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Diesel 4 strokes

Old 03-28-2004, 09:22 PM
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capin
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

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Old 03-28-2004, 09:24 PM
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capin
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

TO MUCH FUN!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-28-2004, 06:08 AM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

Isnt it an idea to use external compression chambers on regular 2 strokes ?
That would make a conversion of a glow to diesel much easyer. (for me)

Question : how do you seal the contracilinder in the chamber to prevent leaking ? (O-rings or just tight fit ?)

Best regards

Frank
Old 11-28-2004, 08:04 AM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

Knarf, a tight fitting contrapiston and one or two O-rings depending on the size of the head.
Old 11-28-2004, 08:33 AM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

Thanks, what material are the O rings made of ? Rubber rings dont seem very heat resistent to me

Regards,

Frank
Old 11-28-2004, 10:59 AM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

Viton O rings will withstand the running temps, if the contra is fit close enough (1/2 thousandth) to not allow extremely hot combustion gasses to get to the O rings easily.

I tried regular O rings (the kind you get from a plumbing supply or hardware store) and they are not good. Viton are available from industrial suppliers.

AJC
Old 01-10-2005, 07:43 PM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

hello-if Jens Eirik is out there could any one tell me just how much metal you have to shave off on the os head or give me a cc size? thanks Erik once you go diesel you never go back
Old 01-11-2005, 12:29 AM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

You must calculate first how much you have shape off on the OS head. Recommending 20:1-22:1 compression ratio in cylinder head and make combustion camber with contrapiston who can regulate between 14:1 to max.

Jens Eirik
Old 01-11-2005, 02:00 AM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

I forgotten to write more, first remove material from engineblock then check the sleeve must be in same height as piston before you shape off cylinder head after you has calculated compression ratio.

Jens Eirik
Old 01-30-2005, 02:17 PM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

Doese anyone have a video of thier conversions?[] I really want to hear one.
Old 02-01-2005, 05:30 PM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

Sadly, I'm in the middle of moving but when I get my machines set back up I'm going to do a 48 os and a 91 or a 120. The asp 80 is neat but I haven't ran it in month's. They do sound neat!!!! to say the least. Brian P.S. I am getting a 4 stroke fleet to convert now!
Old 05-25-2005, 01:38 PM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

Jens: You have sure got my attention with your Lanova chamber idea. Congratulations on a very fine job, and generous sharing of your ideas! -Mike Biedul, Canada
Old 05-26-2005, 10:05 AM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

Is there any reason one wouldn't just make a new rod which is longer to give the needed increase in compression ratio? It seems to me that all the work on the head and sleeve leaves too much chance for error. A new rod would allow conversion back to standard use.

Greg
Old 05-26-2005, 10:18 AM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

To run standard model Diesel fuel you need lower compression not higher, I tried it in my Saito .80 and the compression is too high, it will start stone cold and run at idle and slighty above. Beyond that it begins to sound way overcompressed. A longer rod is not feasable anyway because most fourstroke pistons come to the very top of the cylinder.
Old 05-26-2005, 11:42 AM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes


ORIGINAL: hobbsy

To run standard model Diesel fuel you need lower compression not higher, I tried it in my Saito .80 and the compression is too high, it will start stone cold and run at idle and slighty above. Beyond that it begins to sound way overcompressed.
I calculated and removed material in the cylinder head and crankcase and come up to about 20:1 compression ratio, then i maked the combustion cell/lanova and i regulate compression ratio between 14:1 and 19:1 with contrapiston in combustion cell/lanova. Works very well..

A longer rod is not feasable anyway because most fourstroke pistons come to the very top of the cylinder.
It is not possible, because the cylinder head has to big combustion camber and less compression ratio. Therefore i removed the material in cylinder head.


Jens Eirik
Old 05-26-2005, 12:15 PM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

I sure would like to try one of those on my Saito 1.50. I am seriously considering getting a MicroLux lathe from MicroMark.
Old 05-26-2005, 01:49 PM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

How about a shorter rod, or a concave piston?
Old 05-26-2005, 03:33 PM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

Hobbsy: Jens had mentioned earlier that he didn't think Saito was a suitable candidate for dieseling. I suspect there would be problems with the valves clearing the pistons. The Saitos have their valves canted at an angle, kind of complicating the geometry. But I think the worst problem with Saitos is their one-piece cylinder/head; the attachment is the flange at the bottom of the cylinder. I should think the implications of trying to do machining inside that can would be tough. I don't think it's as simple as shaving down the block, though that's about all you could do on Saitos to increase compression: no room for shaving the cylinder flange. Maybe a different piston, with serious recesses for the valve clearance, but then you are changing the mass of the recipricating parts and having to do very fine machining. Man the arithmetic gets complicated too, for me anyway. There were diesel model engines in the 1940s that had fixed compression, but every modern one I've seen has the contra piston. Tweaking compression really is essential I think. On the other hand, I'm the guy that broke a crank trying to get more go out of a 1960 Webra .19 diesel by cranking down the compression and over propping....nice engine up to that point. That chamber Jens has machined is really an elegant solution. If he were to make up a batch, I would certainly buy one. All the critical machining is in that unit; the contra piston really needing a tight fit. Just to experiment, I bet we could just tap a rod for a wide fine thread screw and not use a contra piston at all. Then one could experiment without any machine tools (lathe, screw cutting gears, etc). You would just need a drill, a glow plug tap, and a tap for the "contra" screw; probably want the run of the screw to be pretty long to reduce blow by. Just an idea.
Old 05-26-2005, 03:55 PM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

Fixed compression are possible, but it is not cheap to make fuel, fixed compression need 70% ether and 30% castoroil...[X(] Who can buy so much ether here????

Jens Eirik
Old 05-26-2005, 04:00 PM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

Hobbsy and Jens: I'm not understanding something. Jens: you are talking about 16:1 to 22:1 range on compression (including Lanova cell I think). Hobbsy: you were saying your Saito 80 is OVERcompressed at 14:1. Something is not computing for me there. If the stock Saito is overcompressed, a simple spacer under the cylinder flange would reduce compression, though you would need longer pushrods. Jens is saying he removed material to INCREASE compression. Can either of you clarify this for me? I'd like to fool around with this on one of my Saitos, and now I cannot tell from your comments whether to try adding or or to try subtracting combustion chamber volume before machining a Lanova cell.....
Old 05-26-2005, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

20:1 compression ratio in cylinder head only without Lanova cell who can regulate compression ratio.

About Saito..it can be difference causes as turbulence, form in cylinderhead who can make the dieselfuel more hot, maybe there are hotspot to ignite fuel easy..

Jens Eirik
Old 05-26-2005, 04:22 PM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

I have an early Saito .80 with 15.6 to 1 compression ratio and an early 1.50 which is almost as high. I have tried the .80 several times, even removed the coil from the glow plug. It will flip start on the first flip after priming and has the most beautiful idle you ever saw but when you approach 5,500 rpm it begins to make cylinder removing noises. I think the Lanova cell used to reduce the compression and also to make it adjustable would make a great Diesel out of it. I think the hemi combustion chamber would be an advantage. Mr. Davis' fuel is design to let a converted engine run with about the same compression ratio or better stated compression pressure as the stock glow engine. By the same token, I tried my Saito .50 and it is just shy of having enough compression to run reliably as a Diesel. It will start using glow plug heat and will run at full throttle but below half throttle it cools off and quits.
Old 05-26-2005, 07:04 PM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

what about a piston with a higher compression height? it would save machining the block and head and it wouldn't change the rocker arm geometry just a thought I'm planing to dieselize a os .48 trying to take to short way out.I was going to make it out of 6061-t6 is this ok? thanks erik58
Old 05-26-2005, 10:24 PM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes

A piston with a different wrist pin location would solve a lot of problems.

I believe there are people already making their own pistons.

Old 05-27-2005, 03:04 AM
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Default RE: Diesel 4 strokes


ORIGINAL: Motorboy

Fixed compression are possible, but it is not cheap to make fuel, fixed compression need 70% ether and 30% castoroil...[X(] Who can buy so much ether here????

Jens Eirik
Not exactly. The 70% mix is what Micron recommended. This does not mean that the engine won't run on other mixes. Some of my friends and I have shimmed the heads of our Micron 5 fixed compression engine to run on a standard 40% ether mix. Depending on the weather, we may have to change to more ether if noticeably cold, and less if hot.

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