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(Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

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Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

(Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Old 07-15-2007, 10:29 PM
  #76  
ChuckL
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Ya I missed the that view of the fuselage looks like it would work out just fine.
Old 07-15-2007, 11:11 PM
  #77  
Mike Connor
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread


ORIGINAL: iron eagel

Thanks mike,
I think that with a 91 df it be way to fast for where I fly....
I bet that you could get 200+ out of that setup, even with a bigger airframe.
Just add the extension you have and a 60-70 would fit well and more than enough power. Hmm, make the center section an inch or two wider mount the engine sidewinder totally enclosed within the fuse. Pipe the exhaust and air to a rear dump bet that would honk.

Have you seen:
http://www.shredair.com/fan.html
4 lb thrust...
I have been thinking about my next project being a Screamin Demon Sr. A 25% increase in size so a 91 df with prop would fit. A actual df version would probably look neat though. What is the "4 lb of thrust..."? I am getting more then that with my Thunder Tiger.
Old 07-15-2007, 11:39 PM
  #78  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

ORIGINAL: ChuckL

Ya I missed the that view of the fuselage looks like it would work out just fine.
If someone would spend a little time and build a full cowl for a fire engine like yours it would probably look really good and go like stink.

To all
While this project may look like a business it is really just a hobby for me. I really doubt it would ever put dinner on the table and I can see that kit manufacturing will get old in time. I thought it would be fun to sell a few kits for a plane that I think turned out really well. If for some reason the Screamin Demon became popular I would probably hand the project off to someone else in time. It is kind of neat that my creation will be international by the end of the week. I just hope that people like them.
Thanks all

Edit - I hope no one feels any pressure from me to get one is what I am trying to say.
Old 07-16-2007, 10:39 AM
  #79  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Mike that four pounds of thrust is with an electric df unit.

I bet 25 oversize with a 90 would do better than you think, the beauty of that is you can blend the engine right into the body.
If you run a prop on that engine and can get it to spool up to the rated 20-22,000 rpm think of what an 8-10 pitch prop would give you for a top speed. Lets see 8 X 20,000 = 160,000 inches per minute....

Nice to hear your design went international, that is cool.
I have done the same thing using carbon fiber for spars, it is amazing how much strength you can get from a small amount of structure. And the beauty of it is that it distributes all of the force throughout the structure so it can take a lot of abuse.
Hey while your at it put together a kit for one of the blue states will ya, you know where we drive cahhs.
Old 07-16-2007, 10:07 PM
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Mike Connor
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread


ORIGINAL: iron eagel

Nice to hear your design went international, that is cool.
I have done the same thing using carbon fiber for spars, it is amazing how much strength you can get from a small amount of structure. And the beauty of it is that it distributes all of the force throughout the structure so it can take a lot of abuse.
Hey while your at it put together a kit for one of the blue states will ya, you know where we drive cahhs.
I really like the carbon fiber spars ever since I started flying Diamond Dust. Very strong and very stiff but will allow some flex when needed. You can see the spar is the only thing that survived in the crash below. There is also an epoxy based carbon fiber with half the tensile strength and way too much flex that is cheaper. I paid the extra for true carbon fiber at about $7 a kit.

Was that an order?? If so, go through my site if it is an we will get things going. Short kits ready to ship this week and full kits next week. Unless I run out.
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Old 07-17-2007, 03:15 PM
  #81  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Hi Mike,
Place an order for one of your beast....
That must have been a spectacular crash by the look of the remains.
I am torn about the power for mine, glow or a real high spinning electric, could go either way. The electric version would be more of a fun fly, and I 'd be getting the motor for it, however glow I have several engines I could try in it.
Old 07-17-2007, 06:11 PM
  #82  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Mike,
Are you redefining 'short kit'?!?
Great job on the new delta! If I didn't already have 2 whips, a dust, and a mini dust all flying i'd be on the list for a new one!
Cheers
Old 07-17-2007, 06:23 PM
  #83  
Mike Connor
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread


ORIGINAL: iron eagel

Hi Mike,
Place an order for one of your beast....
That must have been a spectacular crash by the look of the remains.
I am torn about the power for mine, glow or a real high spinning electric, could go either way. The electric version would be more of a fun fly, and I 'd be getting the motor for it, however glow I have several engines I could try in it.
It would have been spectacular if it wasn't a good 150 yards out. The Sport Jett engine survived along with the CF spar.
If you go electric I would love to see a video. Thanks for the order
Old 07-17-2007, 06:30 PM
  #84  
Mike Connor
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread


ORIGINAL: smchale

Mike,
Are you redefining 'short kit'?!?
Great job on the new delta! If I didn't already have 2 whips, a dust, and a mini dust all flying i'd be on the list for a new one!
Cheers
4 deltas is just about right. Looking over my shoulder I would say I have a few more then that though. Thanks for the compliment. It will be interesting to get flight reports over the next few weeks and months.
Old 07-17-2007, 08:15 PM
  #85  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Mike,
I am thinking of using either an Axi or Atlas outrunners around 500-1000 watt system.
Both will spin 13X10 props direct drive, so if I use a smaller diameter high pitch prop should work well for top speed or a larger lower pitch for more 3D type of flying.
I have a guy in our club who is use to flying fast planes I will see if I can get him to do some high speed passes with it so we can get the video for you.

I am interested in seeing if there is any improvement in the performance by the more streamline shape using an electric motor.
Old 07-18-2007, 07:31 PM
  #86  
Mike Connor
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

13x10 sounds like a lot of prop but I guess the outrunner wont be turning that much rpm. You should be able to make the front end really clean with electric. Can't wait to see pics.

All parts are in and I have been putting together kits. ALL paid orders will be shipped tomorrow (July 19). This is a lot of work.
Old 07-18-2007, 09:16 PM
  #87  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Just out of curiosity: How many people have ordered one of your demon kits or showed their interest??
I think it's awesome that you came up with something like that cuz you still can't get any Diamond Dusts from diamonddustrc.com or morrishobbies.com. The Screamin Demon is like a modded Diamond Dust and probably faster because it has less drag (engine cowl, reduced wing span), but more importantly, it has a true airfoil. The airfoil of the Dust is rhombus or diamond shaped with 4 flat sides which from a aerodynamic point of view is a nightmare, and only slightly better than a flat wing. A 6% NACA airfoil is the way to go!!!

Right now I'm debating whether I should get the kit or just the plans. I would like to build the Demon using a Styrofoam core. I'm just gonna wait and see how my styrofoam/balsa Outlaw flies before I make up my mind.
Old 07-18-2007, 09:22 PM
  #88  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Mike,
I am not sure how far I can push an outrunner for rpm but both motors I am considering equal a .60 size glow in torque. They are both in the 7 oz range for weight and the ESC weighs about an ounce for one that will handle 75 amps. So my motor and speed control will be lighter than the glow setup. Now if I use 2 3 cell li-pol batteries that will give me 22.8 volts or roughly 1400 watts of go power, better than 1.75 hp. The weight of the cells should be in the 8-10 oz range, which should come out about equal to a load of glow fuel in weight, so I should not be adding that much weight to the airframe.

If I can spin a 13X10 prop with that perhaps a 12X12 might work, will be interesting trying to prop this thing. Another option is to go to a smaller diameter 3 blade while they produce less thrust they come into there own as you go to higher speeds.

Now where I have eliminated the need for a throttle servo I can use that for the optional rudder setup. All and all it should make for an interesting experiment. I am going to have to modify the main body in order to allow for a hot air exhaust but overall it should be pretty close to the stock design, save for the added rudders.

I will try and document what I do as far as mods. for the electric version and send you the info...

Regards
Paul
Old 07-18-2007, 11:38 PM
  #89  
Mike Connor
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Xardas26,
I am not ready to divulge my sales data at this time but I will say That more then couple are shipping out tomorrow and one is going out of the country. There are a couple locals interested also. This thread and flights at the local field are my only outlet at this time so considering that I say the interest is high. You can read the replies in here plus I get emails, orders and pm's.

You could easily build my kit like a Dust but it would have a NACA 0006 airfoil and save a couple of hours building but making it clean was the main reason I designed it. it is an inexpensive kit that can be built in many ways and with different looks. It will be very interesting to me to see what people do with it and how they like it.

I thought about Styrofoam but wasn't sure how I could make the center section strong enough since most of it would be cut out for gear. I am sure it can be done but I chose what I am familiar with. Let me know when you are ready.
Old 07-19-2007, 12:01 AM
  #90  
Mike Connor
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Paul
So you would have two cells at 8-10 oz each? That would still put you at 3 lbs or less and a wing loading of less the 15 oz per sq ft. The electric motor mount is 2.5" accross so I hope it will take the 2" motor and the slightly larger mounting gear. Any info on things I could change to make it easier for the electric guys would be appreciated.

The rudder is another thing I gave some thought to. There is enough room for 3 mini servos in the back side by side but the problem is the linkage interfering with each other. Maybe tilting or raising the rudder servo to put its linkage above the elevon linkage would work. I would be interested to see your rudder setup also. On my web site I changed rudders from optional to possible. Anyway, you should have it Monday or Tuesday.
Old 07-19-2007, 10:57 AM
  #91  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread


ORIGINAL: iron eagel
If I can spin a 13X10 prop with that perhaps a 12X12 might work, will be interesting trying to prop this thing. Another option is to go to a smaller diameter 3 blade while they produce less thrust they come into there own as you go to higher speeds.
I guess you won't know until you try but there is going to be a lot of potential 'P' factor with a 12-13" prop. It may want to torque a bunch on launch with short coupled verticals. I'd make arrangements for right thrust.
Old 07-19-2007, 12:10 PM
  #92  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

ORIGINAL: Troy-RCU
I guess you won't know until you try but there is going to be a lot of potential 'P' factor with a 12-13" prop. It may want to torque a bunch on launch with short coupled verticals. I'd make arrangements for right thrust.
Interesting thought, we will see. I was thinking that the total left turning tendencies from P-factor, torque and spiral slipstream would not change that much with a bigger prop. There is only so much energy from 1 hp so there will be a trade off. A big prop may have more p-factor and torque but less slipstream. I could be wrong. I wouldn't put in right thrust by off setting the engine just for take off. The left dip thing is just a part of hand launched deltas. it flies great with everything 0-0
Old 07-19-2007, 06:07 PM
  #93  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Since it has been about 35 years since I have flow a delta, the only p factor I am concerned about is the pucker factor....
Old 07-19-2007, 08:40 PM
  #94  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

I'm getting one of the ones shipped today. I can't wait, it looks like a better dust.....

I'm hoping I can build it for a fly-in labor day, but this summer has been crazy, so I just won't specify what year.....
Old 07-20-2007, 02:02 PM
  #95  
Mike Connor
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Maybe "P-Factor" would have been a good name for my plane but after watching the video "Screamin Demon" fits also.

ZeppelinIII
If I can build it in 4 days you should be able to build it in 4 weeks.
I sent you a PM because from you screen name and location I did not see an order.
Old 07-21-2007, 07:53 PM
  #96  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Mike,
Just wanted to let you know the kit showed up today, nice job on the plans. I have a couple of projects to finish up then I am going to tackle this one, unless a repair session crops up.
Old 07-23-2007, 12:43 PM
  #97  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Mike, if the Screamin Demon flies as fast as your LIGHTNING FAST SHIPPING it will be awesome!!!

I ordered on Friday 7-20-27 & received it Monday 7-23-07.

That's incredible & the quality looks really good.

I can't wait to build it hopefully only a few weeks away.

Will let you know how it turns out.

Sincerly, Mike Foster Brookings SD
Old 07-23-2007, 02:23 PM
  #98  
Mike Connor
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Glad they are showing up in good shape. Now it is time to build so we can get flight reports. I won't divulge my customers names but I am hoping for one real speed "Screamon Demon" in the first group.

I changed over to Balsa USA for my production run balsa and am pleased with the quality. Their price was reasonable also to help keep cost down.

Any feedback would be appreciated either here or through e-mail. Things like errors in the manual or parts hard to understand. Too much or too little wood or whatever you run into. I would like to see them all be a success.
Old 07-23-2007, 02:28 PM
  #99  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

Mike,

Did I mention that I have a New Nelson 40 & a New Jett 60LX & one of them is just begging to go on this bird??

We know a DD is very fast with a Jett so we may as well see how the Screamin Demon works out with the Jett 60LX as well.

I'll let ya know.

Mike
Old 07-23-2007, 02:41 PM
  #100  
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Default RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread

ORIGINAL: [email protected]

Mike,

Did I mention that I have a New Nelson 40 & a New Jett 60LX & one of them is just begging to go on this bird??

Mike
Now we are talking. Maybe a 9x9 or 8.75x10 on the LX for a real rush. The Nelson may work out well also but I personally would want a throttle for the first few flights. I can feel the Adrenalin just thinking about it.

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