Shrike vs. Magnum and other questions
03-01-2005, 02:28 AM
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Shrike vs. Magnum and other questions
Guys... been out of the business for 7 years and just got back in. Back then I had a Combat Models F-16. Real screamer with an OS .91. I'm looking at getting back into high-speed and I have a few questions.
1. I'm looking at a Shrike or a Magnum, but whatever I get is going to be retrofitted with retracts. I've nerver been a fan of hand launching or wire skid landings, so retracts are definitely going on whatever I get. Which one of these will be better as far as fitting the extra equipment in?
2. I'm also putting a rudder on whatever I get. I just never felt right without a rudder. How hard will that be? I know that I would have to engineer something on the Shrike. I realize that all of this stuff is gonna add weight, but I feel that it's necessary.
3. Just got a new GMS .47. Good looking engine at a very reasonable price. Is this going to give me enough power for reasonable speeds without a pipe? I'm not looking for 200 mph, but 160-170 is about my minimum. Whats the best prop choice? This engine is only cleared to 16k RPMs, so whatever prop I drop on it needs to be aggressive. My question is how aggressive?
4. I fly from a pretty short field. Is it gonna be impossible to slow these demons down enough to land in 300 ft clearing 30ft obstacles at either end? Flaps probably aren't an option, but I may be able to mix in a little flaperons. I would think that the Shrike could slow down more than the Magnum due to the larger wing area. I'm fairly good at 3D, so I may be able to pull a little bit of tricky stuff to get 'em in. I'm not expecting to hang either of them off the prop, but are high alpha approaches possible? I know my F-16 didn't like them, but it was a pusher. I never had to do it anyway, my old field had an 800ft asphalt runway. I guess what I'm asking is what are the minimum speeds of these two? I've never seen a Magnum up close, but it looks like a Lyka Jet. I flew one of those and it was a real pickle to slow down.
5. Which is going to make the stronger wing... carbon strips or full glass? With all the other stuff I will have added on, I want to save weight and I know glass can be heavy. Also with that extra weight its gonna put more stress on the wing. I'm a strength freak ever since I folded the wing on my first trainer. I liked doing 1000ft full power dives and blasting across the runway. Did it a few times and the wing folded on pullout. Lost everything... even all of the servos. I dont like weak wings.
Any help on this will be appreciated. Once I decide what I'm gonna do and I start the build I'll keep you guys updated with pics and finally a top speed radar shot.
1. I'm looking at a Shrike or a Magnum, but whatever I get is going to be retrofitted with retracts. I've nerver been a fan of hand launching or wire skid landings, so retracts are definitely going on whatever I get. Which one of these will be better as far as fitting the extra equipment in?
2. I'm also putting a rudder on whatever I get. I just never felt right without a rudder. How hard will that be? I know that I would have to engineer something on the Shrike. I realize that all of this stuff is gonna add weight, but I feel that it's necessary.
3. Just got a new GMS .47. Good looking engine at a very reasonable price. Is this going to give me enough power for reasonable speeds without a pipe? I'm not looking for 200 mph, but 160-170 is about my minimum. Whats the best prop choice? This engine is only cleared to 16k RPMs, so whatever prop I drop on it needs to be aggressive. My question is how aggressive?
4. I fly from a pretty short field. Is it gonna be impossible to slow these demons down enough to land in 300 ft clearing 30ft obstacles at either end? Flaps probably aren't an option, but I may be able to mix in a little flaperons. I would think that the Shrike could slow down more than the Magnum due to the larger wing area. I'm fairly good at 3D, so I may be able to pull a little bit of tricky stuff to get 'em in. I'm not expecting to hang either of them off the prop, but are high alpha approaches possible? I know my F-16 didn't like them, but it was a pusher. I never had to do it anyway, my old field had an 800ft asphalt runway. I guess what I'm asking is what are the minimum speeds of these two? I've never seen a Magnum up close, but it looks like a Lyka Jet. I flew one of those and it was a real pickle to slow down.
5. Which is going to make the stronger wing... carbon strips or full glass? With all the other stuff I will have added on, I want to save weight and I know glass can be heavy. Also with that extra weight its gonna put more stress on the wing. I'm a strength freak ever since I folded the wing on my first trainer. I liked doing 1000ft full power dives and blasting across the runway. Did it a few times and the wing folded on pullout. Lost everything... even all of the servos. I dont like weak wings.
Any help on this will be appreciated. Once I decide what I'm gonna do and I start the build I'll keep you guys updated with pics and finally a top speed radar shot.
03-01-2005, 11:34 AM
#2
RE: Shrike vs. Magnum and other questions
Wow, you kinda want everything don't cha?
1. I'm looking at a Shrike or a Magnum, but whatever I get is going to be retrofitted with retracts. I've nerver been a fan of hand launching or wire skid landings, so retracts are definitely going on whatever I get. Which one of these will be better as far as fitting the extra equipment in?
A- You'll never get retracts into the Magnum wing, too thin. Retracts will fit into the Shrike.
2. I'm also putting a rudder on whatever I get. I just never felt right without a rudder. How hard will that be? I know that I would have to engineer something on the Shrike. I realize that all of this stuff is gonna add weight, but I feel that it's necessary.
A- The magnum would be easier to put a rudder on but not much easier.
3. Just got a new GMS .47. Good looking engine at a very reasonable price. Is this going to give me enough power for reasonable speeds without a pipe? I'm not looking for 200 mph, but 160-170 is about my minimum. Whats the best prop choice? This engine is only cleared to 16k RPMs, so whatever prop I drop on it needs to be aggressive. My question is how aggressive?
A- You will not do 160-170 with either of these airframes a GMS .47 w/o a pipe. Just aint happening. The Magnum is the faster of the two and with the .50 that comes with it and a pipe you are looking at 145mph max, in level flight. The .50 that comes with it is a super running modified Webra speed .50. Retracts is going to slow it down even more. The Shrike with a rear OS .61 ducted fan motor on a pipe can do about the same 145 level flight.
4. I fly from a pretty short field. Is it gonna be impossible to slow these demons down enough to land in 300 ft clearing 30ft obstacles at either end? Flaps probably aren't an option, but I may be able to mix in a little flaperons. I would think that the Shrike could slow down more than the Magnum due to the larger wing area. I'm fairly good at 3D, so I may be able to pull a little bit of tricky stuff to get 'em in. I'm not expecting to hang either of them off the prop, but are high alpha approaches possible? I know my F-16 didn't like them, but it was a pusher. I never had to do it anyway, my old field had an 800ft asphalt runway. I guess what I'm asking is what are the minimum speeds of these two? I've never seen a Magnum up close, but it looks like a Lyka Jet. I flew one of those and it was a real pickle to slow down.
A- Both slow down pretty good, depending on your abilities, you should do okay. If you're doing all this on grass the retracts are not going to hold up for very long.
5. Which is going to make the stronger wing... carbon strips or full glass? With all the other stuff I will have added on, I want to save weight and I know glass can be heavy. Also with that extra weight its gonna put more stress on the wing. I'm a strength freak ever since I folded the wing on my first trainer. I liked doing 1000ft full power dives and blasting across the runway. Did it a few times and the wing folded on pullout. Lost everything... even all of the servos. I dont like weak wings.
A- These are not trainers and built stock can hold up to whatever you can do, carbon strip is the easiest and lightest.
Any help on this will be appreciated. Once I decide what I'm gonna do and I start the build I'll keep you guys updated with pics and finally a top speed radar shot.
Bottom line if you want a true 170mph you ain't getting it here.
1. I'm looking at a Shrike or a Magnum, but whatever I get is going to be retrofitted with retracts. I've nerver been a fan of hand launching or wire skid landings, so retracts are definitely going on whatever I get. Which one of these will be better as far as fitting the extra equipment in?
A- You'll never get retracts into the Magnum wing, too thin. Retracts will fit into the Shrike.
2. I'm also putting a rudder on whatever I get. I just never felt right without a rudder. How hard will that be? I know that I would have to engineer something on the Shrike. I realize that all of this stuff is gonna add weight, but I feel that it's necessary.
A- The magnum would be easier to put a rudder on but not much easier.
3. Just got a new GMS .47. Good looking engine at a very reasonable price. Is this going to give me enough power for reasonable speeds without a pipe? I'm not looking for 200 mph, but 160-170 is about my minimum. Whats the best prop choice? This engine is only cleared to 16k RPMs, so whatever prop I drop on it needs to be aggressive. My question is how aggressive?
A- You will not do 160-170 with either of these airframes a GMS .47 w/o a pipe. Just aint happening. The Magnum is the faster of the two and with the .50 that comes with it and a pipe you are looking at 145mph max, in level flight. The .50 that comes with it is a super running modified Webra speed .50. Retracts is going to slow it down even more. The Shrike with a rear OS .61 ducted fan motor on a pipe can do about the same 145 level flight.
4. I fly from a pretty short field. Is it gonna be impossible to slow these demons down enough to land in 300 ft clearing 30ft obstacles at either end? Flaps probably aren't an option, but I may be able to mix in a little flaperons. I would think that the Shrike could slow down more than the Magnum due to the larger wing area. I'm fairly good at 3D, so I may be able to pull a little bit of tricky stuff to get 'em in. I'm not expecting to hang either of them off the prop, but are high alpha approaches possible? I know my F-16 didn't like them, but it was a pusher. I never had to do it anyway, my old field had an 800ft asphalt runway. I guess what I'm asking is what are the minimum speeds of these two? I've never seen a Magnum up close, but it looks like a Lyka Jet. I flew one of those and it was a real pickle to slow down.
A- Both slow down pretty good, depending on your abilities, you should do okay. If you're doing all this on grass the retracts are not going to hold up for very long.
5. Which is going to make the stronger wing... carbon strips or full glass? With all the other stuff I will have added on, I want to save weight and I know glass can be heavy. Also with that extra weight its gonna put more stress on the wing. I'm a strength freak ever since I folded the wing on my first trainer. I liked doing 1000ft full power dives and blasting across the runway. Did it a few times and the wing folded on pullout. Lost everything... even all of the servos. I dont like weak wings.
A- These are not trainers and built stock can hold up to whatever you can do, carbon strip is the easiest and lightest.
Any help on this will be appreciated. Once I decide what I'm gonna do and I start the build I'll keep you guys updated with pics and finally a top speed radar shot.
Bottom line if you want a true 170mph you ain't getting it here.
03-01-2005, 12:10 PM
#3
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RE: Shrike vs. Magnum and other questions
Tower spec's your engine at a power of 1.47 hp.
A Nelson Quickie engine is around twice that amount.
At best, you could expect to propel a quickie at about 80% of what it would go in full race trim. Off the shelf quickies (Lanier) might be good for 165 on a good day.
With that engine, you could expect about 130 mph at the upper limit on a stock quickie airframe. If the engine is unloaded to 16K, you need a pitch of around 8.5. On the ground it should be turning about 13 - 14K and be launched rich enough to unload in the air.
One way to add a bunch of power to the engine is to add the tuned pipe muffler made by Jett or Nelson to the engine. It will cost about as much as the engine, but should allow another 10-12 mph on the top end.
That is the cheapest way to see a 140 mph with landing gear. You can double the cost for the next 20.
If your field is small, the deltas do offer one big advantage over a quickie. They can fly and land at high alpha, create a lot of drag, and land in a very small space.
A Nelson Quickie engine is around twice that amount.
At best, you could expect to propel a quickie at about 80% of what it would go in full race trim. Off the shelf quickies (Lanier) might be good for 165 on a good day.
With that engine, you could expect about 130 mph at the upper limit on a stock quickie airframe. If the engine is unloaded to 16K, you need a pitch of around 8.5. On the ground it should be turning about 13 - 14K and be launched rich enough to unload in the air.
One way to add a bunch of power to the engine is to add the tuned pipe muffler made by Jett or Nelson to the engine. It will cost about as much as the engine, but should allow another 10-12 mph on the top end.
That is the cheapest way to see a 140 mph with landing gear. You can double the cost for the next 20.
If your field is small, the deltas do offer one big advantage over a quickie. They can fly and land at high alpha, create a lot of drag, and land in a very small space.
03-01-2005, 07:37 PM
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RE: Shrike vs. Magnum and other questions
If you want speed from a Shrike I would keep it clean and light. Build a take off dolly if you must have wheels. I built mine as the plans called for and it would stall well before folding the wings. Don't break any flutter rules on the ailerons or you may have flutter at high speeds. I agree with others that your engine with stock exhaust will keep you well under 150 mph. My Sport Jett 50 with SS muffler would turn an APC 9x8 over 18,000 static. My best efforts at calculating speed with timed runs would show speeds close to what you are looking for.
