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rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

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rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Old 03-05-2007, 11:35 AM
  #51  
flyboy99
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Jason,
I think its well worth the money. Just be careful of the CG, as I mentioned in an earlier post.
Old 03-08-2007, 07:47 PM
  #52  
Pubhi
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

I just purchased one of these a few days ago and it should arrive here on Saturday. I really hate the setup for that elevator servo though because it just flat out looks ugly. I am going to try and conceal the wire under the covering and maybe make some kind of a cover for that servo to make it somewhat aerodynamic.

I will be using a tower 75 for propulsion but I don't know if that is enough power now since the 91 isn't able to push it that fast. I was unsure of the prop size when I ordered it so I went ahead and bought a 14X6 and 11X7 APC props. I will cut down the 14" prop down to size and see how it does but I think i'm going to go ahead and order a 3 blade prop. What do you guys think?

I'm also a little bit concerned with the nose gear if it is as flimsy as you all say it is. Also, is it possible to remove the wings for transport? The info out there on this plane is very limited. I would like to be able to remove the wings for transport because it will be very tough trying to fit this in the trunk of my car in one piece. I am also going to use standard servos all around...is that alright?? If any of you guys have any ideas on the best way to get this done, please let me know.
Old 03-09-2007, 06:19 AM
  #53  
flyboy99
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Pubhi,
Standard servos should be fine. If I used the .75 engine, I would try the Zinger 11 x 8 prop. Remember, pitch = speed. My .61 turns the 11 x 7 APC at 20,000 rpm. Too many r's. You could vacuum form a cover for the elevator servo, if it really bothers you. I tied the servo wire on mine to bracing wire but you could hide it inside fairing tubing if you wanted to go through the work. I don't see how you can get it under the covering and not harm the strength of the stab. IMMO
Old 03-09-2007, 06:42 AM
  #54  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Pubhi,
The wing is not made to be taken apart but I think you could do that without much trouble. At least the outer panels. Here are I few pictures of what I've done with the servo wire. The important thing is that you relieve the strain on the wire where it exits the servo. It is in the prop blast and exhaust oil. I have siliconed the wire to the servo at the exit. I can't emphasize enough that the CG on the instructions seem to be way off. Read the earlier posts. I do not have any problem with the nose gear. I seem to have a different version than someone with an earlier post. Mine are not metal with screws, but nylon. When you set up the down position do not pull the pin to the end of the travel because it will go half way past the lock. Set it so that the whole pin stays on top of the lock. I have never had an issue with it.
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:26 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Pubhi,

on th3e bobcat 50 the servo wires were routed inside the tail boom.

you will need to drill a feed hole from the bottom up to the stab pocket. and a bit of monocoat will hide the hole.

A hitec thin wing servo fits inside the stab on the 50 size just fine make a thin hatch cover and it will be fine wth out ugly buldges.

see the niotro planes bobcat 50 thread in the RC JETS forum.
Old 03-09-2007, 06:08 PM
  #56  
flyboy99
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

That will not work on the Keecat. The stab is only .25 inches thick. The Hitec thin wing servo is .39 inches thick, and if you were to drill a hole for the servo wires in the horizonal stab there would be nothing left.
Old 03-09-2007, 11:46 PM
  #57  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Well, I started putting it together today and I have most of it completed. I am still waiting for the engine to arrive and hopefully it will be here by monday. Other than that, all I have to do is route all the wiring and hook it all up. I was planning on running it all on a 4.8v battery but I think I will change to a 6v since it has so many servos. The next hard step will be setting up the radio. I have never used a programmable mix before but I am going to use it for the rudder/steering servos. The nose gear is a little fidgety but I think it will work just fine. I might have to upgrade the servo for the rear two wheels with one that has more torque but the standard servo will do for now.

I was also surprised to see that the wings are not glued on at all. Everything is bolt-on and i'm very glad it is. The overall design is very good and for the price, it just can't be beat. The airframe looks very strong and as long as you fly it like you're supposed to, it will last. The out portion of the wings can be removed by loosening a set of screws. I am very glad that I purchased this plane...now I have a poor man's jet. I will also leave the elevator servo as is just to simply the assembly. I will definately post some pictures once I finish it all and I can't wait to get it up in the air.
Old 03-10-2007, 09:44 AM
  #58  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Pubhi,
Here is something you may be interested in doing. An ounce of pervention is worth a pund of cure, so the saying goes. I put JB Weld on the landing gear under the wheel collar. This will keep the collar from slipping on a hard landing.
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Old 03-10-2007, 10:34 PM
  #59  
Pubhi
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

I think i might have a defective nose retract because there is too much play in it when it is retracted or in the down position. Did you guys have the same issue? It retracts just fine and deploys just fine but the play might make it less accurate.

Otherwise, I just finished putting it all together and its all set up right now. The CG is at exactly 8.5" from the trailing edge and I didn't have to add any weight. My fuel tank is slightly forward of the CG so when I add fuel, it should shift the CG slightly forward of the current location.

Flyboy, I went ahead and did that mix that you talked about earlier and it is absolutely the coolest thing ever. I didn't even know my radio had the capability to do such things.

The only thing left to do is to buy a piece of silicone tubing so that I can divert the exhaust down though the wing. I was unable to mount my engine sideways because the included muffler was too larger and it obstructed the landing gear. So, for the time being, the muffler is on top of the wing and I have installed a gray exhaust deflector. I'm sure the fuel will still end up on everything but I can live with it for a little while.

I will go and fly it tomorrow and i'll let you guys know how it does.
Old 03-10-2007, 11:23 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Pubhi,
You must have set some kind of speed record for putting this thing together. I can only tell you, that the one I have, flys best with the CG 9.25 inches forward of the trailing edge. With the CG at 8.5 inches, my model bordered on uncontrolable. My nose wheel gear does have some side to side play in it, but it does not bother anything. Good Luck with your maiden flight.
Old 03-11-2007, 07:43 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Well, I finally had the opportunity to fly the plane today and it was quite something. Over all, i'm very happy with the plane but the damn engine is a handful to tune. It gave me so much trouble all day that I was unable to even fly one tank without it cutting out on me. Every landing I had was a dead stick landing but even after all this, the plane came back home in one piece but it has some battle scars.

The first flight almost ended in crash because the CG was just wrong. I had set it at 9.25" from the trailing edge but that was just no good. I had a very hard time just controlling it. I also believe that the elevator was not trimmed correctly because I gave it as much down trim as the radio would give me and I still had to hold a lot of down elevator to keep it from climbing. Low speed stability was horrible and after the take-off I was afraid that I would not be able to get it back down. When I finally did bring it in for landing, I had to keep way too much speed on it just to maintain control. I was unable to put it down on the runway and the engine quit over mid field. The plane ended up landing on its own...or more like dropping...over some grass. The only damage was a bent nose gear. I was just happy to get it down in one piece.

I had to contemplate quite a bit about taking it back up in the air after that first flight. I went ahead and added more weight to the nose, bringing the CG about another inch...about 10.25" and I adjusted the elevator so that it was level without any trim. The engine was still acting up but I gathered the nerve to take it back up. Fortunately, I was pleasantly surprised on this flight because it flew so well. The plane tracks better than anything I have flown before. The rolls were absolutely clean and crisp and didn't require any elevator. The flight ended prematurely due to engine issues.

Another problem that kept arising was the landing gear. The nose gear is just too flimsy for something that is this heavy. I also need to buy some retract servos because these standard servos just don't work too well for retracts. If anyone out there knows of a better retract for the nose, please let me know.

So, overall i'm happy with the plane and i'm even happier that it came back in one piece. It isn't quite as fast as I had hoped though. I will experiment a little with the props but I don't think it will help me much. If anyone can recommend a better from than an APC 11X7, then please do so. I wan't to get at least 100mph out of this plane. I'm going to go ahead and buy some wheel pants to cover over the rudder and elevator servo to make it more aerodynamic. Before I do anything else though, I will let a couple of tanks run though the engine on the ground. If anyone can recommend a better nose retract, please do so. I have the gear down at all times right now but I would like to use the retracts.
Old 03-12-2007, 07:01 AM
  #62  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Pubhi,
Sounds like you had a bad day so I'm going to share my setup with you. You can take it or leave it, but I can tell you that the model will be docile and not drop its nose in a 90 degree banked turn and will slow down to nothing to land.
First, this model flies with down elevator. There are a few reasons why, but I don't want to get into all the aerodynamics here. You can except it or not. Your choice. 3/8 down elevator. See the picture.
Second, The CG should be at 9.25 inches from the trailing edge. At 10.25 inches forward the airplane will be hard to slow to land and will drop the nose in a steep banked turn, along with other problems. In the pictures below, the three lines represent three different locations that I have tried for the CG. The line in the middle is the correct location.
I have a 1/8 inch spacer in the top of the motor mount to provide up thrust in the engine. this will not get rid of the need for down elevator but will make the aircraft track better and also help to hold the nose up in sustained inverted flight.
The airplane was not fast enough for you, but you never put the gear up and you are using a prop that is under pitched for your engine. Try a Zinger 11 X 8 pusher. Its not a high performance prop, but it has enough pitch to keep your engine in its power range.
You need to use retract servos. Standard servos on the retracts may burn out or drain the battery during the flight. I'm using a JR high torque low profile retract servo on the main gear and a Hi Tec on the nose wheel.
You were having problems with your engine quitting in flight. Do you have the fuel tank in correctly? The instruction book shows this wrong. The stopper end needs to be toward the front of the airplane . See the picture.
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Old 03-18-2007, 05:34 AM
  #63  
MARVINROBOT
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

flyboy99, i should be getting my Keecat delivered soon. Do you have any flying video yet? I have seen an electric powered Keecat video which looks fast. I just wondered how yours flew. I intend to put an OS91vrdf Ducted fan unit on the back, not quite a jet but close enough.

Marvinrobot [8D]
Old 03-18-2007, 05:59 AM
  #64  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

MarvinRobot,
I don't have any video yet. I really like the way it flys. It should scream with a .91 ducted fan in it. Interesting choice. I'd like to see video of that.
Old 03-18-2007, 06:50 AM
  #65  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Flyboy99, I am going to strip all the film off and glass the entire airframe, the DF unit will generate about 12lb of thrust and could rip the wings off so I want to make it as strong s possible. Is the tailplane a weak spot as I think is could be made thicker to house the servo? Do you have any phots of the inside area around the nose retract servo?

Marv.
Old 03-18-2007, 02:10 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

OK...another update.

I have the engine and aircraft setup just about right. I am waiting for another nose retract to come in because I damaged the first one. Now that I have a few flights on the plane, I would like to make some recommendations that everyone should take when building the aircraft.

First, reinforce the firewall with a couple of screws because mine came loose and fell off on a slightly hard landing. ALso, make sure that you use locktite on the four screws used to hold the inner wings to the fuselage because they will come loose if you don't. I would also recommend using silicone glue to seal up the gap between the inner wing and the tail. The landing gear is a little too weak for a plane of this size, so if you can somehow make it a little more stiffer, you probably should. I have a hell of a time getting this plane to slow down enough for landing and it almost always overruns the runway. I would recommend some kind of brakes. The simplest way to accomplish this is by putting a piece of fuel tubing between the wheel and collar to increase the friction.

Other than this, the plane is absolutely awesome. It flies really well and I definitely recommend it.
Old 03-18-2007, 03:52 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Pubhi, can you post some pictures of your mods as this will really help me with mine. I will probably mod the engine mount as I have a 5" fan and want a clean air feed. I agree with your suggestion about the undercarriage, I will definatly beef mine up and the glass reinforcement should help a bit. I have a suggestion which I have used on other fast landing models, use the rudders as airbrakes by deflecting them inwards, thus creating a forced pocket of air and should really slow the model down. Let me know what you think?

Marv.
Old 03-24-2007, 12:06 PM
  #68  
Pubhi
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Hey marv,

I will take some pictures tomorrow and post them up as soon as I get the chance.

I think I have finally managed to work out all the kinks. The engine is running absolutely great and the plane flies even better. I did add a 1/8" spacer to give the engine some down thrust. Unfortunately, it still wants to climb at the bottom of a dive. I don't know what the issue is. however, the nose does not drop in a turn at all. I think 90% of my flying time is done 10' off the deck and the entire time i'm turning and burning. It doesn't fly inverted without a major amount of elevator input. I don't know if this problem is with the CG or what. Otherwise, this plane is simply freking awesome!! I'm going to try some more prop sizes but with the APC 11X7 i'm probably hitting about 80-90mph.

Flyboy, how does yours fly inverted? Lets see some video if you got it. I wish I had a camera for some video because you guys would love it and everyone would want one after seeing it. Anyway, I will post some pics tomorrow.

Par.
Old 03-24-2007, 12:16 PM
  #69  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Pubhi, the simple reason for the model climbing is due to the propwash below the tailplane. If you look at the BVM engine thrustline the angle is pointing down. If BVM didn't do this it would create a pocket of low air pressure below the tailplane, pulling the tail down. I think you may need to shim the engine down more. I will try it on mine when it finally arrives.

I hope this explains the tail problem.

Marv.
Old 03-24-2007, 12:46 PM
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Pubhi
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

I don't think that is the issue here because there is prop-wash over the top and bottom of the elevator. The reason why it happens with a turbine is due to the fact that you have a very narrow streamtube of exhaust flowing underneath the elevator. This creates a low pressure region below giving the aircraft a pitching tendency.

It is not an issue with a prop driven aircraft because you have prop wash over the top and bottom of the wing, creating regions of equal pressure. I will play around with the CG a little bit and see what it does.
Old 03-24-2007, 01:34 PM
  #71  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Pubhi, this modelling melarky is good fun, you don't get this sort of debate with the full size guys. I can't wait for mine to arrive. What size tank does the kit come with?

Marv.
Old 03-31-2007, 02:39 PM
  #72  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

any video on this baby yet. I have the Nitro Model bobcat which is a blast to fly. Me and a buddy was thinking about getting this keecat to see the difference in fly and do some experementing.
Old 04-15-2007, 01:09 AM
  #73  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Well, its been a while and long due but I finally got some pictures today. The plane you see in these pictures is a rebuild because I slowed down a little too much on a very windy day on landing and the cushion or air that was under the plane disappeared without a warning. The result was a nose dive from 5" and the front of the fuse was completely destroyed. Anyway, I like this plane so much that bought another one the same day and its together now, waiting for its "maiden" flight. I am going to try and get some video one of these days but enjoy the pictures for now.









Old 04-15-2007, 07:04 PM
  #74  
Pubhi
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

I made some modifications to the elevator by building a fairing to go around the servo. Here are the updated pictures:




Old 04-16-2007, 05:29 PM
  #75  
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Default RE: rich model keecat.60 size kingcat with retracts

Hi guys,
Me and 'Fast machine' are working on these at the moment - i am modifying a Ys 80 heli engine (bored out Ys 61). Check out this tuned muffler from Weston UK in England http://www.westonuk.co.uk/index_029.htm, seems like the perfect solution and they will make exhaust flange to suit your engine. What is the ideal COG on these ?

Thanks,

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