Where have all the deltas gone?
12-04-2011, 03:37 PM
#26
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Middleboro, MA
Posts: 3,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
That's a good looking model...!
I've built a few in that size range for .049-.061 and they are great fun.
I crammed a OS CVA .15 into one with 22 inches of span [that was originally powered by a COX .049] and it flies just fine, even though at first glance it looks like too small of a plane.
That's a good looking model...!
I've built a few in that size range for .049-.061 and they are great fun.
I crammed a OS CVA .15 into one with 22 inches of span [that was originally powered by a COX .049] and it flies just fine, even though at first glance it looks like too small of a plane.
12-04-2011, 03:44 PM
#27
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
APC makes a prop that the CVA .15 really likes....6.5x6 or 6.5x5.5...something in that range.
The best it ever did on that plane was 133 mph, which has to be the most down and dirty way to get a CVA .15 up to 133...?
I never did bother to make that thing look pretty...I didn't think it would survive the maiden, but it's still alive and ready for more abuse.
Balsa wood, kite tube spars, glass cloth and a little glue is amazing stuff
The best it ever did on that plane was 133 mph, which has to be the most down and dirty way to get a CVA .15 up to 133...?
I never did bother to make that thing look pretty...I didn't think it would survive the maiden, but it's still alive and ready for more abuse.
Balsa wood, kite tube spars, glass cloth and a little glue is amazing stuff
12-04-2011, 05:41 PM
#30
My Feedback: (202)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Bryan,
OH
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
PICTURE ON RIGHT: I have built the Balsacraft "Rapier" with a Nelson Q40 that was a bit on the big side for a .40 size delta but the speed was impressive coming out of the split-S. Shown here in yellow. I have two kits still on my shelf.
PICTURE ON LEFT: Mike's R/C "Screamin Demon" is light and IMHO a better platform than the DD ever was. Shown here in flourescent orange and black/white checkers. Again my engine of choice the Nelson Q40. Documented 187 in SLF. Many can "claim" speeds of over 200 MPH but having proof is another milestone for anything above 180 in SLF as Combatpigg will acknowledge. This model weighed in a 2.9 pounds RTF and was awesome!
PICTURE IN MIDDLE: I love the "Shrike". Not a delta but one of the very best handling models in this arena for 150+ MPH thrills. Shown here in red/white/black with another great powerplant. The K/B 7.5cc RE DF. I have 4 unopened Shrikes on the shelf. One is going on the building board this winter. It will be a full mod build with thinner airfoil and a few other "tricks" to make it lighter and cleaner aerodynamically.
PICTURE ON LEFT: Mike's R/C "Screamin Demon" is light and IMHO a better platform than the DD ever was. Shown here in flourescent orange and black/white checkers. Again my engine of choice the Nelson Q40. Documented 187 in SLF. Many can "claim" speeds of over 200 MPH but having proof is another milestone for anything above 180 in SLF as Combatpigg will acknowledge. This model weighed in a 2.9 pounds RTF and was awesome!
PICTURE IN MIDDLE: I love the "Shrike". Not a delta but one of the very best handling models in this arena for 150+ MPH thrills. Shown here in red/white/black with another great powerplant. The K/B 7.5cc RE DF. I have 4 unopened Shrikes on the shelf. One is going on the building board this winter. It will be a full mod build with thinner airfoil and a few other "tricks" to make it lighter and cleaner aerodynamically.
12-04-2011, 09:20 PM
#33
My Feedback: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: tacoma, WA
Posts: 1,490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
Here are my current Shrikes, both I kit-built. They fly as well as expected, and are surprisingly easy to launch and land. The other pic is my EuroMach. 19lb. turbine powered. I built this all-wood kit in about two weeks and flew it shortly after. It flew OK after some tweaking, but didn't slow down worth a damn. A real floater. I sure hope the Outlaw isn't gone for good, as I was about to order another. My first was in the Navy colors, but was kinda hard to see at times. Think I'll go for the red and white this time. My first one died when an elevon servo packed up. I've had 2 or 3 Laser Arrows. Not super-fast, but cheap and fun. Used piped .32's on all.
12-04-2011, 09:33 PM
#34
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Middleboro, MA
Posts: 3,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
ORIGINAL: Speedy-Gonzales
PICTURE ON RIGHT: I have built the Balsacraft ''Rapier'' with a Nelson Q40 that was a bit on the big side for a .40 size delta but the speed was impressive coming out of the split-S. Shown here in yellow. I have two kits still on my shelf.
PICTURE ON LEFT: Mike's R/C ''Screamin Demon'' is light and IMHO a better platform than the DD ever was. Shown here in flourescent orange and black/white checkers. Again my engine of choice the Nelson Q40. Documented 187 in SLF. Many can ''claim'' speeds of over 200 MPH but having proof is another milestone for anything above 180 in SLF as Combatpig will acknowledge. This model weighed in a 2.9 pounds RTF and was awesome!
PICTURE IN MIDDLE: I love the ''Shrike''. Not a delta but one of the very best hendling models in this arena for 150+ MPH thrills. Shown here in red/white/black with another great powerplant. The K/B 7.5cc RE DF. I have 4 unopened Shrikes on the shelf. One is going on the building board this winter. It will be a full mod build with thinner airfoil and a few other ''tricks'' to make it lighter and cleaner aerodynamically.
PICTURE ON RIGHT: I have built the Balsacraft ''Rapier'' with a Nelson Q40 that was a bit on the big side for a .40 size delta but the speed was impressive coming out of the split-S. Shown here in yellow. I have two kits still on my shelf.
PICTURE ON LEFT: Mike's R/C ''Screamin Demon'' is light and IMHO a better platform than the DD ever was. Shown here in flourescent orange and black/white checkers. Again my engine of choice the Nelson Q40. Documented 187 in SLF. Many can ''claim'' speeds of over 200 MPH but having proof is another milestone for anything above 180 in SLF as Combatpig will acknowledge. This model weighed in a 2.9 pounds RTF and was awesome!
PICTURE IN MIDDLE: I love the ''Shrike''. Not a delta but one of the very best hendling models in this arena for 150+ MPH thrills. Shown here in red/white/black with another great powerplant. The K/B 7.5cc RE DF. I have 4 unopened Shrikes on the shelf. One is going on the building board this winter. It will be a full mod build with thinner airfoil and a few other ''tricks'' to make it lighter and cleaner aerodynamically.
I used you idea on catapults to build one for my PQ Stingray, my version of one of Mike Connors planes.
A hybrid Delta/Flying wing.
12-05-2011, 07:42 AM
#36
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Cadillac,
MI
Posts: 3,225
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
rcguy59:
I can only provide you with what the CG's are on my Arrow and Outlaw, and there's quite a bit of difference.
The drawing shows how it's done for the Arrow: root chord is measured on the centerline; MAC is plotted on the wing and the CG extended out to where they intersect; the distance from the LE to the intersection is the actual CG location; CG distance from LE divided by MAC is the percentage.
Arrow: 9%
Outlaw: 15%
I think angle of sweep on the LE has a lot to do with this. The Arrow is 40 degrees, the Outlaw 50. The greater the sweep angle (assuming the tip chord doesn't get too small) the greater the wing area aft, which is what determines pitch stability on a delta.
Hope this helps. I had fun doing it.
I can only provide you with what the CG's are on my Arrow and Outlaw, and there's quite a bit of difference.
The drawing shows how it's done for the Arrow: root chord is measured on the centerline; MAC is plotted on the wing and the CG extended out to where they intersect; the distance from the LE to the intersection is the actual CG location; CG distance from LE divided by MAC is the percentage.
Arrow: 9%
Outlaw: 15%
I think angle of sweep on the LE has a lot to do with this. The Arrow is 40 degrees, the Outlaw 50. The greater the sweep angle (assuming the tip chord doesn't get too small) the greater the wing area aft, which is what determines pitch stability on a delta.
Hope this helps. I had fun doing it.
12-05-2011, 07:57 AM
#37
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Cadillac,
MI
Posts: 3,225
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
As long as we're including Shrikes, here's mine with my Outlaw.
This is my FIFTH Shrike, built from the plans and a set of rib templates that a fellow RCUer was kind enough to provide. Previous were a kit 40; kit 10 (Norvel .061); ARF 40; kit 10 (Astro 020). This ones a keeper. The trick appears to be keep them as light as possible by moving everything aft and using the lightest possible powerplant, and balance right on the recommended CG.
I used 3/8 CF tubes for spars on this one, as square holes are hard to drill in the ribs. I've mixed a touch (less than 1/8") of up elevator trim with the flap switch on my Tx, so she establishes a nice nose up angle on launch. Stock OS46AX on the factory muffler. Turns a 10x6 APC about 14,500. Only about 80mph, but that's way fast enough for me. I tend to prop my deltas for thrust rather than speed. Thrust is what gets me out of trouble when I get into it.
rcguy59: the Outlaw is currently available in the Navy scheme like this, the others are sold out. I'm sure they've got another order in for more, but it could be awhile. (I think the last time was about 6 months.)
My outlaw is converted to E power, using a Rimfire 25 and a 4S 3300 pack. Took a couple days to build the nacelle/cowl onto the nose to hide the motor and protect it from dirt. (Sand in an outrunner = instant lockup. Only compressed air seems to clean it all out.)
This is my FIFTH Shrike, built from the plans and a set of rib templates that a fellow RCUer was kind enough to provide. Previous were a kit 40; kit 10 (Norvel .061); ARF 40; kit 10 (Astro 020). This ones a keeper. The trick appears to be keep them as light as possible by moving everything aft and using the lightest possible powerplant, and balance right on the recommended CG.
I used 3/8 CF tubes for spars on this one, as square holes are hard to drill in the ribs.
I've mixed a touch (less than 1/8") of up elevator trim with the flap switch on my Tx, so she establishes a nice nose up angle on launch. Stock OS46AX on the factory muffler. Turns a 10x6 APC about 14,500. Only about 80mph, but that's way fast enough for me. I tend to prop my deltas for thrust rather than speed. Thrust is what gets me out of trouble when I get into it. rcguy59: the Outlaw is currently available in the Navy scheme like this, the others are sold out. I'm sure they've got another order in for more, but it could be awhile. (I think the last time was about 6 months.)
My outlaw is converted to E power, using a Rimfire 25 and a 4S 3300 pack. Took a couple days to build the nacelle/cowl onto the nose to hide the motor and protect it from dirt. (Sand in an outrunner = instant lockup. Only compressed air seems to clean it all out.)
12-05-2011, 11:25 AM
#38
My Feedback: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: tacoma, WA
Posts: 1,490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
Here's one I'd forgotten about. This is a composite Shrike 10. I got it in a trade about 3 years ago and its been waiting ever since. It weighs 21 oz. as is, so I'm thinking .32-.36, piped of course. I built a Shrike 10 from a kit several years ago with a shortened nose, 3/4" dowel spar and .32 engine. I used to fly it just to scare the old guys. 
I don't know who made the mold for this thing but the buddy I got it from might. He said this is one of just a few before they lost interest or something. One of these days I'll get it going. It's unique!
I don't know who made the mold for this thing but the buddy I got it from might. He said this is one of just a few before they lost interest or something. One of these days I'll get it going. It's unique!
12-05-2011, 01:35 PM
#39
My Feedback: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: tacoma, WA
Posts: 1,490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
Thanks, Mustang. I've had both and they each flew well in their own way, though the Outlaw is by far my favorite. I'm looking to do a sort of Outlaw clone for a Norvel .074 and I'd also like to scale one up for a .77 DF engine and pipe I have. I appreciate the info.
12-05-2011, 03:06 PM
#40
My Feedback: (202)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Bryan,
OH
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
Speedy, hard to improve on the looks of that Rapier..!
That model should have sold very well if they did a better job of getting the word out. Advertising cost is a big gamble, though.
Speedy, hard to improve on the looks of that Rapier..!
That model should have sold very well if they did a better job of getting the word out. Advertising cost is a big gamble, though.
I actually took 2nd place in static judging at the TOLEDO R/C Expo a couple years ago with the "Rapier" in Sport Plane. This plane would be awesome with a JETT 60LX rear exhaust. The bigger prop would help with the initial launch and getting it out of the hole better. Takes a hard throw to get a 4+ pound model on it's way with only a 7" diameter prop! Once it was on it's way for the first 100' it was like someone shot it out of a cannon. After the first turn out to the left it was haulin the mail!!
The Screamin' Demon is still the hottest delta I have ever flown.
BTW...I would be interested if anyone had a JETT 60 LX RE they wanted to get rid of.
Here is a picture of the business end of the K/B powered Shrike and the Q40 Screamin Demon.
SPEEDY
12-05-2011, 04:59 PM
#42
My Feedback: (202)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Bryan,
OH
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
I have found that with deltas you have to pay very close attention to the CG especially if you are shooting for speed. Nose heavy and they are a bear to turn. Tail heavy and you will be scraping out your pants and yanking back on that throttle in a BIG hurry. Most of my deltas have been quite long lived but 90% of my losses have been due to servo failure and ultra-high harmonics from engine vibrations. NEVER skimp on servos thinking you can fly above 150 mph using standard servos. The forces on the control surfaces are astronomical.
"throttle"......that is that dusty stick on the left side of your transmitter!
"throttle"......that is that dusty stick on the left side of your transmitter!
12-05-2011, 05:26 PM
#44
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
I use throttle control:
[ul][*] so I can slow it down to trim it in [*] fly a holding pattern till the runway is clear[*] pass the TX off to a flyingbuddy[*] and yes I AM GETTING OLD!
[/ul]
At the club they fly everthing... Jets to Trainers .... Scale to 3D
[ul][*] so I can slow it down to trim it in [*] fly a holding pattern till the runway is clear[*] pass the TX off to a flyingbuddy[*] and yes I AM GETTING OLD!
[/ul]
At the club they fly everthing... Jets to Trainers .... Scale to 3D
12-05-2011, 05:50 PM
#47
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
RCGUY
I have it there for safety too, I dont race pylon, never have. The throttle keeps me in a comfort zone.
So I am willing to give up 500 RPM on my Jett 50.
I also have "quiet" pipes, most clubs have db limits and a rat pipe offers more RPM and even more NOISE.
Have flown twice this year my hands so numb from carpel tunnel did not have the "feel".
Surgery had me on the disabled list for the last 5 weeks.
Maybe I will be able to finish the Double D's aand fly next year.
bob
I have it there for safety too, I dont race pylon, never have. The throttle keeps me in a comfort zone.
So I am willing to give up 500 RPM on my Jett 50.
I also have "quiet" pipes, most clubs have db limits and a rat pipe offers more RPM and even more NOISE.
Have flown twice this year my hands so numb from carpel tunnel did not have the "feel".
Surgery had me on the disabled list for the last 5 weeks.
Maybe I will be able to finish the Double D's aand fly next year.
bob
12-05-2011, 06:05 PM
#48
My Feedback: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: tacoma, WA
Posts: 1,490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
All joking aside, I have throttles on everything larger than .074. I wire the carb open on some of my Norvels just to save the weight and bulk of a throttle servo and linkage. I've passed up good deals on Nelson Q-40 motors simply due to their "all-or-nothing" nature. If I had my own private 1000 acre field, I might feel differently. Alas, I do not.
12-05-2011, 06:07 PM
#49
My Feedback: (202)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Bryan,
OH
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
I like "Double D's" but I don't think they are the ones you guys are referring to! 
A throttle has saved my ***** many times!
I agree with Crazy4 in his statement about having a throttle for flight trimming.
It's nice to have time to look down at your Tx and not have to look back up to find that your delta is nowhere to be found.
A Spotter is a must for speed deltas.
The Nelson Q40 will throttle nicely with a Perry/Conley 5001 carb without any hesitation.
A throttle has saved my ***** many times!
I agree with Crazy4 in his statement about having a throttle for flight trimming.
It's nice to have time to look down at your Tx and not have to look back up to find that your delta is nowhere to be found.
A Spotter is a must for speed deltas.
The Nelson Q40 will throttle nicely with a Perry/Conley 5001 carb without any hesitation.
12-05-2011, 06:12 PM
#50
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wellsville,
NY
Posts: 914
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Where have all the deltas gone?
I still have my Whiplash...well...sort of 
Still breaks my heart looking at it.. but couldn't toss it either. Battery failed mid-flight
Still breaks my heart looking at it.. but couldn't toss it either. Battery failed mid-flight
