New ARC speed plane!! WOW
05-19-2004, 04:14 PM
#1
New ARC speed plane!! WOW
Ok guys, I ordered a "Rifle" from Angel (AngelRCdesign) and it arrived today. I am very impressed with the quality, and some of the extra stuff Angel provided. Heck, he even provided a couple of pages of instructions that anyone could understand....if ya know what I mean! (Just teasing you Angel) 
All his personal info is included, should anybody have any questions.
I had him build it a little less complete, as I wanted to cover it, before hingeing it. This is going to be a piece of cake getting in the air, especially if you compare it to the ol' DC F-20.
Leading edges tapered, and other surfaces will need just a light going over with 220.
I haven't decided what motor to use yet, so suggestions are welcome! (my Jett 50 is going in my Force One...I think) [X(]
Damn, and I am in the middle of putting together another plane, so this one will have to wait awhile.
A job WELL DONE Angel! Thanks!
Gary
A few pics for ya:
All his personal info is included, should anybody have any questions.I had him build it a little less complete, as I wanted to cover it, before hingeing it. This is going to be a piece of cake getting in the air, especially if you compare it to the ol' DC F-20.
Leading edges tapered, and other surfaces will need just a light going over with 220.
I haven't decided what motor to use yet, so suggestions are welcome! (my Jett 50 is going in my Force One...I think) [X(]
Damn, and I am in the middle of putting together another plane, so this one will have to wait awhile.
A job WELL DONE Angel! Thanks!
Gary
A few pics for ya:
05-20-2004, 07:11 PM
#7
RE: New ARC speed plane!! WOW
Bob,
Are you familiar with the numbers for the West 50 V1? Impressive to say the least, and they run like a Swiss watch.
Before the demise of the one I had, I was swinging an APC 9x7 @ about 19,000 prm's running Powermaster 15% w/ oil bumped to 20%. Never got the chance to tune it for an 8x8.
http://www.modellbau-usa.com/engines.htm
I really want to buy another Jett (for maximum speed on this plane), but I don't think Dubb has anything that's comparable with side exhaust. Or does he?
2.8 BHP @ 21,300 are the numbers they show.
Thanks for any info,
Gary
Are you familiar with the numbers for the West 50 V1? Impressive to say the least, and they run like a Swiss watch.
Before the demise of the one I had, I was swinging an APC 9x7 @ about 19,000 prm's running Powermaster 15% w/ oil bumped to 20%. Never got the chance to tune it for an 8x8.
http://www.modellbau-usa.com/engines.htm
I really want to buy another Jett (for maximum speed on this plane), but I don't think Dubb has anything that's comparable with side exhaust. Or does he?
2.8 BHP @ 21,300 are the numbers they show.
Thanks for any info,
Gary
05-21-2004, 09:19 AM
#9
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RE: New ARC speed plane!! WOW
AirGar,
The west 50 is an excellent engine. Definately runs well. I had the opportunity to fly one last summer. It was a good combination on the Mangmum...... light weight, small, low drag plane.
One thing Ive learned over a few years, is that published HP and RPM are poor references. Every manufacturer calculates/measures/estimates/guesses power differently. The only person I've ever know to actually build a good dyno, calibrate it, and independantly evaluate a significant number of engines on it..... was Greg Edmunds. Without going into detail, the HP numbers he obtained rarely matched published information. You may notice the Jett simply does not publish any HP information, and its for this very reason.... it would be meaningless compaired to other peoples numbers.
If you notice, its generating 2.8 hp at an RPM you will likely never see in operation unless you install a fairly small prop, you cut the pipe shorter to work at that RPM, and the engine has the chance to unload to that RPM. The West 50 comes with a full header and pipe, which provides the best performance, and from what I could see, the pipe was set up for peak performance in the 18,500 range.
The best way to evaluate power output, is common comparison with a common load. That is why Dub specifys a common APC prop and a performance RPM (minimum on test run for him to ship it). If you compair engines with a common prop, you will get a consistant comparison of engine power.
Jett offers the SJ-50 and BSE-50 engines. These are really hard to beat. The APC 9x7 is really too little prop for either engine. On the stock Jett-Stream muffler, my SJ-50 turns an APC 9x8 a bit over 17,800 rpm. My BSE-50 turns a tad higher, but its pretty much the same. Basically, they are running on the peak of the muffler curve with that prop. Need more prop with the stock muffler to keep the engine in the 17 - 17.5K range. The same SJ-50 with the SS muffler installed turns a 9x8 slightly over 18,000 on the ground. They unload a good deal in the air. You are familiar with the engines, so you know that they are extreamly user friendly. My 4 year old SJ-50 idles down below 2500 rpm
The tuned exhaust system is a significant factor. They can boost RPM, but they can also work as a governor limiting top RPM. At that point, you have to increase prop load to get back into that power band. Jett-stream mufflers are fairly broad band, which keeps the sport engines user friendly. Full size pipes are more critical with a narrow rpm band (peak), sometimes making it tricky to select the best prop and with setting the needle.
To push the SJ-50 side exhaust to max performance, you can install a full size tuned pipe. Dub can provide you with a pre-tuned system built to your requirements. That will add another 500-800 rpm, but you will be more restricted on prop selection to maintain the correct tuned rpm. It can also be tuned to stay at 17.5K rpm, and drive heavier pitch prop (APC 9x9 for example). It will perform just like the Jett FIRE 50 you read about on the Whiplash and Diamond Dust applications. If you wish to run a 9x7 and push it for max RPM, this is the way to do it, and it will exceed 19,000 at peak.
(what might be interesting, if anyone has an opportunity.... the West is basically a Webra 50 case.... muffler bolts should match the SJ-50 spacing in that case. Try installing the stock West 50 pipe on a Jett 46 or 50. It would be interesting to see the prop/rpm results)
If you want the best combination to go fast, without the big pipe hassles, order the SJ-50 (or BSE-50) with the Race muffler. The plane you showed looks fairly clean, and if it can move like a Q-500, this may be a good way to really push the envelope. This combo is tuned for higher rpm, and the combination is intended for use with AMA428 Q-500 props. Generally built for guys with Q-500 aircraft who just want to sport fly and go REAL fast. From the looks of that aircraft, it might work well in there. It will easily turn an APC 8.8x9 or 8.75x9 at 19,000 (About the same as the .40 racing engines, but with a reliable throttle, simple user-friendly operation, and excellent idle). Either of these props will pull about the same as a 9x7 on take off, but will unload and pull harder in the air. You can experiment with props, just ensure that each turns over 18,500-19,500 on the ground
Go to the jettengineering.com web site, and request the Hangar Sale list. There is an item on the last one you may be interested in
10. SPORT-JETT .50 WITH RACE MUFFLER 260. (REG 275) (SPEED DEMON FOR Q-500 PLANE)
(you have to order hangar sale stuff on the web site order form, and note its from the hangar sale)
I would not suggest using anything smaller than a 8.5 dia prop on any Jett 50, or on the West 50 for that matter. Most guys are running 9x8 or 9x9 on the SJ-50 and BSE-50. On these size aircraft, more prop running more efficiently at lower rpm will often give better over-all performance.
To directly answer your question, Jett's BSE-50 or SJ-50 is the best Dub has available. Their performance is about the same, so take your choice. The West 50 is no slug. But what I personally have seen, compairining apples to apples (prop, fuel, installation, exhaust system, durability, product support) the Jett engine is still hard to beat.
I'm sure others in the forum can give some performance figures for the jett 50 on various props.
I guess the bottom line all comes down to preference.
Bob
The west 50 is an excellent engine. Definately runs well. I had the opportunity to fly one last summer. It was a good combination on the Mangmum...... light weight, small, low drag plane.
One thing Ive learned over a few years, is that published HP and RPM are poor references. Every manufacturer calculates/measures/estimates/guesses power differently. The only person I've ever know to actually build a good dyno, calibrate it, and independantly evaluate a significant number of engines on it..... was Greg Edmunds. Without going into detail, the HP numbers he obtained rarely matched published information. You may notice the Jett simply does not publish any HP information, and its for this very reason.... it would be meaningless compaired to other peoples numbers.
If you notice, its generating 2.8 hp at an RPM you will likely never see in operation unless you install a fairly small prop, you cut the pipe shorter to work at that RPM, and the engine has the chance to unload to that RPM. The West 50 comes with a full header and pipe, which provides the best performance, and from what I could see, the pipe was set up for peak performance in the 18,500 range.
The best way to evaluate power output, is common comparison with a common load. That is why Dub specifys a common APC prop and a performance RPM (minimum on test run for him to ship it). If you compair engines with a common prop, you will get a consistant comparison of engine power.
Jett offers the SJ-50 and BSE-50 engines. These are really hard to beat. The APC 9x7 is really too little prop for either engine. On the stock Jett-Stream muffler, my SJ-50 turns an APC 9x8 a bit over 17,800 rpm. My BSE-50 turns a tad higher, but its pretty much the same. Basically, they are running on the peak of the muffler curve with that prop. Need more prop with the stock muffler to keep the engine in the 17 - 17.5K range. The same SJ-50 with the SS muffler installed turns a 9x8 slightly over 18,000 on the ground. They unload a good deal in the air. You are familiar with the engines, so you know that they are extreamly user friendly. My 4 year old SJ-50 idles down below 2500 rpm
The tuned exhaust system is a significant factor. They can boost RPM, but they can also work as a governor limiting top RPM. At that point, you have to increase prop load to get back into that power band. Jett-stream mufflers are fairly broad band, which keeps the sport engines user friendly. Full size pipes are more critical with a narrow rpm band (peak), sometimes making it tricky to select the best prop and with setting the needle.
To push the SJ-50 side exhaust to max performance, you can install a full size tuned pipe. Dub can provide you with a pre-tuned system built to your requirements. That will add another 500-800 rpm, but you will be more restricted on prop selection to maintain the correct tuned rpm. It can also be tuned to stay at 17.5K rpm, and drive heavier pitch prop (APC 9x9 for example). It will perform just like the Jett FIRE 50 you read about on the Whiplash and Diamond Dust applications. If you wish to run a 9x7 and push it for max RPM, this is the way to do it, and it will exceed 19,000 at peak.
(what might be interesting, if anyone has an opportunity.... the West is basically a Webra 50 case.... muffler bolts should match the SJ-50 spacing in that case. Try installing the stock West 50 pipe on a Jett 46 or 50. It would be interesting to see the prop/rpm results)
If you want the best combination to go fast, without the big pipe hassles, order the SJ-50 (or BSE-50) with the Race muffler. The plane you showed looks fairly clean, and if it can move like a Q-500, this may be a good way to really push the envelope. This combo is tuned for higher rpm, and the combination is intended for use with AMA428 Q-500 props. Generally built for guys with Q-500 aircraft who just want to sport fly and go REAL fast. From the looks of that aircraft, it might work well in there. It will easily turn an APC 8.8x9 or 8.75x9 at 19,000 (About the same as the .40 racing engines, but with a reliable throttle, simple user-friendly operation, and excellent idle). Either of these props will pull about the same as a 9x7 on take off, but will unload and pull harder in the air. You can experiment with props, just ensure that each turns over 18,500-19,500 on the ground
Go to the jettengineering.com web site, and request the Hangar Sale list. There is an item on the last one you may be interested in
10. SPORT-JETT .50 WITH RACE MUFFLER 260. (REG 275) (SPEED DEMON FOR Q-500 PLANE)
(you have to order hangar sale stuff on the web site order form, and note its from the hangar sale)
I would not suggest using anything smaller than a 8.5 dia prop on any Jett 50, or on the West 50 for that matter. Most guys are running 9x8 or 9x9 on the SJ-50 and BSE-50. On these size aircraft, more prop running more efficiently at lower rpm will often give better over-all performance.
To directly answer your question, Jett's BSE-50 or SJ-50 is the best Dub has available. Their performance is about the same, so take your choice. The West 50 is no slug. But what I personally have seen, compairining apples to apples (prop, fuel, installation, exhaust system, durability, product support) the Jett engine is still hard to beat.
I'm sure others in the forum can give some performance figures for the jett 50 on various props.
I guess the bottom line all comes down to preference.
Bob
05-21-2004, 12:16 PM
#10
RE: New ARC speed plane!! WOW
Bob,
Thanks for the very informative response!
I wasn't aware there was a "racing muffler" option for the SJ 50, so that will definately play into my decision. I love my Jett motors, and praise them often for their performance. And yes, they are very "user friendly".
Nothing puts a bigger smile on my face than when I fire up my 90L!
Throttable and side exhaust are my personal preferances for a plane like this as FIRE would require a major modification, so I will check on the combo you suggested.
I just ordered the Magnum combo too, so I will be getting another West 50. Your thought on running the West pipe on the SJ 50 is interesting, I may just have to try it.
Again, THANKS!
Gary
Thanks for the very informative response!
I wasn't aware there was a "racing muffler" option for the SJ 50, so that will definately play into my decision. I love my Jett motors, and praise them often for their performance. And yes, they are very "user friendly".
Nothing puts a bigger smile on my face than when I fire up my 90L!
Throttable and side exhaust are my personal preferances for a plane like this as FIRE would require a major modification, so I will check on the combo you suggested.
I just ordered the Magnum combo too, so I will be getting another West 50. Your thought on running the West pipe on the SJ 50 is interesting, I may just have to try it.
Again, THANKS!
Gary
05-26-2004, 05:10 PM
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RE: New ARC speed plane!! WOW
IF YOU LOOKING TO HOUSE A REAR EX, THAT CAN BE DONE WITH THE RIFLE. JUST LET ME KNOW WHAT SIZE IS THE PIPE FROM THE GLOW PLUG TO END OF THE PIPE AND THE SECTION OF THE PIPE IS THE LARGEST.
05-31-2004, 12:13 AM
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RE: New ARC speed plane!! WOW
Hey
about them long tune pipes?
I just thought you tune the header to the prop you want to use?
So, how could that be hard to adjust to the mixture to right rpm setting??
Kevin
about them long tune pipes?
I just thought you tune the header to the prop you want to use?
So, how could that be hard to adjust to the mixture to right rpm setting??
Kevin
07-05-2004, 12:25 AM
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RE: New ARC speed plane!! WOW
What size crankshaft on the West Eurotech .36? And what's the weight sans muffler and carb?
Want to compare it to a Nelson .36 Combat Special.
Want to compare it to a Nelson .36 Combat Special.
