MikeMc

This isn't meant to be disrepectful. I read this forum even though I'm not activly into speed planes. It is very intriguing though. What I've notinced is the talk is always about the same planes. It happens but it's very rare to see different designs, scratch build planes, or even differerent engine sizes. I don't think I actually have a question but it's more of an observation. Occasionally there is different stuff but it's very rare. I've built a lot of experimental models... some that flew good and some that didn't. It seems like this crowd would be more of the type that would be into experimenting rather than following a formula. I just noticed in the last few days some Mustang talk that I hadn't seen before so that's good.

Edit: spelling

ChuckAuger

My Feedback: (12)

Heh, I run engines of a different brand and size from just about everybody. I ran them up to now on a commercially available plane to get some test runs, but they will be going into an experimental plane shortly, scratch built and different from anything anybody else has.

Rudeboy

How many people scratch build their aerobats? How many people scratch build their jets?
This branch of the hobby is no different than the rest... the vast majority of people fly commercial stuff.
Add to that the fact that the demands on an "extreme speed plane" are (or at least should be) a little higher than on say a .40 size stick built profile EDGE 540 and there you have it...

And just like in other branches of the hobby, people that want or need something out of the ordinary will build it... the rest will follow the hurde...

Now the engine thing... there aren't too many powerful engines around... and there are even less people qualified and equipped to make or mod their own.
The speed market is a niche market, you can't expect manufacturers to put out heaps of speed engines.
So people run the stuff that is there.

MikeMc

MikeMc

Let me go a little deeper as to why I said what I did to address this question. The speed freaks (I say that in a good way) seem to be people that push the limits with equipment rather than flying skill, and that's not to say you are poor pilots. What I'm thinking is if you going to go fast you need to keep doing things different rather than just buying the same kit or plan as the next guy and putting in the formula, but instead pushing the limits on an individual basis. Kinda like what you see at the top end at land speed events.

I view this group as very dedicated and skilled and I'm just trying to get a feel of people's ideas and/or comments on this as why it doesn't happen more often. If it turns out most are happy to go fast without need to be the absolute fastest then that's cool.

I don't know the engines as well as the planes so I might be a little off on my observation on those.

Edit: sorry for the double post. Don't know what I did.

ChuckAuger

My Feedback: (12)

Shoot, I don't know. I think it might be a little harder than you think to keep up with a fairly fast plane, but I don't claim to be a great pilot. I like flying fast planes, that's all. I also like flying 0 airspeed planes. Pylon racers are some of the fastest guys around, and they fly very similar planes and engines. Go ask them why they like what they do.

Most planes the guys here fly might not be the fastest in this forum, but are probably faster than wht is found at their home field. Trying to compare everybody who posts in this forum against each other as opposed to aginst the general RC flying public, and I think you find the results of your assumptions to be a bit different.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

I have flown at a few fields across the country, and some of the pylon planes that I fly garner quite a bit of attention. I love the speed, and have become numb to it, but it amazes me the interest by people that have never seen a plane fly across the field at 10 ft going 170 mph.

Many claims are made about planes that go this fast, or much faster, but other than the racers I fly, and a whiplash that I flew for nearly a minute, I haven't seen it.

High speed takes as much skill as torque rolling down on the deck, or low altitude 3d aerobatics. I have found that flying fast, has helped my reaction speed in nearly all aspects of RC flight.

I like the exhileration of flying this fast, in close proximation to 2-3 other planes going the same speed. You would be amazed at the amount of BAD air given off when following another plane. I know, I should learn to be the plane out front This bad air is a bear to fly through, it causes a loss of control, and quite often forces your plane to react violently in the air.

There is a reason the pylon planes are fast, that is what they were designed to do and they are faster than 90+% of what is out there. However, they are designed with very strick limitations in terms of Wing thickness, Fuse width, Weight, ect....... Someone could take a current design and easily shrink the thickness of the wing or fuze, cowl the engine, and do all sorts of things to speed it up.

Crazy4Flight

My Feedback: (540)

Flying at 150MPH and up is one thing.
To design, engineer, build a new design is another.
OOPS forgot to mention TEST FLY the prototype(s) and Beta model Who would make the molds to make a single whiplash? just not practical.
Proformance engines is a nitch market, Even OS has stopped production on some D/F engines

Look at what is being flown at your club and count the number of: ARFs, Kits, Plans built, pilot design & build planes.

I am a Speed Freak who would rather fly a Whiplash or Magnum FAST, NOW, than to try my hand at design and Error.

As for my turbines I fly...the Kangaroo I would call an ARF and The Topcat was bought used, but it was a kit ( which the owner paid to have it built).

Zeroman

The Diamond Dust does seem to be the most talked about speed plane.I can see why though, its cheap, relatively easy to fly and is very quick.If you search around you will find quite a few designs.I have purchased a new plane that i hope to report on in the near future, it called a Stinger 21.I will be putting an OS 32 SX in it, should put along just fine.Regards Chris.

thunderjet

My Feedback: (1)

Where can I get one of these Stinger 21s.? I need one...
Thunderjet

Evil Homer

That is a real nice plane, like thunderjet said where can i get one!!!!

bob27s

My Feedback: (19)

Ive got a screaming Jett BSE35 just waiting to go into something like that

der_steuermann

My Feedback: (2)

Here are some speed thoughts based on reading this forum as well as on own experience:

Category 1:
I guess 99% of the "speed freaks" posting here at this forum are very satisfied with stock equipment. That applies both to framework and powerplant. They know what they'll get for their money using approved combos being bulletproof. Obviously the speeds gained with those "regular" setups meet the expectations of the "crowd" and the niche market works fine. In other words: Have fun!


Category 2:
There are only few guys here doing a different attempt. They use the stock airframe, maybe slightly modified, and implement a much more powerful engine than recommended by the manufacturer. The result sometimes may be the destruction of the plane due to structural failure while doing a high speed maneuver. If the (possibly beefed up) plane can cope with the additional loads the results of speed measurement show: The terminal reached speeds exceed speeds of Category 1 BUT are mostly lower than estimated. Problem #1: enemy drag


Category 3: [sm=punching.gif]
I might be wrong but I did not find a thread in this forum dealing with a scratch built plane that really deserves the attribute "extreme". Fundamentals should be: The fully cowled engine/pipe unit. Highly reinforced full-composite-frame featuring still acceptable weight. Super slim fuse (widest part of the fuselage is the RIRE or FIRE motor, you might even consider to remove the engine mounts of the latter). Smooth transitions between fuse and the rest. Maximum thinned out speed airfoils both for wing and control surfaces (but never use flat sheets). Optimized wing tips. Fully covered hinge gaps on both sides or OGs. All linkages within the fuse, one aileron is enough (better no aileron at all, but V-mixed elevator). Of course no rudder. Custom made brass tank copying the contour of the fuselage. The engine should have no throttle. Very important is the fuel shut-off device. Only non-muffled dual cone tuned pipe. Even a moderate engine should bring this baby to speeds equaling or topping Category 2 - combos.


Category 4:
The final stage: Take the aerodynamically highly optimized airframe of Category 3 and upgrade it with a modded high performance engine. Maybe a kind of "Frankenstein" composed of parts of different engines or even prepped with own custom parts to boost the output. For maximum performance the tuned pipe should be adjusted such that the engine does NOT kick into resonance prior to the first dive. To transfer the tremendous power into SAFE speed a custom made CF-propeller has to be used which accurately has been designed to that specific airframe/engine combo and target speed (trial & error method). The prop tip speed should not go supersonic due to severe loss of efficiency. A combo like that exclusively designed for best straight in line speed (therefore no F3D pylon construction) hit speed numbers I've not seen in this forum so far.

Rudeboy

And how many of those have you built?

Zeroman

The Stinger 21 and the entire line of speed planes, comes from the Netherlands. The company is called Speed Models.The Hobby Barn carries the full line.Very nice planes.Check them out.There is a 40 size also.There all designed to run with a tune pipe if you wish.You will see him post on RC universe from time to time, his name is Look.Looking forward to burning a hole in the sky.Later Chris.

MikeMc

Thanks for all the feedback gentlemen.

Razor-RCU

My Feedback: (50)

I have read "Looks" posts- I think the Rossi-21 was the hot item for the Stinger (?)

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Here is something a little bit different. It is my own design, but with lots of help from the guys in the CL SPEED forum at DELPHI FORUMS. It is powered by a CS .061 and a full length pipe. I bought the engine from BILL HUGHES, he ran it one time in GERMANY at a FAI speed contest and it did about 150 hooked up to control line cable. The engine is set up to run 65% right now, but I am prepared to go as high as 80% if I feel that 200mph is within reach. The launch rpm with a 4.5 pitch prop will be at a four cycling 32,000 with a anticipated unloading into the 40,000 plus range on the first down wind pass. I have a selection of carbon props in 1/4" increments on up to a 5 pitch. The other part of the strategy will be to cut the wing down gradually until I reach poor flyability. As far as I am concerned the line has to be drawn somewhere between what is a model plane and model rocketry, I guess the determining factor is being able to land it in one piece. The plane will end up weighing about a pound after I K&B epoxy paint it, as far as I know this is the only paint that will hold up to pure nitro. Too bad there isn't some kind of pigment powder that you can add to finishing resin because the price of the K&B paint is ridiculous!

der_steuermann

My Feedback: (2)

Rudeboy,

it took me several years, many evolution stages and lots of cash to obtain good speed numbers.

combatpigg is on the right track. You don't need a large engine to exceed 200 mph just a clean airframe.

BTW: The F2A control line speed guys extremely suffer from the control line itself which generates almost 80% of the entire drag. So we R/C-fellows have to admit that the current F2A world record of 208 mph is quite IMPRESSIVE!

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Combat Pigg,

check out www.klasskote.com this epoxy paint is nearly identical to the former K&B HobbyPoxy and is quite reasonable. Works great.

Zeroman

Combatpigg, great start.If this plane is going to be flying in the 100mph plus range, do you really trust Hs 55's to control your plane.I run 81's in all my 1/2A stuff.They are not the best servos quality wise but i trust them more than the 55's,specially in your application.What are your thoughts?.Chris.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks DAVEN! I will look into that paint.
Hi ZEROMAN! The HS55s look pretty scary in there, but there was barely enough room to get them in. The deflections are going to be real small, so the inflight loads should not be a problem. Vibration will be my biggest concern. I found a very out of the way area to fly this thing, so if I have a failure, there won't be anything to hit but Mother Earth. I would have liked to have inflight mixture control, but would need a bigger plane to make that happen also. I have taken the HS55s through some pretty extreme .061 powered 3D stuff for what amounts to hours of flight, and so far I have only failed one servo becuse I was over driving a throttle stop.

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

CP: your aircraft looks totally amazing. I wish you good luck reaching your goal!

As for the HS55, maybe you could double them up ala the giant scale boys?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

HI KMOT! That's a good idea! There is room to do it. Which control surface do you double up? There isn't room to do both. I would have liked to dedicate a seperate servo to each aileron, there is room to do that. On the other hand, I could tape off one of the ailerons and just fly with one, I have seen 1/2A pylon plans call for that. I toyed with the idea of no ailerons and going with tailerons, but I chickened out because of having no experience with that control sceme. Right now this project is on hold till the KLOTZ oil shows up, and the K&B paint. If the HS55s hold up, maybe HITEK gets some good free advertising?

ChuckAuger

My Feedback: (12)

Here are my thoughts:

I like modifying engines.

I have a pretty good inventory of Rossi engines, RIRE, of different displacements..

They can be had for bargain prices now days.

I have to test them on something, so I choose commercial airframes for convienience.

Now that my engines are putting out power that exceeds both prop and airframes that are commercially available, I will continue my test by producing my own modified props and my own airframes.

I have no idea as to speed, ask 20 different people how to measure it and you will get 21 different answers, each challenging the other.

I can measure engine performance, and try to optimize my airframes to complement my engines.

Whether or not this fits into any of your categories, or if it is faster than anybody else, I have no way of knowing.

I do it because it is what I like to do. I could have been a painter and not known how my paintings rated against those of other artists. I could buy off the shelf engines. I do what I do because it is a hobby of mine. If I measure up to others, while interesting, is not what drives me. The whole concept is too subjective to be catetgorized, I do it because I like to.