Is wet power a dead end?
03-18-2010, 06:24 PM
#52
RE: Is wet power a dead end?
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
I think the switch to electric power has more to do with men becoming more and more feminine as the years go by.
In my Dad's day, young men boxed each other in High School Gym class.
They played tackle football without face masks.
They were the last men of any generation to win a major war.
Issues like noise and gooeyness of toy engines were a non issue to them.
I think the switch to electric power has more to do with men becoming more and more feminine as the years go by.
In my Dad's day, young men boxed each other in High School Gym class.
They played tackle football without face masks.
They were the last men of any generation to win a major war.
Issues like noise and gooeyness of toy engines were a non issue to them.
03-18-2010, 06:43 PM
#53
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RE: Is wet power a dead end?
ORIGINAL: iron eagel
I have yet to hear anyone quote a price on a wet power system that will spin a prop at 33k on the ground…
(and weighs 4 oz)
I have yet to hear anyone quote a price on a wet power system that will spin a prop at 33k on the ground…
(and weighs 4 oz)
MB Profi .40 - $EU460 as I recall. 2.0-2.1kW, but not 4 ounces.
Maybe an Irvine or Profi F2A .15.. what, US$500 or so? But just a bit temperamental by comparison.. and still not 4 ounces.
But they'll never burst and set your shop on fire..!
MJD
03-18-2010, 06:50 PM
#54
RE: Is wet power a dead end?
Well of course I'm speaking in terms of general trends and not in specifics here.......
Think about the economic genius it took to begin marketing electric power way back when it basically sucked. Even when the power to weight wasn't half of a glow set up, some guys were making a living at manufacturing electric power for planes. All it took was someone with a vision to get the ball rolling.
It makes sense that electric should eventually take over like modern rifles took over from muskets and black powder.
In the case of pylon racing, the diehards there are more interested in racing than anything else, regardless of what type of power. Our local club opened up a small electric class a few years ago and they outnumber the guys who are racing glow.
Think about the economic genius it took to begin marketing electric power way back when it basically sucked. Even when the power to weight wasn't half of a glow set up, some guys were making a living at manufacturing electric power for planes. All it took was someone with a vision to get the ball rolling.
It makes sense that electric should eventually take over like modern rifles took over from muskets and black powder.
In the case of pylon racing, the diehards there are more interested in racing than anything else, regardless of what type of power. Our local club opened up a small electric class a few years ago and they outnumber the guys who are racing glow.
03-18-2010, 06:56 PM
#55
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RE: Is wet power a dead end?
ORIGINAL: evan-RCU
There are 1/2A's that will out spin that and weigh less than 4oz. Not to many electric systems that weigh less than 4oz either.....
There are 1/2A's that will out spin that and weigh less than 4oz. Not to many electric systems that weigh less than 4oz either.....
03-18-2010, 08:34 PM
#56
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RE: Is wet power a dead end?
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
Well of course I'm speaking in terms of general trends and not in specifics here.......
Think about the economic genius it took to begin marketing electric power way back when it basically sucked. Even when the power to weight wasn't half of a glow set up, some guys were making a living at manufacturing electric power for planes. All it took was someone with a vision to get the ball rolling.
It makes sense that electric should eventually take over like modern rifles took over from muskets and black powder.
In the case of pylon racing, the diehards there are more interested in racing than anything else, regardless of what type of power. Our local club opened up a small electric class a few years ago and they outnumber the guys who are racing glow.
Well of course I'm speaking in terms of general trends and not in specifics here.......
Think about the economic genius it took to begin marketing electric power way back when it basically sucked. Even when the power to weight wasn't half of a glow set up, some guys were making a living at manufacturing electric power for planes. All it took was someone with a vision to get the ball rolling.
It makes sense that electric should eventually take over like modern rifles took over from muskets and black powder.
In the case of pylon racing, the diehards there are more interested in racing than anything else, regardless of what type of power. Our local club opened up a small electric class a few years ago and they outnumber the guys who are racing glow.
But they have evolved what you see today is a far cry from the first ones.
I am waiting to see the CL combat guys start switching over, every fall my club host a CL combat competition, if I see that than I'll know for sure.
MJD
Thanks, I guess I should have included the 2 hp spec as well as the 33K and under 4 ounces...
Your right there is the bursting into flames issue
(Do not charge these things inside, or on anything you like, like your car).
03-18-2010, 09:53 PM
#57
RE: Is wet power a dead end?
IE, unless they beef up the cases and the shafts, I can't see how electric motors could withstand repeated stuffs.
Flying C/L Combat for about 20 years, I never retired a .36 due to a stuff.
The very first impressive E-flight demo I ever saw was done by a wheelchair dealer about 20 years ago. He overcharged big cordless drill packs in buckets of water and built his own motors.
Flying C/L Combat for about 20 years, I never retired a .36 due to a stuff.
The very first impressive E-flight demo I ever saw was done by a wheelchair dealer about 20 years ago. He overcharged big cordless drill packs in buckets of water and built his own motors.
03-18-2010, 10:31 PM
#58
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RE: Is wet power a dead end?
Neither do I, they would have to make them take a lot more abuse then they can now but...
With some of the prices I have seen for high KV motors that I have seen, they may become as disposable as the wings themselves for those who are into it heavy.
You only have to protect your ESC and battery and consider the motor as expendable as the airframe itself. But it just wouldn't be right...
With some of the prices I have seen for high KV motors that I have seen, they may become as disposable as the wings themselves for those who are into it heavy.
You only have to protect your ESC and battery and consider the motor as expendable as the airframe itself. But it just wouldn't be right...
03-18-2010, 10:50 PM
#59
RE: Is wet power a dead end?
One of the problems with high performance nitro engines is matching the prop to the airframe/engine during changing conditions of density altitude, humidity, and temperature. While conditions demand changes in the engine setup and it’s load, electric’s are unfettered by these concerns. It takes time to learn how to read a plug, how to shim the head or sleeve, and make a decent prop. Plus when you are not running mild sport engines on mild sport fuel, mistakes destroy parts faster than you read this sentence.
With an electric power system, as long as you stay below current or voltage limits, the overall system is much less critical, especially in regards to props.
With an electric power system, as long as you stay below current or voltage limits, the overall system is much less critical, especially in regards to props.
03-19-2010, 03:05 AM
#60
RE: Is wet power a dead end?
As i have said before, we base our opinions on our experiences and my very first experience with an electric powered flying object (i have done cars) was a RTF Belt CP. I would have to go back and look at a previous posting to see how many days the ESC lasted before i had to replace it but that was my first negative experience with an electric powered flying machine. On top of that, i kept reading about beeping which i could never hear until i happened to have my hearing aids in one day and finally figure out what they were talking about. I had gotten the new esc all out of whack moving the throttle stick around trying to figure out how to get it to beep and was posting around trying to figure out how to program it until i finally heard the beeps and figured it out. Almost 30 years in the sport and i felt like an idiot. 
I wear my heaing aids more often now. It wasn't long after that i started getting waggy tail syndrome and figured out that the gyro was bad. Since then i had spent a small fortune trying to get some satisfaction with electrics and like i stated earlier, i fly the crap out of my foamie deltas and the BP motor in my original delta is still running strong. I have disposed of a few batteries but the TP lipos i have used for i would guess two years now (not exactly sure) are still working fine also. My real hatred for electric has developed from my experience with the EDf jets so i guess it's not quite fair to slam all electric. My trex has also been good to me and has many flying hours on it so i have had some good experiences. Electric is coming, that is for certain but as long as i have the privilege of a nitro freindly field and can still afford the fuel i will continue to enjoy "the smell of nitro in the morning" and fly them till they fly no more.
I wear my heaing aids more often now. It wasn't long after that i started getting waggy tail syndrome and figured out that the gyro was bad. Since then i had spent a small fortune trying to get some satisfaction with electrics and like i stated earlier, i fly the crap out of my foamie deltas and the BP motor in my original delta is still running strong. I have disposed of a few batteries but the TP lipos i have used for i would guess two years now (not exactly sure) are still working fine also. My real hatred for electric has developed from my experience with the EDf jets so i guess it's not quite fair to slam all electric. My trex has also been good to me and has many flying hours on it so i have had some good experiences. Electric is coming, that is for certain but as long as i have the privilege of a nitro freindly field and can still afford the fuel i will continue to enjoy "the smell of nitro in the morning" and fly them till they fly no more.
03-19-2010, 03:36 AM
#61
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RE: Is wet power a dead end?
I think its a simple case of different strokes for different folks.... To me electric flight represents the modern day human condition of instant satisfaction. Just plug some componets together and off you go. I know, I do it too but... I fly my electric stuff (parkies mostly) on the days that I am bored and not really in the mood for packing everything to go to the field. However, for real "enlightenment" the sound and smell of a wet fuel machine can't be beat. I take my stuff out to the field and enjoy everything from playing with the egines, flying to hanging out with the boys.
On the topic of wet fuel for speed, its far from dead or a dead-end. I think its a challenge fitting an IC mill in the front (or back) of a plane and do it aerodynamically enough to produce some good numbers. Maybe it should be separated fom electrics.....Also, tuning an IC mill is somewhat of an art and a field of speciality all on its own. Electrickery works as well, so I think its all up to the man...and the challenge.
On the topic of wet fuel for speed, its far from dead or a dead-end. I think its a challenge fitting an IC mill in the front (or back) of a plane and do it aerodynamically enough to produce some good numbers. Maybe it should be separated fom electrics.....Also, tuning an IC mill is somewhat of an art and a field of speciality all on its own. Electrickery works as well, so I think its all up to the man...and the challenge.
03-19-2010, 07:18 AM
#62
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RE: Is wet power a dead end?
What about the whole battery charging thing?
For my gasser, I fill my tank, flip the prop, and go flying.
For the watt jobs, I charge my batteries for hours, and fly them, putting just about as much effort into it as I do filling my gas tank, as I usually have to take off a hatch, strap in the battery connect the deans connector, arm the motor...
For my gasser, I fill my tank, flip the prop, and go flying.
For the watt jobs, I charge my batteries for hours, and fly them, putting just about as much effort into it as I do filling my gas tank, as I usually have to take off a hatch, strap in the battery connect the deans connector, arm the motor...
03-19-2010, 08:13 AM
#63
RE: Is wet power a dead end?
You better charge your battery before you fly it the next time. And the transmitter too. Oh and don't forget the ignition battery. Hey you're an electric flyer and don't know it...
Most LiPos now can be charged in well under an hour, not as fast as refilling the tank.
Most LiPos now can be charged in well under an hour, not as fast as refilling the tank.
03-19-2010, 08:31 AM
#64
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RE: Is wet power a dead end?
I know I never fret about filling a tank, I can feel and see what is going on. But I constantly worry about what abuse I have unwittingly committed on my LiPos. I had a relatively new 1350 20C pack puff up last week.. used maybe 20 times, the motor draws no more than 15 amps, I charge at 1C on a Triton charger.. what the blazes else am I supposed to do..? I don't like mysteries, especially when they cost money.
Glow engines requires some experience and knowledge (not much though for the average sport engine), but is that a problem? Seems to me it makes it more interesting.
I guess I am officially old school! And glad of it.
MJD
Glow engines requires some experience and knowledge (not much though for the average sport engine), but is that a problem? Seems to me it makes it more interesting.
I guess I am officially old school! And glad of it.
MJD
03-19-2010, 10:01 AM
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RE: Is wet power a dead end?
Bad news for Lipo users..!!!
To All Saft Lithium or Lithium Ion Battery Customers
Re: Docket No. PHMSA-2009-0095 (HM-224F)
Ladies and Gentlemen,
The DOT Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration has published a Notice of
Proposed Rule Making, the subject above, which will, if enacted, make shipping all lithium
batteries and equipment containing lithium batteries above approximately 1 Ah nearly
impossible by air shipment in the U.S. and much more costly. The NPRM was published in the
Federal Register Volume 75, No.6/ Monday, January 11, 2010/ Proposed Rules starting on
page 1302. Many of the associations and organizations for lithium batteries, electronics and
transportation have been preparing detailed and complex comments to the NPRM. Your
associations and organizations are almost certainly going to participate in the comment
opportunity. If you do not have an organization alliance you can comment directly via this
address:
U. S. Department of Transportation
Docket Operations (M-30)
Ground Floor, Room W12-140
1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE
Washington, DC 20590-0001
There is also a website which is not user friendly. Comments are due before end of day 12
March, 2010. Extensions have been requested and denied. Compliance is proposed at 75
days! This is the most broad reaching and deleterious Rule Making ever proposed on batteries.
It will reach into every household in America and will significantly increase costs and slow down
commerce. It is important that everyone be aware and be actively opposing this NPRM.
Finally I strongly urge you to talk with your Congressional delegation about this topic. At least in
theory, they are the final voice for all of us. Their version of this is H.R. 4016, a related and
equally bad bill.
Sincerely,
Glen V. Bowling
Vice President of Sales and Marketing
[link]http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/pdf/2010-281.pdf[/link]
03-19-2010, 10:39 AM
#66
RE: Is wet power a dead end?
They have been posting that notice for a few years now. it comes and goes and runs the rounds from time to time.
Electrics have been slowly making their way into internal combustion engine circles. .1/2a planes was the first to go electric with no one making modern glow engines in that size range anymore. The .10's and .15's are right there being the next to be all electric with no one making glow engines for them. The .20 to .25 size planes are on borrowed time before they all electric too.
If you haven't noticed many .40, .60 and 1.20 size planes have electric options now. So they are slowly being switched over to electric too.
I have seen a new crop of 50cc to 80cc electric motors, so a number of people are going big for electrics too. The big high power motor controllers or ESCs are starting to appear more and more to go with the motors as well.
Glow and gasoline engines we be with up for a very long time, so nothing to worry about there. But as more and more flying fields and areas become more and more noise sensitive, one will either have to convert over to electric or drive long distances to remote flying fields to fly internal combustion engine planes and helicopters.
Heck i have a couple of the old pulse jet engines that would be fun to use again. But honestly I don't have anyplace I can even fire one up to test it out, too much noise for everyplace around here.
Electrics have been slowly making their way into internal combustion engine circles. .1/2a planes was the first to go electric with no one making modern glow engines in that size range anymore. The .10's and .15's are right there being the next to be all electric with no one making glow engines for them. The .20 to .25 size planes are on borrowed time before they all electric too.
If you haven't noticed many .40, .60 and 1.20 size planes have electric options now. So they are slowly being switched over to electric too.
I have seen a new crop of 50cc to 80cc electric motors, so a number of people are going big for electrics too. The big high power motor controllers or ESCs are starting to appear more and more to go with the motors as well.
Glow and gasoline engines we be with up for a very long time, so nothing to worry about there. But as more and more flying fields and areas become more and more noise sensitive, one will either have to convert over to electric or drive long distances to remote flying fields to fly internal combustion engine planes and helicopters.
Heck i have a couple of the old pulse jet engines that would be fun to use again. But honestly I don't have anyplace I can even fire one up to test it out, too much noise for everyplace around here.
03-19-2010, 10:55 AM
#67
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RE: Is wet power a dead end?
Maybe earlwb, you should strap your pulse jets to a car.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf63jbhcphY&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf63jbhcphY&feature=related[/youtube]
03-19-2010, 11:36 AM
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RE: Is wet power a dead end?
To add to what High Plains said...
In speed applications there this fact to consider, as it stands right now the asymmetrical nature of a wet engine gives it more frontal area than the same power electric.
Let's look at the math, the formula for this one is simple...
More front area=more drag= less speed.
Add to this...
Less vibration=less structure required=lower weight=less drag=more speed
MJD
I just read something about Triton chargers having issues, and not charging packs properly, I wish I could tell you I read it.
But also if you have a the wrong cell count for the shutoff set in your esc you can drain the battery too much and cause the cell to puff.
And then there are some packs that I really think the mix is off.
Mk1
As far as the Fed, they want to regulate us totally, it gets worst each passing day...
I saw your video link of the noise police, that test would be thrown out of court here.
In speed applications there this fact to consider, as it stands right now the asymmetrical nature of a wet engine gives it more frontal area than the same power electric.
Let's look at the math, the formula for this one is simple...
More front area=more drag= less speed.
Add to this...
Less vibration=less structure required=lower weight=less drag=more speed
MJD
I just read something about Triton chargers having issues, and not charging packs properly, I wish I could tell you I read it.
But also if you have a the wrong cell count for the shutoff set in your esc you can drain the battery too much and cause the cell to puff.
And then there are some packs that I really think the mix is off.
Mk1
As far as the Fed, they want to regulate us totally, it gets worst each passing day...
I saw your video link of the noise police, that test would be thrown out of court here.
03-19-2010, 02:08 PM
#69
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RE: Is wet power a dead end?
quick question. Do you have to change out anything in your rc brushless car to run lipo power in it? Not to harsh, i'm new to the rc world.
03-19-2010, 03:22 PM
#70
RE: Is wet power a dead end?
ORIGINAL: Tracer LGR
quick question. Do you have to change out anything in your rc brushless car to run lipo power in it? Not to harsh, i'm new to the rc world.
quick question. Do you have to change out anything in your rc brushless car to run lipo power in it? Not to harsh, i'm new to the rc world.
03-19-2010, 04:55 PM
#71
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RE: Is wet power a dead end?
Guys:
Thanks for a great read through this thread. Been playing with electrics for a while, and enjoying them. Lets face reality here. We are simply fickled and never satisfied. The only thing holding me to electrics is their wonderful 3D superiority and my old age inability to master rolling circles. By nature, I will fight it until death, or acceptable success. I get around two good circles now before punching out, so close. I'm one of those old timers still around that played football without face masks, baseball without hard hats etc. The small high school did not have boxing in the 50's, gas was 24 cents. We did have the big school bully who always wanted to steal your girlfriend with the outstanding bod. Can still see some of the scars, but kept the great bod and gave back as good as I got. David VS Gollith, ouch.
I think we are all fickled to a fault. Starting out in the hobby with U control, racing hell razors to combat. God, I remember when glow came out and I finally was able to start that GD Brown 29. RC comes along, gotta do that. Did we stay with pattern, no. Racing, no, 4 strokes, no, gas, no, the 40% birds, no, the electric turbines, no, now its electric 3D. I could not afford the variety of gear and batteries without Hobby King. Depron foam allows me to design and modify designs, and enjoy tinkering. My favorite airplane of all time is based on a free plan from RC Powers, Hacker clone 20/20, HC plush 25A, controller and 30-40C turnigy batteries. The entire project costs less than one TP 1800 25 C battery. Naturally the airframe is tweaked to satisfy the eye. It hovers and torque rolls with ease, great elevators and controlled rolling circles. Sweet.
The kicker. old area hobby shop shut down and were auctioning off remaining stock. Had to go. Found two boxes of old and nib engines in the back and under stuff. Saw a NIB satio 120 twin before I was chased out. The buyers on site were all cheapskates wanting something for nothing, so I bought two large boxes of engines very reasonably. After a month of freeing oil stuck engines, off to a broaker the majority went. Yea, made a few bucks. Took some time to lay some of those oldies and goodies in the shipping box. I kept a few, a OS 6, ST X40, a HP 40R-PR, satio twin and a few neat engines that I just could not let go. Big mistake. Every night as I wait for sleep, I hear those engines crying out to me. Run me, run me, run me! Better make room in the shop, and find some neat airframe kits on e-bay. As I continue the fun circle of life, so goes this wonderful hobby. ENJOY AND THANKS
Thanks for a great read through this thread. Been playing with electrics for a while, and enjoying them. Lets face reality here. We are simply fickled and never satisfied. The only thing holding me to electrics is their wonderful 3D superiority and my old age inability to master rolling circles. By nature, I will fight it until death, or acceptable success. I get around two good circles now before punching out, so close. I'm one of those old timers still around that played football without face masks, baseball without hard hats etc. The small high school did not have boxing in the 50's, gas was 24 cents. We did have the big school bully who always wanted to steal your girlfriend with the outstanding bod. Can still see some of the scars, but kept the great bod and gave back as good as I got. David VS Gollith, ouch.
I think we are all fickled to a fault. Starting out in the hobby with U control, racing hell razors to combat. God, I remember when glow came out and I finally was able to start that GD Brown 29. RC comes along, gotta do that. Did we stay with pattern, no. Racing, no, 4 strokes, no, gas, no, the 40% birds, no, the electric turbines, no, now its electric 3D. I could not afford the variety of gear and batteries without Hobby King. Depron foam allows me to design and modify designs, and enjoy tinkering. My favorite airplane of all time is based on a free plan from RC Powers, Hacker clone 20/20, HC plush 25A, controller and 30-40C turnigy batteries. The entire project costs less than one TP 1800 25 C battery. Naturally the airframe is tweaked to satisfy the eye. It hovers and torque rolls with ease, great elevators and controlled rolling circles. Sweet.
The kicker. old area hobby shop shut down and were auctioning off remaining stock. Had to go. Found two boxes of old and nib engines in the back and under stuff. Saw a NIB satio 120 twin before I was chased out. The buyers on site were all cheapskates wanting something for nothing, so I bought two large boxes of engines very reasonably. After a month of freeing oil stuck engines, off to a broaker the majority went. Yea, made a few bucks. Took some time to lay some of those oldies and goodies in the shipping box. I kept a few, a OS 6, ST X40, a HP 40R-PR, satio twin and a few neat engines that I just could not let go. Big mistake. Every night as I wait for sleep, I hear those engines crying out to me. Run me, run me, run me! Better make room in the shop, and find some neat airframe kits on e-bay. As I continue the fun circle of life, so goes this wonderful hobby. ENJOY AND THANKS
03-19-2010, 08:23 PM
#73
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RE: Is wet power a dead end?
Hey guys I took some video of the minnow on Radar.
I was a little pessimistic in my performance.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1ibJLdbFBw[/youtube]
This is my $250 electric power system. I don't think a YS110 on even 40% fuel would push it this fast. It's doing solid mid 130's and this is a BIG BIG plane it is MUCH bigger and draggier than a .40 size mustang.
Also please note the sound. IMHO hearing just the prop sounds much more scale than a chain saw flying through the air. I was listening to youtube videos of similar class full scale planes racing in Reno and they sound quite similar so the electric setup is sounding more scale than the glow setup. What do yall think?
I was a little pessimistic in my performance.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1ibJLdbFBw[/youtube]
This is my $250 electric power system. I don't think a YS110 on even 40% fuel would push it this fast. It's doing solid mid 130's and this is a BIG BIG plane it is MUCH bigger and draggier than a .40 size mustang.
Also please note the sound. IMHO hearing just the prop sounds much more scale than a chain saw flying through the air. I was listening to youtube videos of similar class full scale planes racing in Reno and they sound quite similar so the electric setup is sounding more scale than the glow setup. What do yall think?
03-22-2010, 10:50 PM
#74
RE: Is wet power a dead end?
That's pretty good speed with the Minnow. But I would expect a Jett 90 to achieve close to the same speed in that airframe.
After looking at the potential of the batteries, I think the bottleneck now is in the motors. While you might be able to pull 10 KW (13 hp) out for a brief burst of speed out of a 6S 5000 pack, I don't know of any motors that could handle it in a small enough package. The ducted fans units like Violet use 12 packs at much lower currents in rather large airframes. Perhaps a ducted fan motor driving a prop could go into the high 200's, certainly faster than a DF model.
But it looks like the IC engine has a bit more life left.
After looking at the potential of the batteries, I think the bottleneck now is in the motors. While you might be able to pull 10 KW (13 hp) out for a brief burst of speed out of a 6S 5000 pack, I don't know of any motors that could handle it in a small enough package. The ducted fans units like Violet use 12 packs at much lower currents in rather large airframes. Perhaps a ducted fan motor driving a prop could go into the high 200's, certainly faster than a DF model.
But it looks like the IC engine has a bit more life left.
03-23-2010, 09:15 AM
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RE: Is wet power a dead end?
I'm not so sure about those comments high plains. First of all a even a rear exaust jet fire .90 or 1.00 on a tuned pipe will only spin a 12x8 at 15,000rpm. That's only a 114mph pitch speed. I'm spinning a 13x13 at 11,000rpm. The jet fire would be too heavily loaded with a 12x12 to get to its max power rpm with its porting and piping. It would need to spin something like a 10x10 to get a good pitch speed, but in-flight thrust would be too low with such a small prop arc to to push such a big draggy model up to its theoretical pitch speed. We should also not forget that a jet fire .90-1.00 is $450+ vs my more powerful electric setup is $200 cheaper.
No small motor that can do 10kw? A medium sized NEU BAM 22 series should do 10kw in burst. That's only a 30oz motor. The really big NEU BAM can probably handle more like 13KW+ in burst (Rated at 10kw but NEU stuff is always under rated) and it only weighs 48oz. Keep in mind a YS 110 with muffler is around 30oz. I think 18hp out of a 48oz motor is pretty good. Keep in mind the BVM FAN uses only a 1521 or 1527 neu. Those are only a 17 to 22oz motor and are only rated to 4.5kw burst but BVM pushes them to like 6kw in jets.
No small motor that can do 10kw? A medium sized NEU BAM 22 series should do 10kw in burst. That's only a 30oz motor. The really big NEU BAM can probably handle more like 13KW+ in burst (Rated at 10kw but NEU stuff is always under rated) and it only weighs 48oz. Keep in mind a YS 110 with muffler is around 30oz. I think 18hp out of a 48oz motor is pretty good. Keep in mind the BVM FAN uses only a 1521 or 1527 neu. Those are only a 17 to 22oz motor and are only rated to 4.5kw burst but BVM pushes them to like 6kw in jets.