JETT engines?
02-23-2007, 07:55 PM
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RE: JETT engines?
I was really wanting to talk myself into wanting a Jett-90 for a Great Planes F4 Phantom propjet; I liked the idea of a hand-made jewel of an engine. Then I contemplated the cost, the long lead time, and no other options than a red carb and muffler (sorry to be picky, but a natural aluminum muffler & carb would look much better against the blue angels scheme)....
I really tried to talk myself into it, but bought an OS 91FX for way less money & it's a great engine for my simple sport purposes.
To me, part of the allure of a Jett is the exclusiveness, sorta like having a mercedes when a chevy will get you to the same place in the same time. More power to ya Dub, but in my case the leadtime was enough to calm down my impulse to buy. The OS has been great & I've really never looked back & have a few more bucks in the pocket. Not bashing Dub in the least, I'm sure I'll have one at some point when it's right there in front of me & impulse can take hold. I wonder what I'll just HAVE to put it in.....
If you're a racer, then you probably need this caliber of an engine!!
for people like me, it's certainly cool & I'm sure it's a great engine, but really not necessary. Like grocery shopping in a Ferrari.
I really tried to talk myself into it, but bought an OS 91FX for way less money & it's a great engine for my simple sport purposes.
To me, part of the allure of a Jett is the exclusiveness, sorta like having a mercedes when a chevy will get you to the same place in the same time. More power to ya Dub, but in my case the leadtime was enough to calm down my impulse to buy. The OS has been great & I've really never looked back & have a few more bucks in the pocket. Not bashing Dub in the least, I'm sure I'll have one at some point when it's right there in front of me & impulse can take hold. I wonder what I'll just HAVE to put it in.....
If you're a racer, then you probably need this caliber of an engine!!
for people like me, it's certainly cool & I'm sure it's a great engine, but really not necessary. Like grocery shopping in a Ferrari.
02-23-2007, 08:21 PM
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RE: JETT engines?
There is no substatute man how true it is!I have one in a Cermark F-16 with 250 + flights and the only two times the motor quit was because I was having too much fun and I ran the tank dry.The other one is in a V-mar F-4 and just as much fun
02-24-2007, 02:30 AM
#9
RE: JETT engines?
ORIGINAL: alpinestar
............To me, part of the allure of a Jett is the exclusiveness, sorta like having a mercedes when a chevy will get you to the same place in the same time.
............To me, part of the allure of a Jett is the exclusiveness, sorta like having a mercedes when a chevy will get you to the same place in the same time.
kc
EDIT: oh and unlike the Mercedes/Chevy statement, the Jett will get you to the grocery store and back allot faster
02-24-2007, 08:41 AM
#10
RE: JETT engines?
ORIGINAL: i live for 3D
I was just wondering were i can find them?
I was just wondering were i can find them?
For your money you get Quality American Made High Performance Engines.
A few years ago I bought a Jett .50 FIRE for my Whiplash. I wanted it to go fast real fast. Today I have ten of them, from a BSE FIRE .30 to the 1.20! Not just for my speed plane addiction but for some of my sport planes too. I have bought them new, used and even traded for one. Dubb just rebuilt a crash damaged FIRE 50 for me and it is as good as new! Dub provides service like no other, IMHO.
In years past I really liked the OS.46FX, as a sport class motor, and still do. I put a pipe on one and flew the snott out of it and after one summer it needed and overhaul. The import clones of the OS I found to be of lesser quality. The exception was a Thunder Tiger pro.25 ran well in stock configuration for a sport class motor.
E-mail Jett Engineering for the " Hangar Sale" list . You can save a few $$ on a great engine with a cosmetic flaw.
JettFreak Bob
02-26-2007, 11:29 AM
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RE: JETT engines?
ORIGINAL: alpinestar
To me, part of the allure of a Jett is the exclusiveness, sorta like having a mercedes when a chevy will get you to the same place in the same time. More power to ya Dub, but in my case the leadtime was enough to calm down my impulse to buy. The OS has been great & I've really never looked back & have a few more bucks in the pocket. Not bashing Dub in the least, I'm sure I'll have one at some point when it's right there in front of me & impulse can take hold. I wonder what I'll just HAVE to put it in.....
If you're a racer, then you probably need this caliber of an engine!!
for people like me, it's certainly cool & I'm sure it's a great engine, but really not necessary. Like grocery shopping in a Ferrari.
To me, part of the allure of a Jett is the exclusiveness, sorta like having a mercedes when a chevy will get you to the same place in the same time. More power to ya Dub, but in my case the leadtime was enough to calm down my impulse to buy. The OS has been great & I've really never looked back & have a few more bucks in the pocket. Not bashing Dub in the least, I'm sure I'll have one at some point when it's right there in front of me & impulse can take hold. I wonder what I'll just HAVE to put it in.....
If you're a racer, then you probably need this caliber of an engine!!
for people like me, it's certainly cool & I'm sure it's a great engine, but really not necessary. Like grocery shopping in a Ferrari.
If you want top quality, massive power output combined with impreccable manners (now there's a combination you have to work to find..), the best sport flying performance you can shoe-horn in a given engine compartment, reliability, customer support, yada yada.. Jett is the ticket. They are not likely the answer for every sport airplane in your hangar, unless the cost is of no consequence (wish that were true for me..) in which case to me there would be no contest for any aircraft that requires an engine for which they have a choice. If you want a reliable sport engine that performs pretty well and if that compromise in performance and quality is worth the monetary savings, then OS or other engine of your choice is your answer.
02-26-2007, 12:43 PM
#12
RE: JETT engines?
i recently seen a post by Bob that helped explain why Jett's cost more and why they are worth it. he also compared a few of them with the OS 50SX/AX for a guy asking about one for his 40 sized Extra 300:
kc
kc
ORIGINAL: bob27s
Hi. Thanks for writing.......
First.... thanks for the positive feedback Roger.
One point he makes here is quite true ..... the Jett engines are indeed higher performance engines than most others out there, but the sport-jett engines are some of the most user friendly and reliable engines available today. Complete the break-in as per instructions, ensure you have a good fuel system in the aircraft, select props as recommended for the engine, use good quality fuel - and the engines will perform great for many years.
Second... You noted your Rossi 53 was a bit tempermental. That 12x6 you have on it could be the cause - that is way too big (unless you are running a full size pipe, and have it set a bit long to provide some needed torque boost). With that much load it is bound to get hot, idle and transition poorly. The stock engine/carb/exhaust system is set up to run best above 14,000 rpm - preferably well above that. At lower rpm the carb will have difficulty delivering the correct mixture - its a big bore carb. You want to select a prop for this engine that turns somewhere around 14,000 or better peak ground rpm. You may find much better performance simply switching to a 12x4 prop.
As for the Jett and OS comparison.......
The OS50SX is a real nice engine. Runs well, and is well designed. With the stock muffler it runs good, but the porting in this engine takes full advantage of a tuned exhaust system. Add a jett-stream tuned muffler, turbo-jett tuned muffler, a full length tuned pipe system, or an ultra-thrust muffler, and it can really perform to its full potential. Set up with the jett-stream, it performs just shy of the Jett 46 on a 10x6 prop.
So if you goal is ripping fast.... Jett offers the SJ-46, SJ-50, SJ-60LX. All of these engines are designed to turn up. The SJ-46 and SJ-50 are designed to be propped for a mininmum peak ground rpm of 15,500 rpm. The 60LX must turn over 16,500. Each will easily turn a 10x6 well beyond that number. The jett website specifies the minimum performance for each engine on a specified prop. For the SJ-50, any prop from one of the D1 APC racing props, up to about a 11x5 is fair game. The 60LX has a higher output exhast system, but can swing a 10x6 up at 18K rpm, or an 10x7 somewhere around 17K rpm. None of these engines are suitable for use with a 12" diameter prop.
The 55AX appeares to be a pretty nice engine from what I have seen. Runs well. However it is not a good choice if you are looking for speed, however it does respond nicely to a tuned exhaust system. This engine is a big prop/low rpm engine, and is much better suited to turning a 12x6 than the Rossi 53 is. If you add a jett-stream "60L torque muffler" to this, or a 10cc turbo-jett, it can gain some in rpm, but will see a big torque boost. You can run an entire prop size larger and pretty much hold the same rpm you saw with the stock muffler.
Jett's equivalent to the 55AX setup would be the SJ-60L, SJ-60L"H" (hover,3d) engine, or the BSE-76L. These are all "46" size engines just like those listed above - same footprint and appx weight of an OS46 or OS50. Specs for these are on the web site. These are all set up for lower rpm and larger props. The 60L"H" comes with an un-tuned, light weight muffler - special carb, and is very happy turning the crud out of a 11x5, 11x6, 12x4 or 12.25x3.75 somewhere around 14,000 rpm. The standard 60L with the torque jett-stream muffler is good for the same props, can push up a bit toward a 12x5 or 12x6 if desired, with the key to selecting a prop that runs between 13,000 and 16,000 peak ground rpm. Jett's BSE-76L is a true animal of all of the small-block engines. This engine is set up for prop selection to run below 12,000 peak ground rpm, but can turn a 14x6 upward of 10,500 rpm (yes, this is a .40 size engine). Attached are photos of my Aeroworks 40-60 size edge with the BSE-76L engine and turbo-jett muffler. This turns a 14x4W prop over 11,500 rpm.... plane has insain flight performance.
As for cost... we perfer to say it this way.....
The Value of an engine (or any product purchased) extends far beyond the cost of the product.
Value means different things to different people.
Jett's tech support is second to none. Few other engines you can buy, where if you have an issue or question you can speak with the guy who actually designed, built and tested your engine
The Jett engine construction includes REAL ABC/AAC construction ..... chrome on the sleeve. The aluminum alloys chosen are the same used in the world famous Jett racing engines. Bearings are sized and selected to withstand the performance and intended use.
The sport-jett engines come standard WITH the jett-stream tuned muffler, spinner nut. They also come standard with Jett's universal remote needle valve assembly. This needle assembly is leak free - and can either remain mounted to the engine, or can be removed from the engine and be airframe mounted.
And.. all of the engines are built, assembled, tested, serviced and shipped from Houston, Texas, USA. When you account for what the EPA, IRS, DHD, insurance and all that fun stuff necessary to be a manufacturer in the USA, that constitues some of the actual product cost.
So for a real comparison on raw cost - Figure what the 50SX or 55AX costs, add in a $75 tuned exhaust system of some kind. Perhaps account for $25 to replace the engine bearings in about 18 months.
As for the Value, again .....
If you take into account everything, from engine performance, service, support and so forth... it is something you have to determine for yourself. Same sorta goes for choosing between BSE or cast case versions - performance is basically the same, just comes down to which one you like (although the 76L is a BSE only available in BSE)
http://www.jettengineering.com/engines/sj40-new.html
Recommendation for your Extra 300 ........
1) stick with the rossi 53, and prop it more appropriately - drop to a 12x4 or 11x6 prop at MOST
(also ensure your fuel tank is 100% isolated from the airframe - wrapped in foam)
2) Jett SJ-60L engine. With your installation being similar to the Edge I showed here, consider using a turbo-jett muffler. The muffler will trade about 400-500 rpm on the top end from the jett-stream, but you will have no problem at all turning the crud out of a 11x6 or 12x4 prop (well over 14,000 rpm). And, if you want to really move out, drop to a 10x7 prop and you will find tons of level flight speed.
3) Jett BSE-76L engine. Use the lite-jett muffler (untuned). Select a 12x8, 12x9 or 13x6 prop... the fun part here is your vertical speed will probably be the same as your level flight speed
I hope this is useful. Feel free to contact me, or Dub at any time with questions.
Bob Brassell
Hi. Thanks for writing.......
First.... thanks for the positive feedback Roger.
One point he makes here is quite true ..... the Jett engines are indeed higher performance engines than most others out there, but the sport-jett engines are some of the most user friendly and reliable engines available today. Complete the break-in as per instructions, ensure you have a good fuel system in the aircraft, select props as recommended for the engine, use good quality fuel - and the engines will perform great for many years.
Second... You noted your Rossi 53 was a bit tempermental. That 12x6 you have on it could be the cause - that is way too big (unless you are running a full size pipe, and have it set a bit long to provide some needed torque boost). With that much load it is bound to get hot, idle and transition poorly. The stock engine/carb/exhaust system is set up to run best above 14,000 rpm - preferably well above that. At lower rpm the carb will have difficulty delivering the correct mixture - its a big bore carb. You want to select a prop for this engine that turns somewhere around 14,000 or better peak ground rpm. You may find much better performance simply switching to a 12x4 prop.
As for the Jett and OS comparison.......
The OS50SX is a real nice engine. Runs well, and is well designed. With the stock muffler it runs good, but the porting in this engine takes full advantage of a tuned exhaust system. Add a jett-stream tuned muffler, turbo-jett tuned muffler, a full length tuned pipe system, or an ultra-thrust muffler, and it can really perform to its full potential. Set up with the jett-stream, it performs just shy of the Jett 46 on a 10x6 prop.
So if you goal is ripping fast.... Jett offers the SJ-46, SJ-50, SJ-60LX. All of these engines are designed to turn up. The SJ-46 and SJ-50 are designed to be propped for a mininmum peak ground rpm of 15,500 rpm. The 60LX must turn over 16,500. Each will easily turn a 10x6 well beyond that number. The jett website specifies the minimum performance for each engine on a specified prop. For the SJ-50, any prop from one of the D1 APC racing props, up to about a 11x5 is fair game. The 60LX has a higher output exhast system, but can swing a 10x6 up at 18K rpm, or an 10x7 somewhere around 17K rpm. None of these engines are suitable for use with a 12" diameter prop.
The 55AX appeares to be a pretty nice engine from what I have seen. Runs well. However it is not a good choice if you are looking for speed, however it does respond nicely to a tuned exhaust system. This engine is a big prop/low rpm engine, and is much better suited to turning a 12x6 than the Rossi 53 is. If you add a jett-stream "60L torque muffler" to this, or a 10cc turbo-jett, it can gain some in rpm, but will see a big torque boost. You can run an entire prop size larger and pretty much hold the same rpm you saw with the stock muffler.
Jett's equivalent to the 55AX setup would be the SJ-60L, SJ-60L"H" (hover,3d) engine, or the BSE-76L. These are all "46" size engines just like those listed above - same footprint and appx weight of an OS46 or OS50. Specs for these are on the web site. These are all set up for lower rpm and larger props. The 60L"H" comes with an un-tuned, light weight muffler - special carb, and is very happy turning the crud out of a 11x5, 11x6, 12x4 or 12.25x3.75 somewhere around 14,000 rpm. The standard 60L with the torque jett-stream muffler is good for the same props, can push up a bit toward a 12x5 or 12x6 if desired, with the key to selecting a prop that runs between 13,000 and 16,000 peak ground rpm. Jett's BSE-76L is a true animal of all of the small-block engines. This engine is set up for prop selection to run below 12,000 peak ground rpm, but can turn a 14x6 upward of 10,500 rpm (yes, this is a .40 size engine). Attached are photos of my Aeroworks 40-60 size edge with the BSE-76L engine and turbo-jett muffler. This turns a 14x4W prop over 11,500 rpm.... plane has insain flight performance.
As for cost... we perfer to say it this way.....
The Value of an engine (or any product purchased) extends far beyond the cost of the product.
Value means different things to different people.
Jett's tech support is second to none. Few other engines you can buy, where if you have an issue or question you can speak with the guy who actually designed, built and tested your engine
The Jett engine construction includes REAL ABC/AAC construction ..... chrome on the sleeve. The aluminum alloys chosen are the same used in the world famous Jett racing engines. Bearings are sized and selected to withstand the performance and intended use.
The sport-jett engines come standard WITH the jett-stream tuned muffler, spinner nut. They also come standard with Jett's universal remote needle valve assembly. This needle assembly is leak free - and can either remain mounted to the engine, or can be removed from the engine and be airframe mounted.
And.. all of the engines are built, assembled, tested, serviced and shipped from Houston, Texas, USA. When you account for what the EPA, IRS, DHD, insurance and all that fun stuff necessary to be a manufacturer in the USA, that constitues some of the actual product cost.
So for a real comparison on raw cost - Figure what the 50SX or 55AX costs, add in a $75 tuned exhaust system of some kind. Perhaps account for $25 to replace the engine bearings in about 18 months.
As for the Value, again .....
If you take into account everything, from engine performance, service, support and so forth... it is something you have to determine for yourself. Same sorta goes for choosing between BSE or cast case versions - performance is basically the same, just comes down to which one you like (although the 76L is a BSE only available in BSE)
http://www.jettengineering.com/engines/sj40-new.html
Recommendation for your Extra 300 ........
1) stick with the rossi 53, and prop it more appropriately - drop to a 12x4 or 11x6 prop at MOST
(also ensure your fuel tank is 100% isolated from the airframe - wrapped in foam)
2) Jett SJ-60L engine. With your installation being similar to the Edge I showed here, consider using a turbo-jett muffler. The muffler will trade about 400-500 rpm on the top end from the jett-stream, but you will have no problem at all turning the crud out of a 11x6 or 12x4 prop (well over 14,000 rpm). And, if you want to really move out, drop to a 10x7 prop and you will find tons of level flight speed.
3) Jett BSE-76L engine. Use the lite-jett muffler (untuned). Select a 12x8, 12x9 or 13x6 prop... the fun part here is your vertical speed will probably be the same as your level flight speed
I hope this is useful. Feel free to contact me, or Dub at any time with questions.
Bob Brassell
02-26-2007, 02:43 PM
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RE: JETT engines?
ORIGINAL: MJD
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Bob will thank you for saving him all that typing again..
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Bob will thank you for saving him all that typing again..
Nothing at all really wrong with the OS91FX.. Its a good engine. The one I tested some of the muffler configurations on really ran great. A few of yall out here have seen how well it runs with the jett-stream bolted to it.
It is clearly understandable why cost and such is a factor. On that F-4 phantom, investing in the jett-stream for the already good running OS91 will probably give you the real performance the plane deserves
02-26-2007, 02:57 PM
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RE: JETT engines?
ORIGINAL: bob27s
It is clearly understandable why cost and such is a factor. On that F-4 phantom, investing in the jett-stream for the already good running OS91 will probably give you the real performance the plane deserves
It is clearly understandable why cost and such is a factor. On that F-4 phantom, investing in the jett-stream for the already good running OS91 will probably give you the real performance the plane deserves
02-26-2007, 03:07 PM
#16
RE: JETT engines?
ORIGINAL: MJD
I guess sometimes there are folks who like to challenge the claims that the extra cost is justifed in the end product .......
I guess sometimes there are folks who like to challenge the claims that the extra cost is justifed in the end product .......
very true, and those confrontational people haven't taken into consideration the $$$ they'll spend on a tuned silencer to get them up in performance and the down the road cost of bearing replacement. the Jett engine is allot like buying LiPo batteries and a brushless outrunner setup in an electric, you pay more up front but in return you get the enjoyment of better performance and a longer lasting setup with less down time and allot less frustration associated with replacing worn/broken parts on the cheaper up front cost setups.
kc
02-27-2007, 12:52 AM
#17
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RE: JETT engines?
It is nice that is is anodized red-
it is nice that it is hand made and made in America
it is nice that Bob is on here with AWESOME support
But what is really nice is flying a speed plane with one...Priceless!
I have never had a new one I buy used, both were in the $160 range so that blows the price comparisons out of the water.
I love my K&B-48, OS-50SX, and Rossi's but the Jett stands alone, only a YS-45 w/pipe or West-50 w/pipe can get near one... and I am talkin' the Jett-50, the 60 is again a level higher-
Cheers!
it is nice that it is hand made and made in America
it is nice that Bob is on here with AWESOME support
But what is really nice is flying a speed plane with one...Priceless!
I have never had a new one I buy used, both were in the $160 range so that blows the price comparisons out of the water.
I love my K&B-48, OS-50SX, and Rossi's but the Jett stands alone, only a YS-45 w/pipe or West-50 w/pipe can get near one... and I am talkin' the Jett-50, the 60 is again a level higher-
Cheers!
02-27-2007, 08:17 AM
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RE: JETT engines?
The lead time to obtain a High Quality Jett Engine is very justifiable if you think about it for a second.
Jett Engines & fine wines are very much alike.
Dub will sell no engines before their time.
Also remember another very important note.
Never be hampered by your equipment or your toys.
When I can't have great toys & play, Throw dirt on me GAME OVER!!!
Mike
Jett Engines & fine wines are very much alike.
Dub will sell no engines before their time.
Also remember another very important note.
Never be hampered by your equipment or your toys.
When I can't have great toys & play, Throw dirt on me GAME OVER!!!
Mike
02-27-2007, 10:19 AM
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RE: JETT engines?
ORIGINAL: [email protected]
Never be hampered by your equipment or your toys.
When I can't have great toys & play, Throw dirt on me GAME OVER!!!
Mike
Never be hampered by your equipment or your toys.
When I can't have great toys & play, Throw dirt on me GAME OVER!!!
Mike
02-27-2007, 11:21 AM
#20
RE: JETT engines?
ORIGINAL: [email protected]
The lead time to obtain a High Quality Jett Engine is very justifiable if you think about it for a second.
Jett Engines & fine wines are very much alike.
Dub will sell no engines before their time.
The lead time to obtain a High Quality Jett Engine is very justifiable if you think about it for a second.
Jett Engines & fine wines are very much alike.
Dub will sell no engines before their time.
kc
02-27-2007, 12:18 PM
#21
RE: JETT engines?
I love my Jett 90, and I look at it like this:
1) The stock OS90 is ok, but nothing to write home about.
2) You need to add a Jettstream pipe to 'wake' the 90 up.
The cost between the above and a Jett is like a case or two of beer in the difference, and as far as I was concerned, it was a no brainer. Lead time is nothing. If you want a Jett, put your order in and be comfortable in the knowledge that when it that does arrive on your doorstep, you are getting the best, handbuilt, Dub run and approved engine you can get. Service, from what I have heard on here is outstanding ( I wouldn't know personally as mine has never been returned), and to be able to have any work done on homeland soil, as opposed to Japan, speaks volumes.
The price point is different, yes, but when you add up all the other hidden costs, the Jett is one great value.
Spar
(will probably have to get my order in soon for that new Cermark F18....)
1) The stock OS90 is ok, but nothing to write home about.
2) You need to add a Jettstream pipe to 'wake' the 90 up.
The cost between the above and a Jett is like a case or two of beer in the difference, and as far as I was concerned, it was a no brainer. Lead time is nothing. If you want a Jett, put your order in and be comfortable in the knowledge that when it that does arrive on your doorstep, you are getting the best, handbuilt, Dub run and approved engine you can get. Service, from what I have heard on here is outstanding ( I wouldn't know personally as mine has never been returned), and to be able to have any work done on homeland soil, as opposed to Japan, speaks volumes.
The price point is different, yes, but when you add up all the other hidden costs, the Jett is one great value.
Spar
(will probably have to get my order in soon for that new Cermark F18....)
02-27-2007, 02:44 PM
#23
RE: JETT engines?
I was referring to North America as opposed to the Far East. I consider after sales support in the US as 'local' compared to Europe, etc. Not intended to offend.
Spar
Spar
02-27-2007, 03:00 PM
#24
