RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Treven,
The mineral oil I was using was fresh oil not used crankcase oil. It came from draining out the dregs from the container that had housed the fresh oil for my car's oil change. It is part synthetic and has all sorts of additives. The amount of additives ensures that they are nowhere depleted by the time the oil is due for a change. There is a big safety factor with this oil, it is produced by a company which specialise in oils and additives for the diesel fleets of haulage and transport companies. They have been in the business for 100 years or so. I got 1/2 a jam jar full which gave me enough to try without going out and buying some more. The oil is alkaline to offset the acidity produced by diesel engines.

Just as an aside..... PAW recommend leaving the piston at the bottom of the stroke for 3 days or so after using a diesel engine to allow the acid vapours to escape.

Thanks for your comments on the temperature of crankcase and head, I was a bit concerned that the crankcase was so hot - even though it's logical really without the cooling effect of ether. I can't measure the temps so am glad that you reckon they are O.K.

I will probably try pump diesel at some stage. I want to limit my testing to just a few things at first so I get a better idea of what is interacting with what.

Andy,
The photos I put up are not of the moors. I live on an island and one side of the island faces west and has lovely, firm, sandy beaches. The other side of the island faces east and looks over a channel that seperates us from the mainland. This side has large areas of salt marsh. In the photos the stony areas are the pebbly beach which fringes the salt marsh.

I will put up some photos of the area where I test my engines, but will have to go take some first :)
I go there as it's not far from home, 10 minute drive, and is far enough away to not cause a noise nuisance. I will take some photos of the moors where I fly when I get chance and put them up as well.

You could have a look around the website.....
http://www.lakesgc.co.uk/indexfirstpage.htm

This is the local gliding club, a mile up the road from me. They do aerotow most weekends and there are some photos of the Island and some of the surrounding area.

I must admit that the testing I have done so far using olive oil as lubricant makes me think that it is superior in a number of ways to castor. It does seem to give improved starting and running and it does give the impression that it is improving combustion. Unless used with a fairly high percentage of ether then castor gives nothing but trouble... as we are trying to eliminate, or at least reduce to a minimum, the ether the castor is not much good for our purpose.

I like the olive oil when combined with a small amount of ether and castor. I like the car engine oil when used with a small amount of ether and castor and also as a non-ether mix. I want to try olive oil as the only lubricant in a non-ether mix and I also want to try a mix of olive oil and car engine oil.... just to see what happens [X(]

Reg

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Andy,
A couple of photos of the salt marsh area where I go to test my engines.

The first one has a small island in the background with an ancient ruined castle on it . The castle is the building on the right hand side.

This is Piel Island and has it's own king !!!!

The landlord of the pub (there is only a pub and a few houses on the island) is known as the King of Piel and he can make people into Knights of Piel.

The ceremonies for creating a new king or a knight involve a very old helmet and sword and a lot of beer being poured over the persons head !!! They also have to sit in a VERY old wooden chair that reputedly came out of the castle originally. The chair stands in the pub and anyone going in and sitting in it has to buy everybody in their a drink [X(]

I forgot I had these photos. They were taken this year when visitors came to stay with us.

Reg

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Andy,

First photo... typical of the area where I live and fly.

Others are of one of the moors where I go slope soaring, this one has 12 windmills dotted about, but they are away from the bit I normally use.

Reg

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Acidity with diesel used to have alot to do with the sulpher in the fuel. Here in CA. we now have ultra low sulpher fuel. I'd guess that you have had that for a long time now? Where does the acidity come from besides sulpher?

Treven.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Reg,

Thanks for the link to your club and images of your Island Paradise. I am, at this moment, being consumed with envy,, in a nice way. :)

Olive oil,, YES, it looks like we've discovered something quite interesting and useful.

About oil mix ratios in two stroke diesels. As the crank bearing surfaces get lots of fresh lubrication circulating throughout, we may just be able to get away with LOTS less lubricating oil in our mixes. The problem, really, is the plain bushed connecting rod. Other two strokes as in chainsaws, dirt bikes and snowmachines get down to even as low as 100:1 and do just fine because the rods carry needle bearings. I once owned a Webra .60 Blackhead on glow that, at the time, was a real honker. It had a connecting rod with needle bearings at the top and was plain bushed at the bottom. So if we had a model, diesel engine that carried needle bearings in the rod, what could we get away with in terms of percentage and type of lube?

That question might be answered here. http://www.tanaka-usa.com/index.php?section=38

This engine is claimed to have the same emissions as a four stroke despite being a two stroke. They do it by improved fuel atomization for more efficient combustion AND by using a catalytic converter in their muffler. I have not taken one apart yet, but it's likely that this engine will be needle bearinged at both ends of the rod.

A diesel conversion of this engine might reveal the possibility of running 100:1 diesel mixes using, well, anything you might like to try. I realize that ether does lots of cooling and that blowing smoke, (oil) cools a lot too but this engine has a lot of cooling fin area and it runs fine on gasoline.

Neat, lets a guy fly a giant scale without the expense of glow fuel and without the bulk of Walbro carb and spark ignition.

Pictured is two views of the engine, along with the internals of the muffler and all the parts you eliminate by converting to glow [:'(] or diesel :D

The one pictured has been donated to the cause of doing the conversion. Don't let the linked picture fool you, the one I have is from their portable drill and with all the junk stripped off, it's a very compact, relatively lightweight unit.

Stay tuned, if the project is a success, I'll be starting a new thread. [>:]

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

>>Acidity with diesel used to have alot to do with the sulpher in the fuel. Here in CA. we now have >>ultra low sulpher fuel. I'd guess that you have had that for a long time now? Where does the acidity >>come from besides sulpher?

>>Treven

I don't know ! If PAW reckon to leave the piston at the bottom of the cylinder for 2 to 3 days to allow acid byproducts to escape then.... I bow to their superior wisdom, 50 years worth I think it is !

The manufacturer of the oil I use in my car uses additives to ensure the oil can exceed the demands made on it by the diesel process.... they also make it alkaline to counter the acidity of the diesel engine. They have been in business for 100 years... again I bow to their superior knowledge !

Their oil can be, and has been, used to extend the service periods for oil changes to twice the normal mileage. A car running on their oil products did 250,000 miles. It was stripped down by an independent lab and declared good for another 250,000. That car had only ever seen oil changes at twice the normal interval so I guess they know something about diesels. Their oil products are only found in specialist suppliers, normal garages don't stock it.

Andy,
That looks to be an interesting engine with some serious possibilities .[X(]

Will be interesting to see how you get on with it.

Tomorrow could be a flying day, looking at the weather report.
I have made a smaller version of the yeast tin fuel tank so I can easily try some different mixes.
It is a lot easier if I can just take the lid off the fuel tank and tip a different mix of fuel in. I want to try my PAW 2.49, the one with the RC carb so I get chance to see how different fuel blends actually perform when flying.

Reg

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Treven,
A motor ingests air and fuel into the combustion chamber , the air contains mostly nitrogen along with the reqired oxygen for combustion . The nitrogen in the presence of combustion combines with the fuel byproducts to form nitrouse oxide and nitric acid both corrosive, if theres sulphur in the fuel there will also be sulphuric acid in the exhaust along with sulphur dioxide. Now modern engines run lower compression ratios to reduce the nitrous products in emissions , with diesels this is not possiable, hence the tightly controlled electronuc injection systems now in use on new diesels. Our model diesels welll we just still live in the dark ages, and continue to produce toxic pollutants.
Reg,
Both my cheap vegi oil and olive oils came out clear after the modification , just like andy's- maybe we cooked ours longer and drove out the excess water??
I havent contacted my bio chemist yet re specifics , I've been busy organiseing accomodation in the city for my son while he's at trade school, hope to get an email away sometime this week with a list of questions.
Andy,
Your 10% lube runs with olive oil and castor are interesting. Might the slowing and stopping with the castor be due to laquers forming due to higher combustion temps?
Castor can be stabilised to reduce/stop laquer formation by addition of SMALL amounts of vitamine "E".
Glad you gave the modded oilive oil a try Andy, its performance looks good with the benefit of easier starts with low/no ether fuels, not sure I'm game to run only 10% tho :), I did try 20% and was happy with it.
Stewart

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Reg,

Yes, the big airplane guys enjoy that sort of stuff and I did too at one time but gassers are heavy with the coil, magneto etc, electronic ignition costs as much as the engine and glow, well, we won't go there, the fuel is expensive even at 5% because of how much you use in just one flight. Getting four flight out of a gallon,,, nah, I don't want that. BUT a stripped, dieselized version solves EVERYTHING. Cheap fuel, (ether not required) MILEAGE, POWER, TORQUE, LIGHT, and maybe, if the theory works, a dry exhaust.

But I've run into a snag. [:@] The engine pictured is no longer available to me. :(

In any event, having been alerted to the features and high quality of this piece of machinery, I'm going to see if I can track another one down. Or I'll buy just the jug and build something around that. So far, I'm convinced that ball bearings aren't needed, they just add weight. But I'd retain the needle bearings in the rod. Maybe I'll build the case to accept bearings but install a bushing insert just to see if there's any difference between the two.

Stewart,

About clear BioLube,,, I'm wondering if maybe the dish soap used might be a factor. Sunlight brand is very popular here, they add lemon in some form, the real thing, not just an artificial scent. Lemon, as used on fried fish to flavour and reduce the oily taste. But I also suspect water. In fact, my first batch actually has little globs of water settled to the bottom of the bottle. Maybe the lemon component enhances the settling out of any remaining water.

About running 10% oil mixes. You may be right about the Vitamin E but in another way. I had mentioned a test where I put 20% pharmacy castor with 80% kerosene into a clear bottle and give it a good shake. At warm temperatures, it mixed for a short bit but promptly started to settle out. BUT, after sitting days in the freezer, the separation line is exactly 50/50. So SOME of the kerosene is in suspension in the oil. It looks like the oil has reached some sort of saturation level. Your mention if Vitamin E a while back prompted me to add a few drops to the 2 ounces of mix. After sitting for nearly a week, the separation is now at 60%+ so it looks like the E enhanced the oil's capacity to absorb more kerosene.

But the erratic runs I had, I'm sure, were due to separation of the oil from the kerosene. Those runs were at or just above freezing in most cases with one session done during snow flurries.

Yes, I too am just tickled about the Lube contribution to this little adventure of ours. I don't mind a little dabbling in witchcraft to get good oil, locally and somewhat more cheaply. And the 10% was just the relentless, (reckless) experimenting I'm wont to do. This ole .15 just needs a new rod, now and then is all. [>:] If I had a spanking new PAW, or MVVS or,, well, no way.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Hi Stewart,
Thanks for the explanation on acidity, I didn't know why but guessed there was a very good reason for both PAW's advice to leave the piston at the bottom of the bore for a few days, and the car diesel oil being deliberately made alkaline to combat acidity... now I know... well a bit more than I did before [:o]

I look forward to getting some more information if the bio-chemist has time to correspond with you.

Stewart & Andy,
I will look into the possibility that you two were extracting more water by "cooking" the olive oil for longer. The 3 batches of oil I have produced so far have all been hazy. If held up to a light it is not possible to see the bulb clearly through the oil.

However, once the olive oil is mixed with the desired amount of paraffin then the resultant mix is clear. Perhaps the small quantity of water that may be present in my modified oil will enhance running :D It does seem to work very well though so I am not unduly worried, although I will heat it for longer next time I make some.

Cost of olive oil was mentioned a couple of times during the various messages. I don't mind buying some good quality olive oil to modify. By using the modified olive oil as lubrication we can eliminate castor, which is quite expensive and also ether which is also expensive. The olive oil is now starting to look reasonably economical if we eliminate the two most expensive parts of a commercial diesel mix..... not counting the ignition improver which we may add in small percentages.

There is seldom anything worth watching on T.V. so the time can be better spent watching the latest batch of lubrication cooking, in any case it doesn't take long to make and is easy to clean
up after.

I was hoping to go flying today and accomplish some testing as well. Unfortunately the day started grey and dreary looking, certainly not inviting enough to clamber onto the moors. I ended up doing some chores that need (desperately) doing, while thinking... if I get these out of the way now I get to fly more later.... hopefully !

I am keeping an eye on the weather for the next few days, might still get a nice day yet.

Reg

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Why are you guys trying to make the oil? What are is the goal?

Is it to be green?

Engine oil is the cheapest, easiest and so far I think it works the best.

Reg, you even commented that engine oil took lower compression.

I wish you guys could come flying with me and see how well my mix works... I'd like to see your mixes as well.

I've got a good flying mix. I want you guys to FINISH one of your mixes. We need results! I support the efforts here but I'm pushing for soulitions. ( all in good fun )



Treven.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Treven,
Motor oil has most of the desired properties this is true, but ---- some/most motor oils have additives that inhibit combustion , these additives are to prolong the life of the oil, but are undesireable in a 2 st diesel, Andy found this with I think the aircraft oil.
Olive oil, well the process is easy and yeilds a clean moderatly priced lube oil that so far is only showing desireable things, Andy's test with 10% not showing any undue stress indicates that 20% should be a safe bet , yeilding easy starting hot or cold and good throttling with the added bonus of a CLEAN exhaust. Dureing my tests the exhaust is almost clear, wereas with castor it runs BLACK!!!!!! as does my tests with motor oils.
We are searching for cheaper, better/best fuel components to give cheaper, better fuel, no argument that pump diesel and motor oils do work, but results are very varied.
Stewart

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

We are searching for cheaper, better/best fuel components to give cheaper, better fuel, no argument that pump diesel and motor oils do work, but results are very varied.
Stewart

Have you tried it yet? My results have been very consitent since I have come up with my final mix.

Did you read that Reg had to back off the compression screw on his engine oil mix?

The idea that engine oil reduces the fuels ability to burn may not be true. It just may reduce the ability of the oil to burn which just might be a good thing.

I think olive oil needs to be compared to engine oil directly or the whole thing may be a big waste of time unless "green" is the goal and then I admit it wins.

Personally I don't think what fuel I burn in my models makes a bit of difference to the overall enviromental situation. Transportation and buiding energy is a different story.

So what is the goal of the Olive oil mix?

Saying that the olive oil mix is better when no one is flying it consitently yet is a bit optomistic. I'm flying my mix a lot. You should think about trying it. Darn, I wish you guys lived near me and we could all fly together.......

Treven.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Trevan,
In the past i have run diesels with motor oil fuels , I've also tried 2 st oils both straight and mixed with motor oil and castor oil.
I hand start my diesels and have found the olive oil gives easier starting, Im happy to use 20% ether in my fuel in order to get easy hand starts, but even with the 20% ether the olive oil is noticeably better than other oils ive used. I got my first diesel at 8yo and am 52yo now so i do have the odd start behind me, when comercial fuel was still available I just used to use that , but since its demise here in Australia I had no choice but to mix my own and so have tried different things in a quest for acceptable price and performance.
So far I'm happy with my mix of 20% Ether, 20% modded olive oil and 60%lighting kerro. This mix gives easy hand starts, produces good power, gives a longer run time( over 1-1-1 mix) and is clean, and moderatly priced.
Stewart

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Stewart,
You have definetly been doing this longer than I have.

I guess we are back to whatever works well for you is good and our little diesels will burn more than one kind of fuel.

I like hand starts too and can do it on my 6% ether, pump diesel mix but it has to be done just right and it probably won't work on a small engine without more ether.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Some interesting commentary and I'm going to respond, in part, by making this submission.

Today it was a balmy 15C and that's 60 on the Fahrenheit scale. Perfect for an afternoon of diesel madness.

So, this gave me an opportunity to try to get that Castor/WD40 mix running. First though, I ran a mix of 20% OliveLube, and 80% WD40 to find the settings. A more sensible oil content. At first, NO Amsoil ignition improver. After some fiddling, I had a run. It ran but sounded somewhat harsh. Max compression to start and only a bit off of that for a run. Top end 8K. So I added Amsoil ignition improver in larger increments and things got better and better all the way up to 2%. The compression screw was taken back a full half turn and a bit. Very smooth, nice, not noisy, and top end approaching 9K.

Satisfied with that, I made up a mix of 20% Klotz Castor and 80% WD40 and again, no Amsoil ignition improver. This time, no run, no matter what. I tried and tried and tried, no go, no way, no how. THIS time I made absolutely sure that we had no separation of oil from the WD40 by dunking the entire tank into a jug of very hot water. The tank/fuel was hot to the touch and would stay warm to the touch for a good ten minutes. The oil would remain in suspension for at least a half hour using this strategy. So THIS time, we could not blame starting difficulties on the low temp separation of the castor.

So the Amsoil was added in increments and in this case, we needed 4% to give us a good run with the compression screw out a half turn.

The conclusion I might draw from the preceding is that the OliveLube has some ignition improving qualities of its own. This may account for its idle enhancing properties.

The next experiment is related to the pictures enclosed. We are gaining more skill at producing BioFuel. So we now have better facilities to produce in quantity. Set up are four jugs to make up about a gallon at a time.

Our fuel is now clear with no long settling time required. The trick was to make up special jugs that would allow the left over methanol and water to evaporate. The brews were quite cloudy as long as they stayed in sealed containers. Once exposed to air for a day, they cleared up perfectly. So, I suspect that water is also the culprit in a cloudy BioLube.

So with very good samples of canola/soy, corn, and sunflower BioFuel, I proceeded to try to get these to run as B100 fuels. That is, no ether OR kerosene. Just 2% Amsoil, ignition improver.

As before, it took some gnarly effort to get these fuels to run. The needle needs to be out six turns. The compression needs to be maxed to start and then, needs to be milked out some 3/4ths of a turn. At least on this day, on these brews.

The Corn BioFuel was the easiest to get going by far and ran the best, with better power and smoother runs. I was glad to find this out as I was prepared to make up a gallon of the canola/soy just because it was cheaper. Well, I found a brand of pure corn oil that was only a dollar more so that was a good thing and will be the base for all my future experiments with BioFuel.

Next up was to revisit running kerosene and OliveLube compared to Castor and also compared to Virgin Olive Oil and also unmodified Corn Oil as lube.

Amsoil at 2% was used in all the runs. This time I found the OliveLube giving easier starts than Castor. No complaints with Castor, the Olive just felt easier to work with and also gave better throttling.

The Virgin Olive Oil was tried right after the OliveLube and it wasn't bad but there WAS a difference. Modifying the Olive Oil is definitely doing something beneficial.

However, surprisingly, the straight Corn Oil was pretty good. All very subjective but that's just how it all felt. Next up to make will be some Corn BioLube and see how that compares to Olive.

About throttling. In all of this experimenting, one goal was to try and find a fuel/mix/formula that would give us easy starts, good power and good throttling. In most cases, the throttling remained a serious issue. With the top end set, consistently, the idle became undercompressed. Without some or even lots of ether, idling and throttling becomes troublesome. And remember, the origin of this thread was to run diesel with NO ether.

It's becoming more apparent that if you need throttling, then ether is the answer. Well, not entirely. There IS a possible fix, a mechanical one and we just have to buckle down and make our device. That is, KELLY's device. Graciously provided by him to eminent domain, is a possible, final solution to our dilema of running a no ether fuel. Kelly has even provided for a means to adjust the high AND low compression independently. At idle, the low combustion pressures allow for higher compression. As the throttle is opened up, higher combustion pressures forces the contra-piston to resist the spring and allow for reduced compression at full power. The BIG problem is to make such a device small enough for our little stalwart, the Norvel .15. Even the .40 has not much of the required space to accommodate such a device. HOWEVER, that Tanaka 23cc certainly has possibilities.

A larger engine might give us more leeway in the fuel mixes we're playing with. A larger engine should be less sensitive to the need for ether. A larger engine will have carb passages appropriately larger along with stronger suction so that viscosity will be less of an issue. A larger engine may have less drastic differences in heat and/or compression settings between full bore and idle.

So what if there came about a two stroke diesel for your lawn and garden that ran on B100 BioDiesel fuel that had a non toxic, biodegradable and virtually dry exhaust? And a peanuty flavoured exhaust at that. Or even if you used kerosene, with the Tanaka's efficiency and catalytic element and 100:1 OliveLube,,, well, you get the idea.

So, thanks bunches to Kelly for his input. And too, it was he who alerted me to the various BioDiesel websites that got me started on this fascinating aspect of diesel operation. :D

More of this tomorrow, hopefully.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

What about adding a dollop of methanol, or even ethylene glycol to the mix? It could be that the freezing of the water is what is triggering the separation of the kerosene and oil. Something that would act as an antifreeze to the water just might extend the temperature downwards enough for us to fly in sub freezing weather.

If it does not act as an antifreeze in the conventional sense, the hygroscopic nature of methanol might help it bond with the water molecules and again prevent the kero and oil components from separating. I'm just guessing, but it sounds worth a try. Methanol would be my first choice.

Ed Cregger

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Hi Ed,

Not sure what you mean by water in this context. Separation of kero from castor is a common problem once thought unsolvable until Klotz Castor came along. And even then, at low temps, the castor settles out. But in this case, no water involved.

Water is only an issue when making BioFuel or BioLube as water is introduced into the process. If that's what you mean, then your suggestion may have merit. But my take is that it would be better to get the water out in the first place. With Fuel, it just needs to be allowed to evaporate. With Lube it has to be forced out by heating.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

I'm getting the feeling that it is not the olive oil that runs better but that it is the castor that causes po0r running judging what I have read from both Reg and Andy's tests. Castor only seems to work with high ether. Could this be possible?

Reg, you have got to try your engine oil, olive oil,l to castor comparison again as it seemed to show that castor didn't run well with low ether.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Treven,

Your premise could be tested by running two mixes exactly the same except for one having castor and the other OliveLube. One could play with all the percentages, ether, oil ignition improver etc. That's an interesting proposition. On the burner if the weather holds. Thanks for the suggestion.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

I've run castor kerosene in four strokes and there were no issues. I always started on regular fuel. Once warm it idles just like glow and transtitions well.

Andy I think there are many technical problems with the things you mention. Some acheivable, some not.

Is your variable compression device based on the CVEC muffler concept?

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Greg,

No doubt four strokes are a different animal. But how about this. Send me a PM and I'll fire off some OliveLube for you to try.

There are NO technical problems that cannot be overcome with persistence and some imagination, I think. [>:] Like putting a man on the moon. [X(] And it doesn't hurt to have help from the good folks on this forum. :D

I'm somewhat familiar with the CVEC concept but for the moment, I don't see how it relates. I believe that it was some kind of effective muffling using a spring loaded baffle. Will look it up.

But something new has surfaced. Last night I came across a test for determining if you had a good BioFuel. You add oil to methanol in a one to ten ratio and if all the oil dissolves, you're good to go. If there's any settling at all, you need to reprocess the fuel. Well I did the test to the three BioFuels that I ran yesterday. The better running CORN Fuel was the worst one of the three, the poorer running canola/soy tested best and the middler, the sunflower, tested in the middle. Well, what the,,,, Don't know what to make of that except that the poorer running better testing fuel, the canola/soy, was done with a slightly altered process. That process initially looked bad but in the end, produced a very clear fuel, eventually. So I'm going to repeat that process with the corn and the sunflower oil to see what that gives us. Plus, after reading that Otto Diesel had originally designed hos engine to run on peanut oil, well that's also being brewed right now.

Pouring rain right now, time for more shop work.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Oh dear my head hurts !

Why modified olive oil ? Well why not ? There are always more ways than one to skin a cat (no animals were hurt in the making of this respnse ! )

From the testing I have done so far.

Castor needs a high ether content, I have found the hard way, that 25% castor content needs 15% ether content as a minimum. Below that ratio then the castor starts dropping out and forming a deposit. Unless you are prepared to use a goodly amount of ether then castor oil is a problem.

Modified olive oil combined with 10 % ether gives remarkably good and easy starting and also runs well. I find that this mix will idle and throttle O.K once the correct settings are found.

I found that 10% ether and new (not used) car engine oil rsn well in one engine but was not as good in another... however this was a limited test and I need to repeat it to be more conclusive. This mix would idle and throttle O.K when the correct settings were found.

The bulk of my testing was initially done on a "sacrificial "(read spare and unused) engine without an RC carb. Once confidence was gained in the lubrication I moved onto an engine with RC carb.

I know that olive oil and kerosene will run OK but need special starting technique. I don't yet know how that mix will work with an RC throttle.

I know that car engine oil (this brand anyway) with kerosene, once started will run well. I don't know how it will work with an RC carb.

I know that including upto 2.5 % ignition improver is beneficial in all low ether and non-ether fuel mixes.

I found that when using a non-ether mix made up with car engine oil and paraffin plus ignition improver the engine, including the crankcase ran much hotter than usual. i also noted that the exhaust seemed to be "drier" than usual. Despite fiddling with the needle I didn't note much change in the exhaust and it was of a blue'ish colour.

When using modified olive oil I find that there is a lot of oil thrown out with the exhaust, this could well contribute to keeping the engine cooler.

I need to do some more direct comparisons between fuel mixes with modded olive oil as against car engine oil. At the moment I just have a feeling that the car engine oil based fuels are running hotter. TYreven might not be experiencing this as he is using pump diesel instead of kerosene, I reckon the kerosene will burn hotter.

Fuel mixes with both modded olive oil and also those with car engine oil can both result in the compression being backed off more than with conventional high ether fuels. I think contributing factors to this are... increased kerosene content, which leads to hotter combustion, which then leads to lower compression being required. Also the inclusion of ignition improver can make a big difference to compression settings.

I need to do some direct comparisons, over a few engine runs of modded olive oil as opposed to car engine oil.

It may well turn out that ... for good idle and throttling we need some ether content, however tests up to date show that this is probably going to be far less than the amounts normally regarded as necessary...... thus the fuel is cheaper. If we need 10% ether then the gallon of high ether fuel you buy can be diluted to give 3 gallons. Sensible handling will prevent unecessary ether loss.

I do know for a fact that I can run a model diesel engine without an RC carb quite satisfactorily on a non-ether fuel. That means that my non-throttling diesel power pods can be used very cheaply !

Andy is pushing the boundaries with bio fuels and some "exotic" materials. Stewart is happily using modded olive oil and 20% ether, Treven is happily flying his black mix.

I have happily flown a 15% ether - 25% castor mix and that works well. The weather has thwarted flying tests this week.

I am trying to limit my testing to modded olive oil in comparison to car engine oil as lubricant. I want to do some more extensive testing with these two to see if there really is a reason to use one in preference to the other. There will be ignition improver in the mixes as this has proved itself - so far. The only other thing I will alter is the % of ether so I can compare low ether mix with totally non-ether. Trouble is it can take a while... you need a decently long engine run to establish settings and stability. The engine then needs to cool down so that the next test starts from a level playing field.... but it is fun !

Reg

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Hello Andy and Reg,

Congratulations on your BioOil discoveries!

May I make a few suggestions that my help?

Foaming:

Perhaps using Laundry (clothes) Washing Detergent or Automatic Dishwasher Detergent (for the machine under your counter) will mitigate the foaming.

Liquid (Joy type) Dish Washing Detergents are specifically blended to produced prodigious amounts of foam. Detergent manufacturers blend this specifically to satisfy the desire of the consumer. It is often used by the consumer to ascertain the amount of detergent added to the sink water. It is completely unnecessary in particle use.

Laundry detergent and automatic dishwasher detergents do not contain these foaming additive for obvious reasons. They are blended from the same base stock of detergents.

Some Liquid Automatic dishwasher detergents have a wetting agents contained within the mixture. This maybe helpful and they will not cause foam if mixed into the detergent from the manufacture.

I would not add the concentrated wetting agent that goes into the separate dispenser in the door, this will cause a huge amount of foam.

You may find switching to either liquid Automatic Dish Washer Detergent or liquid Laundry Detergent may solve the foaming problem and have other benefits that are unknown . They are often found unscented too.

I would also suggest that you mix the glycerin, water, and detergent together in a separate container first, and then add it to your warm oil.

Pressure Cooker:

If you place your mixture listed above into a home style Pressure Cooker at 30 psi, you will subject the mixture to temperatures in excess of 250 F plus one more atmosphere of pressure. This may have the effect of cracking and re-bonding of your oil mixture thus producing a product with an increase viscosity. You could use Corn oil or Canola oil for the base stock oil, thus you could reduce the cost of your BioOil considerable. I would suggest a minimium time of 20 minutes at 30 psi or high pressure on most common wobble type relief valves on home pressure cookers.

This process may also affect the “Running” characteristics of the oil, since it will change some aspect of the molecular structure. Perhaps you will need less of these oils in your mixtures.

I find it very interesting that the BioOlive oil help starting. Excellent work!

Kelly

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Thanks for the offer Andy. I don't have time for engines right now. When I do I'll make up a batch. I imagine the contra you mentioned as a self adjusting unit depending on spring pressure acting against chamber pressure to vary the combustion chamber volume. CVEC's muffler works on the same principle.

The used engine oil might have less active additive package and maybe doesn't have the problems some mentioned with new oil.

The veggie lube is intriguing but I want to know what the properties of the resulting lube are. When I look at existing oils a quick look at the spec sheet tell me what I want to know.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Kelly ,
not sure I'ed like to be around a pressure cooker with 1litre of oil heated to 250degF and under pressure, conjures images of a bomb to me. But maybe someones game.
Stewart