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Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

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Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

Old 11-19-2009, 07:32 AM
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daven
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

Well, its been a few years since they have made a brass sleeve (they are all aluminum now), and the top of that sleeve definately looks brass to me. I typiclally will leave my sport (local) racing motors together most of a season and only do an annual cleaning, but my traveling motors get tore down after every race, cleaned and re-oiled.

You have to be careful getting the sleeve perfectly aligned, I don't see a way of doing it with the muffler on, but I've seen people try. The motor really only needs a couple runs after cleaning to "set" back into place. Everyone use to like a nice "tight" motor, but the fit on these is extremely good and "tight" or cold compression does not necessarily insure a fast motor.
Old 11-19-2009, 01:48 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

I'm going to try Hoppes #9 and a plastic bristle brush. I used to clean my TD .049s after every outing this way, [with a gun cleaning kit]. There is a valve face cleaning tool I've seen used at machine shops, if it is like a Scotch Green pad it will remove carbon without disturbing metal and the Hoppes should loosen/dissolve the carbon.
Old 11-19-2009, 02:53 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

That should work fine, the green scrubby works well also. I use to use Mothers metal polish which worked well also, although someone in the racing circuit mentioned that it left a residue that was not good. Not exactly sure about that, as it always worked fine for me, but you know racing rumors.

The Pitted "moon craters" in the head are definately effecting performance. You may want to consider a new head, they are reasonable.
Old 11-19-2009, 02:59 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

Hm. I will try the Hoppes as well...just went shooting last night so I need to clean my irons anyway. The "craters" look much worse in the picture than in real life, but I will attempt a good cleaning.
Old 11-19-2009, 04:40 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!


ORIGINAL: daven
The Pitted ''moon craters'' in the head are definately effecting performance. You may want to consider a new head, they are reasonable.
Not to suggest butchery where surgery is required, but just to ask - would chucking the head via the glow plug body, spinning it and carefully polishing the head surface be a worthwhile idea, or a recipe for disaster?

MJD

Old 11-19-2009, 05:00 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

That's how I used to make head buttons from scratch. Yes, chuck it up and fine sand it to a shine. The problem with heads on high rpm engines is that the snug fit into the liner goes away and allows it to chatter, which the engine will injest. If the good fit is still there, then redressing the chamber would buy the part some more time. If you know what the squish clearance is beforehand, it can be reestablished on the lathe, but a slightly lower compression head could be beneficial in some cases.
Old 11-19-2009, 05:08 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

Are you saying the fit goes away on its own?

<JD
Old 11-19-2009, 06:34 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

Yes, when they are new you can practically pull the liner by yanking on the plug. Hi-Po engine makers pay closer attention to this detail. There is a lot of buzzing going on up there. This is one reason why Cyclon, Fora and Profi have screw on heads. This is one of the downfalls of the G&Z .061, the 4 bolts don't do the job as well.
Old 11-19-2009, 06:48 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

The weekend approaches and the weather in my area looks to be good. I have yet to see my new APC prop...hope it gets to me tomorrow. Figures I had it shipped to my work address and it will probably arrive Saturday morning... Even if it doesn't, I will attempt to fine tune the motor. More video/audio shall be posted!
Old 11-19-2009, 09:00 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

I am attempting to clean the inside of the head, and there is indeed a shim on top of the sleeve. Do I leave it? Remove it? I run 15% Omega...what to do?
Old 11-19-2009, 09:07 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

I am attempting to clean the inside of the head, and there is indeed a shim on top of the sleeve. Do I leave it? Remove it? I run 15% Omega...what to do?
Replace the shim(s). Always do one thing at a time. If you clean the head and remove the shim and there is a performance difference how do you know what made the difference?

Ed S
Old 11-19-2009, 09:36 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

Good point...it actually has TWO shims. One appears to be thick-ish brass and the other is ultra thin and is maybe spring steel? It was on the head and I didn't realize it. I took MJD's tip and used my drill to clean the combustion chamber. I bent the plug in the process (good excuse to use a fresh one anyway) and this is what I got. You can see some cratering in the aluminum, but I don't know how severe this is. Before and after. Will the newer SS head fit my LS motor? Does two shims mean anything? You can see the spring steel? one in the picture.
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:57 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

You always want to use the least amount of compression that you can get away with. Always tune from the conservative side going toward the more stressfull.
Be leery of a new prop, especially if you anticipate it to be more load.
Take note of your set up as you have it now and the mph.
A higher load prop might make the needle hard to set and lowering the compression will allow the engine to work with the extra load.
It might take removing some diameter to make a higher pitched prop do better than the first prop you tried.
If the engine is acting "cranky" about a bigger prop, don't fly it until you figure out why.
I would fly the prop you had success with and get to know it before doing a lot of prop changes.
With a steady hand, a $20 dial caliper can help you know what head clearance you are running, how thick those shims are, how big of a drill bit you need for a certain hole, all sorts of valuable uses. I reach for it every day in the workshop.
Old 11-19-2009, 10:03 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

Thanks CP, that is my plan. I am in no hurry, but I guess I am just too excited... This weekend I will experiment with the current prop/tuning and do several flights to make sure I am getting the most from that setup. Only then will I try that other prop. Is that spring steel-like piece a shim, or a gasket?
Old 11-19-2009, 10:08 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

It's probably a .001 or .0005" shim, it's like paper?... I'll bet stainless punches cleaner at this thickness.
Old 11-19-2009, 10:23 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

Much thinner than standard paper...it feels like one of the thinnest feeler gauges on a set. Very thin yet very springy, hence my spring steel guess but you are probably right with stainless. You can't see an edge on it looking at it from the side, whereas the brass shim has an observable height. I have a nice caliper, but it is in a box somewhere...
Old 11-20-2009, 09:34 AM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

The Nelson head shims come in .001 (the thin aluminum one) and the others are brass .003, .005, and .008.

I would put both shims back in it, just how you had it and see if your head cleaning made a difference. Then play with your props, then look at possibly lowering compression, but my guess is that that probably will not help.

Lowering the head has always been looked at as a way of increasing speed, but doing the opposite can work also. A higher head setting, set richer, with a light prop, CAN improve your unload in the air and go faster than a high pitch, low compressed motor. I have had success going both ways. Typicallly I like the heads tighter on the Quickies, and the heads higher on the q40 motors, but lots of people are doing different things successfully to go fast. As long as you are keeping it rich, and documenting your changes, you should get a feel for what your motor likes, they are all a little different.

Does your muffler have LS scracthed into the side of it near where it bolts to the engine? If it does not, you most likely have a SS motor (my guess).
Old 11-20-2009, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

Given its age I assume it is an SS motor, but I did buy another new muffler for it, which does have the LS scratched into it. Interesting that the bolts the newer LS motor uses on the muffler were bigger than what my motor originally had, so I drilled out the mounting holes in the case.
Old 11-20-2009, 03:07 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

Got my package from Mr. Nelson today with the 2-inch counter balanced spinner. Looks good, but it needs some polishing. I can't wait to see it on the Magnum.
Old 11-20-2009, 03:54 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

OK, the case is definately an OLDER SS motor. They originally used 4/40 bolts for the muffler, but that changed at least 5 years ago to 5/40.

Some may call me crazy, but be thankful it is a SS motor for what you are using it for. They are far more user friendly, shake less, and hold together MUCH longer before failure than the LS motors. All at only a few MPH difference. Not a big deal for sport flying, but 4 mph = losing a 10 lap race by nearly half a lap.

Running a LS muffler with a SS case if better than running a SS muffler with a SS case so your in good shape there.

Take care of it, run it a little rich, and it will last a long time.
Old 11-20-2009, 09:16 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

Put the 2-inch spinner on after a quick polish with some Eagle One Nevr-Dull. Here is a before and after. I didn't get my new prop, so I have to stick with this one and make the best of it. Also, this Magnum has the notorious gap between the wing and the fuse when they are bolted together, so I got some wing saddle foam tape. I am no aerodynamicist, but that can't be good.

I was told that to properly align the spinner means that the notch in the spinner backplate (which is opposite the countersunk area) gets aligned with the open window of the crank when it is centered in the venturi. Is this correct? I had it this way before and it ran fine, but it is kind of "by eye."
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:40 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

I believe that is correct, everyone seems to have their method. I normally line the notch up so that when you look it it at the front it is at 10:30 (on the clock) with the head being 12 Oclock with the motor at TDC.
Old 11-20-2009, 09:48 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

Cool, thanks Dave. Hoping for some fast flights tomorrow.
Old 11-21-2009, 09:43 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

Got more video today...could be faster, but not sure. I think that I am not going to go any faster with this prop as is. I am going to try and get numbers myself, but can MJD or Mike can help me out with a second opinion? Here is a link to some of today's flying. Pass at the end around 40 seconds was closest to the camera (and my face) and seems the fastest, but the one before it around 23 seconds also seems fast. Thanks!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_OBqcAYbAk
Old 11-21-2009, 11:55 PM
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Default RE: Weston Magnum/Nelson Q40 w/ video...195-ish!!!

Man! Sounds GREAT! If yer not happy with that, don't know what's wrong with you boy!!

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