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paw .19 tbr clicks when the prop is fliped

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paw .19 tbr clicks when the prop is fliped

Old 04-18-2019, 05:18 PM
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LONGREDDOG
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Default paw .19 tbr clicks when the prop is fliped

Got a used PAW .19 tbr mark 2 diesel the other day. When you flip the prop over by hand it makes a clicking sound. Is this normal?
I have a PAW .09 and it does not make any noise like that.
Should I try and run it? It turns over smoothly and seems to have good compression.
Thanks for any advice! Ed
Old 04-21-2019, 05:07 PM
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qazimoto
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Originally Posted by LONGREDDOG View Post
Got a used PAW .19 tbr mark 2 diesel the other day. When you flip the prop over by hand it makes a clicking sound. Is this normal?
I have a PAW .09 and it does not make any noise like that.
Should I try and run it? It turns over smoothly and seems to have good compression.
Thanks for any advice! Ed
No, not normal! Probably a worn conrod "little end" . Often a consequence of regularly running overcompressed, or using a fuel without ignition improver.

PAW can supply and fit a new one.
Old 04-22-2019, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by qazimoto View Post
No, not normal! Probably a worn conrod "little end" . Often a consequence of regularly running overcompressed, or using a fuel without ignition improver.

PAW can supply and fit a new one.
Thank you for your advice,I will remove the rear cover and check it.
Ed
Well, gazimoto I believe you’re correct.
I took off the cover and the “big end” of the rod looks ok,
but I used a soft piece of wood to push on the piston and keep it stationery.
There is about 3 or 4 degrees of play when I rotate the prop.
Thank you again for your help. Ed





Last edited by LONGREDDOG; 04-22-2019 at 04:17 AM. Reason: Up date on results.
Old 04-25-2019, 04:50 AM
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A loose contra piston will also do the same thing with clicking when flipped.
Max
Old 04-25-2019, 07:28 AM
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Default Repair may be needed.

Originally Posted by maxtenet View Post
A loose contra piston will also do the same thing with clicking when flipped.
Max
As l wrote before, there is quite a bit of play when I hold the piston stationary and rotate the prop by hand.
The big end of the con rod looks ok, I can't see the small end that's on on the wrist pin but I suspect that's where the play is.
Im going to send it to be checked out soon.
Ed. Thank you all for your help!
Old 04-25-2019, 03:30 PM
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qazimoto
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Originally Posted by maxtenet View Post
A loose contra piston will also do the same thing with clicking when flipped.
Max
He said that the engine had good compression. A loose contra piston isn't conducive to good compression.

Last edited by qazimoto; 04-25-2019 at 08:10 PM.
Old 05-14-2019, 01:54 AM
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A contrapiston will 'click' into position if the vernier screw is backed off and the engine flipped over but its usually a one off event.
Old 05-14-2019, 05:50 AM
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just a quick up-date, called and talked to Dr. Diesel (Eric Clutton). He “talked” me through removing the con rod and l was able to get it out. The small end is damaged almost broken in two. I’m sending the part to him so he can match it to the correct one, as there’s several different rods that the .19 Tbr. used by PAW.
Ed Stout


Old 05-16-2019, 03:31 AM
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It would be interesting to see what it looked like, do you have any pictures?
Old 05-16-2019, 09:45 AM
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Damaged con rod from .19 tbr
Trying to attach pictures, hopefully I can succeed.
Old 05-16-2019, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LONGREDDOG View Post


Damaged con rod from .19 tbr
Trying to attach pictures, hopefully I can succeed.
Yep! That's a bad 'en. I have a collection of PAW conrods that look like that. Interestingly the Oliver tigers, Cubs etc don't egg out their little ends.
Old 05-16-2019, 10:26 PM
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Yes, that's a bad looking one!
I wonder what happened to it, it doesn't look like regular wear....
Old 05-16-2019, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Cox View Post
Yes, that's a bad looking one!
I wonder what happened to it, it doesn't look like regular wear....
If you consistently overcompressed it , or run fuel without ignition improver and really wind down on the compression screw, then it's quite easy to do with a PAW. Some sizes (eg PAW 09 Bluehead) were notorious for having a crank pin that wasn't always perpendicular to the liner centre-line, or parallel with the crankshaft centreline. The weakest part of the assembly was the little end which wore first.

Last edited by qazimoto; 05-16-2019 at 11:29 PM.
Old 05-17-2019, 01:53 PM
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Default PAW .19 TBR FULL of CARBON (was 19TBR clicks when prop is flipped)

Well. I've gotten a lot of good advice here on this thread so far, maybe you can help with something else.
When I took off the piston the crown has a lot of very brunt on carbon. I had to scrub (with a scrubbing pad) and soak in a cleaner in order to locate the small mark that shows which end to press out the wrist pin.
I had tried to scrape it off with a wooden stick, but that did not do a thing.
The bottom of the contra piston is also covered in the same hard black mess. Is there any EASY chemical or other method of removing it?
I don't want to dismantle the engine any further if I can help it. Should I just leave it alone and run it as it is?
Thankyou, Ed Stout





i
Old 05-17-2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LONGREDDOG View Post
Well. I've gotten a lot of good advice here on this thread so far, maybe you can help with something else.
When I took off the piston the crown has a lot of very brunt on carbon. I had to scrub (with a scrubbing pad) and soak in a cleaner in order to locate the small mark that shows which end to press out the wrist pin.
I had tried to scrape it off with a wooden stick, but that did not do a thing.
The bottom of the contra piston is also covered in the same hard black mess. Is there any EASY chemical or other method of removing it?
I don't want to dismantle the engine any further if I can help it. Should I just leave it alone and run it as it is?
Thankyou, Ed Stout





i
Ed,

PAW advise to just scrape the stuff off the piston top with a hobby knife blade. There are chemicals available for cleaning but I'd be cautious risking your valuable piston fit by using them. I'd also be inclined to not worry about the stuff on the contra piston. Once you get it running with good fuel, PAW suggests that carbon buildup won't be a serious problem, most of it it'll blow out the exhaust. That's also my experience. It's ok to clean it off if you ever have to remove the contra but otherwise it's too much trouble on a well running engine.

I have quite a few of the .15 TBR GTS PAWs which share many components with your .19. They're great engines with an ultimate power almost reaching Nelson standards.

Last edited by qazimoto; 05-17-2019 at 03:46 PM.
Old 05-17-2019, 04:52 PM
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Thanks, guess I’ll leave well enough alone! Hope Dr. diesel can match the damaged con rod so I can try and run it soon.

Thank you again for your help, Ed Stout

Last edited by LONGREDDOG; 05-17-2019 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Misplaced words
Old 01-18-2020, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by LONGREDDOG View Post
Thanks, guess Ill leave well enough alone! Hope Dr. diesel can match the damaged con rod so I can try and run it soon.

Thank you again for your help, Ed Stout
Ed,
I have used a scotch brite pad and a small dowel to get to the top to clean off the carbon on the contra piston.
Cut the scotch brite pad into a strip that is 1/2" wide, now use a 1/4" dowel and fold the 1/2' strip of scotch rite over the dowel and shove it into the piston sleeve.
turn the dowel while holding the scotch brite in place. The pad will remove the carbon build up on the contra piston and transfer ports.
After doing this you'll have to treat your engine as if it is a new one and do a break-in period again.

sosam117
Old 01-18-2020, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sosam117 View Post
Ed,
I have used a scotch brite pad and a small dowel to get to the top to clean off the carbon on the contra piston.
Cut the scotch brite pad into a strip that is 1/2" wide, now use a 1/4" dowel and fold the 1/2' strip of scotch rite over the dowel and shove it into the piston sleeve.
turn the dowel while holding the scotch brite in place. The pad will remove the carbon build up on the contra piston and transfer ports.
After doing this you'll have to treat your engine as if it is a new one and do a break-in period again.

sosam117
Thank you for your advice. I have installed a replacement con rod in the PAW .19 and have run it once.it seems ok.

the next time I have the head off, l will try your removal method. Thanks again, Ed Stout
Old 01-18-2020, 02:59 PM
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If your PAW .19 has a DS head (Diesel Squish -- domed piston or domed contra piston) Don't worry too much about the carbon build up.
The DS head will remove it on its own.
I asked Tony at PAW what the purpose for the DS was for. Two things, it swirls the fuel ( like a hemi head) and it reduces the carbon build up.

I have some old PAW engines that don't have the DS head (in the contra piston). but Tony said they can be updated (for a price).

sosam117

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