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DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

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Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

Old 12-09-2008, 02:05 PM
  #51  
skylab
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!


ORIGINAL: MJD


ORIGINAL: skylab

Also forgot to mention to the people who have the older kits and still have not yet put them together, you
can download the new revised manual at:
http://www.diamonddustrc.com/Diamond...KIT_Manual.pdf

This manual will serve you better than the original. It has more pictures and details, and should simplify
as well as speed up the assembly process.

Thanks again,

DDust Team
Hi Guys,

I wanted to point out one small thing that I spotted, having recently checked this out. You show the fuel tank installation using one of those hook-and-loop Velcro handy ties. Those things are great, and I used them like that for tanks and batteries ever since I found them at our local hardware.

My experience with them tells me it is important that you bond the loop side down, not the hook side. Loop side = fuzzy, hook side = plastic feel. The hook side is typically nylon which has zero surface energy for bonding with any of the adhesives we use, and the tapered filaments making up the hooks pull out of the adhesive quite easily. However, the loop side contains a bazillion closed loops of polyester (typically). While polyester is not a high surface energy plastic, the matrix of closed loops seem to form a firm mechanical bond with the adhesive - a variation on the hook-and-loop idea I guess - loop-and-goo perhaps?

I typically use 5-minute epoxy for this job, applying it to the hook material and the wood before smoothing it in place. Then I put a scrap of covering backing plastic over that and weight it down for 15 minutes or so. My feeling is that epoxy will make a tougher bond, but I imagine CA gets a good hold of it too - I just haven't used it for that purpose.

I'm not a DD owner (yet) so I did not read the whole manual to see if you mentioned that somewhere else but I figured it would be in that section if so.

Just my $0.02 offering!

Cheers,

Mike D.

Thanks MJD,
I have modified the text on the manuals and will repost the modified manuals as soon as possible.
Yes you are correct the loop side is the side that should be glued down. Our photos show this but we failed to
mention it in the manual.

Thanks to all for your input. This helps us provide a solid product for all of us.

Thanks again,
DDust Team
Old 12-09-2008, 02:49 PM
  #52  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

Too late........I used a Med CA with a kicker. It's not coming off. Question... about to start covering. Any tricks or suggestions ???Thanks. Dave
Old 12-09-2008, 03:04 PM
  #53  
skylab
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

Make sure you tack it all around the LE and TE on both sides before tightening. The manual explains this in detail.
Also, I have updated the Diamond Dust manual that is available online to include any changes and addendum's.

DDust Team
Old 12-09-2008, 04:08 PM
  #54  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!


ORIGINAL: europatc74

Too late........I used a Med CA with a kicker. It's not coming off. Question... about to start covering. Any tricks or suggestions ???Thanks. Dave
No doubt CA works fine - I just can't comment on it since I've only used epoxy with this stuff. I figured it would work best with the cure time giving time to saturate the loop fiber bed. I trust it far more than CA, that's my personal preference. Apparently CA works, otherwise DD would not have put it in the manual.

One thing troubles me: the idea of unburned fuel soak in the tank compartment coupled with the knowledge that nitromethane is a pretty good solvent for cured CA and having used it for that purpose, makes me uncomfortable with the idea if you see what I am getting at. Not trying to stir a pot, just communicating my reasons.

I am positive about he loop side working better for me, and the description of its materials and construction online point in that direction as well.

MJD
Old 12-11-2008, 04:00 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

I just got done ordering one of these planes for my xmas gift going to put a os55 on the nose should be fast Iam hoping for 150 to 170 what do guys think do you think it will get that kind of speed out of it with the os or am I dreaming. Thanks for your feed back The Runnerr
Old 12-11-2008, 06:34 PM
  #56  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

Using the stock muffler, the OS 55AX would nowhere close to what you want.
With a Jett stream , Ultra thrust or a tuned pipe and the right prop I would expect sub 150 mph. Your best bet would be a sport prop like a 10X9 or a 10X10 APC to get the power to the air with a wider than pylon prop at the engine’s low rpm hp peak.
The 10X10 trimmed, reshaped and balanced to 9-3/4X10 may be the perfect load for this setup.

This engine is one of my favorites, but this wouldn’t be my first choice for this plane.
If you use one of the first two performance mufflers mentioned, you may have make a tall(1/8”) and thin wedge/shim to raise/rotate the engine’s right side so that the muffler’s end bell will clear the fuselage.

Pictured, a standard Dust with Webra 55,Jett stream,9X10 APC on 10%. Almost as fast as a YS 45 RE, 9X9 APC on only 15% but the Webra retained the speed better after a maneuver.
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:46 AM
  #57  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

Freakingfast are you in sac. area I see mather ca, under your name. Thats where Iam from where do you fly. Back to plane what would be your first choice for motor. But sience I have the motor will try I will get a tuned pipe and hope for 150. I can always change motor later. Thanks for the help Runner
Old 12-12-2008, 02:29 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

i had the whiplash before that ended up at 5 lbs and was too difficult to handle. Trying to stay light. I am looking at two used engines and would like some advice: 1. "RR 2", "40", "Dubb Jett." it looks like the qm40 with the back plate attached but is missing the exhaust, but appears to be in new like condition and full compression (I am afraid of these all out or nothing racing engines. Do they take larger props for easier launches??? On my whiplash it bobbed up and down out of control with smaller props on launch. Once up to speed it was great. I've never ran a racing engine, I think this is too much for me to handle but my buddy is willing to let it go cheap
2. OS 37 sz helicopter engine fairly new that quotes higher rpms than 35ax and higher hp. cylinder head can be modified. I had lots of success with my last heli covert ys 91 sr except for it nearly ripped the wings off my whiplash : )
3. On my combat I have had lots of success with 25 fx. I like the idea that OS 37 sz is similar. Besides I have 5 gallons of 30% nitro heli fuel. the sz is designed for 30%, no experimenting with plugs-head shims etc to get it to run right.

what do you guys think?
Old 12-13-2008, 08:37 AM
  #59  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

Runner
My favorite is the YS 45 RE (rear exhaust). They are no longer made, but they pop up all the time on here and the other auction site. Probably the strongest 40-50 class sport motor ever made and on extra special days run 30% and it’s just plane insane fast. There are other nice rear exhaust engines (RE) out there like the Jett. Stay away from the ducted fan engines if this is your first delta, they are heavier and have less thrust at first because of the small prop you must run with it and this can make for an exciting launch. One real advantage to a RE engine is that the exhaust coupler can be uses as a launch handle if it is thick enough (5/8 ID. X 15/16 OD.) and replaced when it starts to deteriorate, the thin light grey couplers are too weak to serve as a handle. Make sure the rear deck is reinforced in the area of the pipe mount, see upside down part resting on the plane in the photo. Note the battery position is on a clipped wing to counter the weight of a DF engine, the preferred 5 cell 2/3 A type will fit there and was substituted at assembly. You may see the plywood sheeting I used under the battery for extra strength there. The inside bottom corners were glassed too. The battery placement is just forward of the rear spar on my other dusts. Some extra balsa blocks were used that can be seen holding the rudder up for extra strength.

On the OS 55 AX you may need some help to launch it since you can’t use the coupler, it’s a shame the engine exhaust isn’t on the left, than it would have the right wing drooped for good launch. The OS55 will give you the longest flight time of any 40 to 60 class engine as it is very fuel efficient due to it’s porting, but I’d still go with an 8oz. tank for yours. You will gain a bit of power going with a tuned pipe but not a ton over a TUNED aftermarket muffler.

Clay
If you even managed to get one successful launch with a heavy YS 90 heli motor in a thin airfoil-ed, heavy Whiplash in little to no head wind…..I solute you!

The Q40 engine is full on but not too heavy….looks like you may have the skills.
The heli engines are strong, I use a TT39 heli in my Outlaw and an OS 70 in my World Models P-51. There is one thing they have in common is there thirst for fuel when used in a plane at full power, so your flights will be short. I can’t recommend the 39 because of this and I suspect the OS 37 will have the same issue.
If you already have these engines, what the heck, run-em.

If your into the sub 40 size engines, consider the Webra 36 ($123), It would be nice even on a clipped wing because it’s so light.
You’d have to thin that 30% down to 10% with FAI fuel, the Webra makes a lot of power and likes low nitro.
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Old 12-13-2008, 11:03 AM
  #60  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

Here's one for you. Just finished my first DD. Picked up a Jett Fire 50 to go insane (bought used thankyou). Problem is....having trouble finding a spot for the remote needle valve. I asked Jett but they no longer make the carb mounted needle. Any suggestions or pics would help. Thanks..
Old 12-13-2008, 11:20 AM
  #61  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

the Jett engine that my friend wishes to sell looks like a q40, lack muffler and says "rr 2".
Can I run it with a larger prop and be okay?
I had at least 20 flights w/ the ys91sr whiplash. I only had the difficult launches when I went with a smaller high pitch prop. I've heard the q40 were designed for just top end with the one size prop. I would like to put a 10 by ? ?
is it difficult to tune...
Old 12-13-2008, 12:15 PM
  #62  
freakingfast
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

They run the small carbon props and if you want to de-tune it you'd be better off running a different engine. I don't know much about those engines.
20 flights, I'm impressed. Did you hard land (crash) it a few times before you finally totaled it? The Whips were tuff but heavy and don't turn nearly as hard as a DD can do.
Old 12-13-2008, 03:19 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

Here is a picture of how I installed mine. Also a link to the thread. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_40...odified/tm.htm

http://image2-3.rcuniverse.com/e1/fo...07/Au56103.jpg

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Old 12-13-2008, 03:29 PM
  #64  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_40...odified/tm.htm
Old 12-13-2008, 09:41 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

freaking fast, the ys 91 sr is only 3 oz heavier than the 45 ys. As it does not require back presure off the pipe I ran a small mousse can and the total weight was just 19 oz.
With a 12 11n prop the whiplash launched easily. I had to land fairly fast and set up just right on final approach before cutting power. At over 5 lbs it did not glide well. The weight added up with carbon reinforcement, 12 oz of fuel for just 4 mins of flight, plus the whiplash was 16+ oz heavier than the diamond dust. I broke the engine mount trying a 10 10 prop and had the crazy up and down out of control launch, when it hit, the motor mounted busted off. The plane was in one piece but I could feel damaged ribs and see crack YES, I had bad landings and numerous repairs. It was very fast and I thought I could keep it flying for a while. But really it was just too heavy and powerful for it's size to be practical. Now being afraid of making the same mistake twice I was looking at the lightest engine. I really just want fast that will last a long time like my little combat shark wing with the 25fx. I've seen the webras and I know they are light but w/o the nitro and more tweaking to get them to run right just to save an ounce does NOT seem worth it. I also looked at a used 45 ys and was debating buying it. Finally, knowing I got bored of the 25fx delta combat and if cg and a 4 oz heavier engine won't make launching and/or flight characteristics much worse, then you are probably right and I should go ahead with it. the 91 is a really nice running and powerful engine but I doubt the cg could be figured out while keeping the plane strong and light enough.
Old 12-13-2008, 11:40 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

Actually, the YS 91 SR is 5.4 oz. heavier than the YS 45 by the info in the owner’s manuals 553 vs. 400g. The SR is still light compared to the Weba at 590g. or OS’s new monster at 618g.! Having an extra 5.4 oz. on the nose can’t help trying to flair, so I bet the landings were fast. LOL. If your looking for super power and low weight you cant beat a Jett 50 F.I.R.E. at 12oz. it’s 2oz. less than the YS 45. but it cost.

12oz. of fuel in 4 minutes Dang, and I thought my OS 46 VX df was thirsty. Did you ever tach the 12X11n or the 10X10?
Old 12-13-2008, 11:55 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

PLEASE HELP Standard diamond dust:

what's the better option, likely top speed and easiest to launch:

OS 35 AX 1.3 hp from a 10 oz engine w/ a 2 oz tuned mousse can Total weight is 12 oz

VS

YS 45 14.2 oz, 4 oz mac tuned pipe/header, plus 3 ozs add fuel, 2 oz add reinforcement

1.3 hp vs 1.8 hp 38% power gain

40 oz vs 51 ozs 27% weight gain

BUT I KNOW AS WEIGHT INCREASES IT JUST DOES NOT FLY WELL NO MATTER WHAT THE POWER. The power must increase at a much higher rate to work with the design. My 5 lb 3.3 hp whiplash is the prime example. But the glide rate, difficult in launching and elevator function sucked!

I am adding foam cores with c/f modified design like my combats to make it a bit stronger. The shark delta combat has been clocked at 110 mph with a 25 fx it's a bit lighter, 3/4" wing thickness at tips and 34" wing span. It does NOT gain much speed with a bigger engine and becomes VERY difficult to control!

which engine should I buy?

I like staying with the same size of the 25 fx, the combination of a shim, 8 plug, 30% nitro, mouse cans getting close to 19,500 rpms and there so easy to run and fast!







Old 12-14-2008, 12:28 AM
  #68  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

12 12 was around 14,000 rpms =/+ best to my memory it was a joke landing, elevator control was awful, you could not run out of fuel, you had to be on final and cut fuel and land fast. way too heavy on front. I want to be light on the engine and fuel that is why I am leaning towards the 35 ax at least at first. If my business picks up and I have cash to burn and still want more speed than I will buy the 50 JETT

am I making a mistake on the 35 ax vs the YS 45, if you told me the weight on the ys 45 and the performance was many times better than I would buy it

there is a really nice jett q500 and ys 45 ending sunday on ebay, otherwise I'll get a new 35ax and dream about the 50 Jett
Old 12-14-2008, 12:48 AM
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

Clay, you’ve tasted speed.....there’s no going back now, the 35 won’t do it for you now. The YS 45 on a standard Dust is a cake walk to launch and the speed will get your heart pumping. The engine on flea bay is a side exhaust by the way.
I wouldn't go with the foam cores, sheeting or too much extra C/F, the basic kit is very good. Using a 45 to 50 performance motor the only mods I'd go with are a 8oz. tank, reinforce under the batteries, move the throttle servo, servo mount angle change and add some wire skids unless you have some nice lawn to land on, things that I've described in the two DD threads in this forum. K.I.S.S. and have fun.
Old 12-14-2008, 01:11 AM
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!


ORIGINAL: claytucker

If my business picks up and I have cash to burn
I totaly understand, I've put some puchases on hold too.
Old 12-14-2008, 09:26 AM
  #71  
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

Any info on the "Giant DD"? It's on the site but links to nowhere.
Old 12-14-2008, 10:11 AM
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

WD, thanks for the pics. Nice setup.
Old 12-15-2008, 12:32 AM
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

freakingfast, thanks for the help
did anyone else bid on flea bay for the jett or ys? It rallied at the last min, anyway I finally won the ys 45 and will give it a try. 69 roadrunner, do you live in Mt shasta or mather? funny thing is that I am in Redding, between you guys. We might get a business project and move to Murphy for a few months, we'll know on dec 19th. So we could end up looking for a new field in your area. We also have family in El Dorado hills. Curious, freaking fast, do you work at one of the RC shops. Do you know Chuck Rounds?
Old 12-15-2008, 01:37 AM
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

Nop, I don't work at the LHS, and yes I do know Chuck Roundy, he's partly to blame for my speed addiction. There is a waiting list to join at the Eldorado field as of a few months ago. Sacramento Area Modelers (S.A.M.) and Mather Aerospace Modelers, both of which I'm a member have open membership. Good people at all these clubs. Give me a shout if you are comming to the area.

That YS 45 SE is a good engine but don't bother using the stock muffler. Use a tuned muffler or tuned pipe.
Old 12-15-2008, 10:37 AM
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Default RE: DIAMOND DUST RC LIVES!!!!!

Claytucker I do live in Mt. shasta and I fly at the anderson field a couple times a year. I fly most of the time with mike britton at the field in Montague airport. Buy a lot of stuff from All Arouns RC in Redding. Cant wait to get this plan for xmas. I have the need for speed. Roadrunner

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