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Oliver .09 Tiger Cubs

Old 10-07-2009, 09:41 AM
  #1  
Dan Vincent
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Default Oliver .09 Tiger Cubs

I've been going through some engines I may be selling and am torn when it comes to parting with these Olivers.
The TC-1 is SN TC48 and the MK-II is a MOD engine with SN 1101.

I have a question for the Oliver experts concerning my MK-III Schneurle.

Arne Hende' brought me this engine and my eyes popped when he pulled it out of a plastic bag. He put his finger up to his lips and said Shhhhh, guys would kill for this engine but I wanted you to have it.

He said it has been modified for some 1.5cc racing class in the UK and now has a socket type compression screw and the mounts have been thinned a bit to fit into a slimmer fuselage. He never said whether he modified it or picked it up but the workmanship is superb, like something Arne would do. I have no idea if it has been internally modified like the MOD factory custom versions.

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Old 10-07-2009, 05:24 PM
  #2  
qazimoto
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Default RE: Oliver .09 Tiger Cubs


ORIGINAL: Dan Vincent

I've been going through some engines I may be selling and am torn when it comes to parting with these Olivers.
The TC-1 is SN TC48 and the MK-II is a MOD engine with SN 1101.

I have a question for the Oliver experts concerning my MK-III Schneurle.

Arne Hende' brought me this engine and my eyes popped when he pulled it out of a plastic bag. He put his finger up to his lips and said Shhhhh, guys would kill for this engine but I wanted you to have it.

He said it has been modified for some 1.5cc racing class in the UK and now has a socket type compression screw and the mounts have been thinned a bit to fit into a slimmer fuselage. He never said whether he modified it or picked it up but the workmanship is superb, like something Arne would do. I have no idea if it has been internally modified like the MOD factory custom versions.

Dan,

Your Schneurle Cub certainly looks like it has been fitted with a very nicely executed “push/pull" diesel head, and the Aluminum cylinder fins have been machined down in diameter possibly to help it fit into a tight cowl. All this may have been for a British 1/2 A Team race model. The Schneurle Cubs were a popular choice for this class in its heyday. Now days people use Eastern European 1.5cc versions of F2C motors.

All three versions of the Oliver Cub shown in your pics are now being made again.

The Mk1 is now available in a superb version for Vintage 1/2A team race (different rules to the other class) made by Steve Rothwell in Australia. While the original version had a rather flimsy crankshaft the R150 does not.

Both the Mk2 and Schneurle Cubs are being made again by the Tom Ridley/ John Oliver partnership.

All superb engines, how can anyone suggest that this decade isn't a golden Age for diesels?

Ray
Old 10-07-2009, 10:24 PM
  #3  
Dan Vincent
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Default RE: Oliver .09 Tiger Cubs

Wow, sounds like my original Oliver engines could be devaluated so I may not sell them.

Thanks for the info.
Old 10-07-2009, 10:43 PM
  #4  
qazimoto
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Default RE: Oliver .09 Tiger Cubs


ORIGINAL: Dan Vincent

Wow, sounds like my original Oliver engines could be devaluated so I may not sell them.

Thanks for the info.
Dan,

thats what I would have thought however it doesn't seem to be happening. The "users", ie the OT bought to be used by fliers seen to have dropped in value but not the collectors standard motors like yours. The Mk 1 in particular seem to bring good prices still.

Ray
Old 10-08-2009, 12:43 AM
  #5  
qazimoto
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Default RE: Oliver .09 Tiger Cubs

Dan,

here are some of my Olly Cubs. Rothwell R150 (Oliver Tiger Cub Mk1) on the left, Mk2 Oliver Tiger Cub (Mod) centre, and a team race modified Schneurle Cub on the right with a Cox 049 banjo and needle. This is/was a very common modification. The R150 also has a Cox 049 compatable venturi/banjo assembly. All the engines are used as runners.


Ray.

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Old 10-09-2009, 06:42 AM
  #6  
Dan Vincent
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Default RE: Oliver .09 Tiger Cubs

I boxed up a few engines this week and thought you might like to see how my Olivers came out.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:24 PM
  #7  
fiery
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Default RE: Oliver .09 Tiger Cubs

Has anyone acquired a Tom Ridley / John Oliver Tiger Cub yet?
Old 10-10-2009, 12:11 AM
  #8  
qazimoto
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Default RE: Oliver .09 Tiger Cubs

Fiery,

Not that anyone's mentioned online on the Barton forum.

However a fellow club member has taken delivery of his Oliver Tiger Major from the new production and many people have reported recieving their OT Mk4's.

The Model Engine News website reports that Tom is taking orders for the Mk2 Cub and no-one doubts his ability to deliver a very high quality product.

Dan,

it normally doesn't matter a great deal, but if your Cubs are going onto Ebay then someone will pick up the slight labeling error.

The Schneurle Cub isn't a Mk3.

The One you have correctly labeled as a Mk2 is known by some people as a Mk3. There were major changes in the crankcase casting in the late 1960's to accomodate the fitting of a collector ring around the exhaust. The CS Cub in your picture looks more like the "real" Mk2 crankcase. The cylinder bolt bosses cast into the case are the main other difference and from my early Mk2 I'd guess that the early ones were sandcast like your Mk1.

However the purists and the Oliver family however still called it a Mk2.

The Schneurle Cub was never called a Mk3, just a "Schneurle Cub".

Very nice display by the way.

Ray
Old 10-10-2009, 06:35 AM
  #9  
Dan Vincent
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Default RE: Oliver .09 Tiger Cubs

Ray,

It seems like there are many opinions on what to call the Oliver Tiger Cubs.

The Mark-1 seems to be set in stone no problem here although I have seen different type S/N's. Mine has TC48 on the left beam but others have just a number with no TC. The one in Mike Clanford's book does not have the TC letters.

The CS-Oliver TC reproduction is what I would call a MK-II, Series-1, while the one in my picture is the later version (with lip for exhaust ring) which I would call a MK-II, Series-II.

The Schneurle Cub should be a MK-III to me because it is an entirely different case. There are at least two different case castings for the schneurle. Mine has a bulge on the bypass above the beam mounts while others have a flat bypass, like a MK-II.

I'd love to hear some more comments on what to properly call the Schneurle version because I've had guys from England and Scotland in the house who also refer to the Schneurle as a MK-III.

Old 10-10-2009, 07:52 AM
  #10  
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Default RE: Oliver .09 Tiger Cubs

ORIGINAL: Dan Vincent


The CS-Oliver TC reproduction is what I would call a MK-II, Series-1, while the one in my picture is the later version (with lip for exhaust ring) which I would call a MK-II, Series-II.

The Schneurle Cub should be a MK-III to me because it is an entirely different case. There are at least two different case castings for the schneurle. Mine has a bulge on the bypass above the beam mounts while others have a flat bypass, like a MK-II.

I'd love to hear some more comments on what to properly call the Schneurle version because I've had guys from England and Scotland in the house who also refer to the Schneurle as a MK-III.

Dan,

Ok, the pics below show (from the left, pics 1 and 2) Tom Ridley's Mk2 and Schneule Cubs. They are thus labled on the Model Engine News web site in the announcement regarding production.

See: http://www.modelenginenews.org/ in the October edition.

Note both have the "bulge" and they both have the same crankcase!

Then look in my b/W pic (centre pic, no. 3) of my late Mk2 (or Mk3) and my Schneurle Cub. Both lack the bulge and they share the same crankcase.

The fourth picture (on the right) is of three late production Cubs taken from page 61 of John Goodall's book "The Olivers and a Tiger". Notice that all three Cubs, a Mk2, a Schneurle and a Mk2 R/C Cub all have the bulge and hence share the same crankcase casting. No doubt the Schneurle will have extra passages cut internally but I maintain it is the same externally.

Now the label for the pic from Goodall's book says "Cub Mk3, Mk3 Schneurle Special, and a R/C Mk2". He is one who calls the later Mk2's, Mk3's. Yet what's the difference between the R/C motor and the other with radial porting?

Ray
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Old 10-10-2009, 08:35 AM
  #11  
Dan Vincent
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Default RE: Oliver .09 Tiger Cubs

Ray,

Yeah, it gets pretty confusing. Maybe I need to do a choice of box liner lettering to the eventual buyer.

Too much for my pretty little head.

I didn't know the MK-II can also be found with the "Bulge" case.

Wonder if John Oliver could explain why the bulge was added and why it's not on the new repro or continuation Olivers.

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