tank sample.
Old 08-09-2017, 08:33 AM
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The pump kerosene I've used had a slightly green/brownish color to it whereas the Jet A fuel I got was clear as water. So at least around my neck of the woods, kerosene and Jet A are not the same. I believe Jet A is refined more and is cleaner. In my model diesels, my kerosene and Jet A run the same, make the same power, and are equally sooty. I do intend to experiment with regular pump diesel #2 to see how it runs.
Old 08-09-2017, 09:15 AM
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Pump diesel does not run as well as the mineral spirits. I tired it yesterday. More compression andsmokey and the engine sounds not too happy.

I think it is just dye n the kerosene vs no dye in the jet a. You can look up the msds for each and see.
Old 08-09-2017, 01:31 PM
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There was quite a lot of experimentation with Kero for model diesel engines here a few years ago. The technical experts with the local suppliers came back with statements like "all kero is basically Jet-A1" etc. The colour here is a shade of blue. It's there for safety reasons, so young kids won't mistake it for something else that's drinkable. Jet A1 from aviation sources may have anti fungal additives etc. Best thing is to experiment till you find something that works and then stick to it.
Old 08-09-2017, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by grant-RCU View Post
Pump diesel does not run as well as the mineral spirits. I tired it yesterday. More compression andsmokey and the engine sounds not too happy.

I think it is just dye n the kerosene vs no dye in the jet a. You can look up the msds for each and see.
I wouldn't be trying pump diesel without ether. I'm a purist - my fuel will always have ether in it.
Old 08-28-2017, 05:18 AM
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Hello All:

Yeas ago, I discovered by accident that W 40 would start my engine very easily. I put a small amount of it in the tank, started the engine and ran the tank dry. This was done with NO adjustments to the engine. The exhaust residue was black! I never attempted this again. If were a good idea, everybody would be doing it. Oh yes, the engine started first flip each time. Perhaps I should have learned to use WD 40 as a starting aid by priming the engine with it. I never though of doing this until now due to being less that bold. Perhaps I will try it soon.

Thought/comments?

Franchi
Old 09-08-2017, 08:38 AM
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The kero in stores and Jet A1 are low sulfur fuels, that is why they are clear. Franchi, black residue with improper fuel mix is your connecting rod big end going bye bye.

Last edited by controlliner; 12-11-2017 at 05:51 AM.
Old 12-10-2017, 01:08 PM
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Hi, long, long time i was here in RCU. I learned out the WD-40 has Dimethyl Ether <10% hence it works well as ignitor in the dieselfuel.
See this Material Safety Data Sheet: Click image for larger version

Name:	GHS_SDS_WD-40%20Specialist%20Automotive%20Belt%20Dressing-Asia%20(Sep2016).pdf
Views:	92
Size:	221.8 KB
ID:	2247411
Old 10-21-2018, 07:53 AM
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How about just simply using John Deer Starter Fluid and 25 wt mineral oil mixed 70/30 in a small jar marked with the required volume of each component then fill tank and fly. JD is 80% ether and the mineral oil will keep it from detonation. This is basically the old Drone Diesel fuel mix. The ether has a very wide fuel/air ratio like 8 -10 to 1. This works well in fixed compression diesel also. You can test other starter fluids to see what ones work (some have very low ether like 10%, price usually gives a good indication of how much ether is in the mix), work on a test stand to get the right compression and needle setting. One thing that may happen with a more current diesel with this fuel is reverse needle reaction. The old Drone did this all the time, as the engine warms after starting you needed to OPEN the needle to smooth out the run. This is kinda opposite of kero fuels where you lean the mixture to smooth the run while backing off the compression.

Best, DennisT
Old 08-31-2019, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Motorboy View Post
Hi, long, long time i was here in RCU. I learned out the WD-40 has Dimethyl Ether <10% hence it works well as ignitor in the dieselfuel.
See this Material Safety Data Sheet: Attachment 2247411
Our "ether" is diethyl ether, quite different to dimethyl ether particularly in auto ignition temperature.
Old 11-17-2019, 06:24 AM
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One ingredient that could be added to the WD40 mix to lower compression for starting is a few % of AMSOL Cetane improver. The main component is 2-Ethylhexyl nitrate, which has an auto ignition point of 250F (109C). It burns hot so don't overdue it. I would still use the 25% SAE 30 mineral oil as the lube as it has a calming effect on these components (much like kero) to prevent detonation. This also seems to work well with simple (cheap low ether) starter fluid and oil mix.

Best, DennisT
Old 11-21-2019, 11:04 AM
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The problem may be what we understand by "ounce."

Our ether has a specific gravity of about 0.8. So, 10 fluid ounces weighs 8 avoirdupois ounces. We usually (always?) mix by volume. Fluid ounces are measures of volume, not of weight.

A full can of John Deere ether may give us 10 fluid ounces of ether. In a quart can that's about 31.25%. Do I have that right?
Old 11-21-2019, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Lou Crane View Post
The problem may be what we understand by "ounce."

Our ether has a specific gravity of about 0.8. So, 10 fluid ounces weighs 8 avoirdupois ounces. We usually (always?) mix by volume. Fluid ounces are measures of volume, not of weight.

A full can of John Deere ether may give us 10 fluid ounces of ether. In a quart can that's about 31.25%. Do I have that right?
Yet another example of the elegant simplicity of the metric system.
Old 11-22-2019, 10:32 AM
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Agreed, but...
"fps" is my native language, and still exists in general use, at least here in the USA. John Deere cans are labeled in both systems. Despite some canny (pun) maneuvering* by several product makers, many here are unused to and uncomfortable with metric.

* Liquid products in particular are packaged in containers that look like quarts, half-gallons and gallons, and are priced as those were. Instead, using metric volumes near them results in the same price for from 5% to 10% less volume than the packaging they resemble. In the USA, it seems only dairy products retain the "full measure." A well disguised price hike... Ah, well...
Old 11-22-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Lou Crane View Post
Agreed, but...
"fps" is my native language, and still exists in general use, at least here in the USA. John Deere cans are labeled in both systems. Despite some canny (pun) maneuvering* by several product makers, many here are unused to and uncomfortable with metric.

* Liquid products in particular are packaged in containers that look like quarts, half-gallons and gallons, and are priced as those were. Instead, using metric volumes near them results in the same price for from 5% to 10% less volume than the packaging they resemble. In the USA, it seems only dairy products retain the "full measure." A well disguised price hike... Ah, well...
To mix diesel fuel you need a 500ml Graduated Cylinder. About $20 off ebay. Glass is better than plastic. Let's say you want 1 Litre of fuel mixed in the standard proportions of 20% Oil, 30% Diethyl Ether, and 50% Kero. Pour 200ml of oil into the cylinder. Pour it into the fuel container. Next 300ml of Ether, pour it into the fuel container. Then 500ml of Kero, then into the fuel bottle. Put the cap on the latter and shake vigorously. Remove cap add DII, maybe 15ml/Litre of fuel of it seems to work with our Kero. That's it, no complicated conversions to confuse even the most numerate. To mix 1/2 a Litre just halve the volumes.

When we Metrified in Australia the Metric Conversion Board conducted a number of studies.There's one on Youtube focused on the building and construction Industry. The study examined the waste generated in the construction of similar houses, using first Imperial then Metric. The latter expresses all measurement in Millimetres. So three Metres would be shown on the drawings as 3000, 1.2 Metres as 1200mm etc. The reduction in waste c/w Imperial dimensions was dramatic. No room for confusion, no in head calculations causing brain strain, no fractions, efficiency pure and simple. Saves lots of money as well.

Back in the bad old days a further complication was caused by haveing to use both Imperial and Customary US measures. A US Pint has 16 Fluid Ounces. An Imperial Pint had 20. A US Gallon is 4.2 Litres, an Imperial is 4.5. I used to work with a young American chap who felt that he had to teach both US FPS and Metric units. He was shocked to learn half way through the year that our Gallons were different to his :-)

Last edited by qazimoto; 11-22-2019 at 04:04 PM.
Old 11-23-2019, 10:26 AM
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Grant,
I have been doing some research on fuel for our model diesels and came across an additive that might make the WD 40 blend work better. In most blend an ignition improver is use around 2%. Amyl Nitrate/Nitrite is generally used in US blends. However, getting this is sometimes difficult. Some on this forum have used Amsoil Cetane improver. The main ingredient is 2-Ethylhexyl nitrate. This chemical has an auto ignition temperature of 266F (from the MSDS sheets). This is lower then diethyl ether which is 320F. I think if you add say 5 - 10% of the Amsoil (on the no ether thread they had a blend that use 20% Amsoil, 20% oil, 60% kero) to the blend it might use lower compression (you might need a bit more but this is a good starting point). The Amsol is availably in auto stores or online.

Best, DennisT

Last edited by Stuntguy13; 11-23-2019 at 03:56 PM.
Old 11-23-2019, 09:48 PM
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I put the wrong conversion rations above. A US Gallon is in fact 3.78541 Litres, an Imperial Gallon is 4.54609 Litres. One imperial gallon is approximately 1.2 US gallons. Plenty more opportunity for confusion.
Old 11-28-2019, 06:26 AM
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I don’t understand the push to make an ether-less fuel?!? A can of JD ether can be had for around $5 and one can is enough to make a quart of model diesel fuel. If there was a miracle replacement for diethyl ether, it would already being used. We wouldn’t need any “space age theory” threads about it. Yes, model diesels will run without ether once warmed and run on an ether-less fuel. But is the extra abuse on the engine worth it? I mean, seriously? Who flies diesel planes on WD-40 and mineral oil?

(insert a few face-palm emoji here)
Old 08-14-2020, 03:29 PM
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Q,
I think the idea is to find a fuel that is available and a reasonable cost, John Deer starter fluid is not always available. If the WD40 with Amsoil, mineral oil blend works those components are available at most auto/truck stop or home improvement stores. I like using the Amsoil/starter fluid/mineral oil should work also.

Best, DennisT
Old 08-15-2020, 01:54 PM
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It’s not going to work very well - if at all. There’s a reason nobody is selling premixed diesel fuel consisting of WD40 (basically paint thinner and a little light oil), Cetane booster, and mineral oil. That is just not going to work.

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