Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

Well, I've been bit by the speed-bug and I'm looking for a REAL FAST prop driven plane. After doing some reaserch, I looks like the Great Planes Patriot is one of the fastest / non-pylon planes out there, but they no longer make it anymore. I'm looking for suggestions on an alternative to the Patriot. Maybe an F20 Tigershark by Phenoix or Juno?? Anyone have any suggestions on F20 or any other real fast plane. I had also considered a Hangar 9 Sundowner 50...

I'm new to the world of speed, so any suggestions by you experts would be greatly appreciated..

Thanks!

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

The f-20 by Juno rc is a nice build for a 50 size plane, heres my build thread, i havn't flown it yet though, but from what I hear it flys beautifully.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8805451/tm.htm

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

You say you want to go "Real Fast" then reject one of the fastest types of models out there. The logic escapes me.

Ed s

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

Yes, pylon aircraft are fast. It is all about reducing drag. So you need a thin wing to start with. Anything that looks fast just because it has taper or jet like looks will not get you there if it has a thick wing. Case in point, the Lanier Shrike. Yes, it is fast but "piggy" as we say!
Low aspect ratio loses a lot of speed in the turn and has a very thick wing.
I have a Sundowner .50 but have not flown it yet. It really comes down to your engine as well. It takes power so buy the best engine you can and go with a thin winged, clean design. Or go the way of the flying wing.

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

i guess you want to look fast more than you want go fast:eek:, kinda like a civic with 20's and a big exhaust pipe?[>:]

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

Really fast and all of those planes you mentioned do not go hand in hand, but what is your definition of really fast? 100mph? 125mph? 150mph? 200mph? Patriot's, F20's, Sundowners etc are quick, but not what I would ever consider fast. There has been ONE Patriot I remember reading about that was fast, 180mph or pushing 200, I can't remember, but that is with a lot of work.
If you want fast and not really expensive, get a Diamond Dust, or a Demon, or something along those lines. I had a Patriot and personally I thought it was a piece of junk but that is just opinion.

Again, it's easier to recommend an airplane to you depending on what your definition of fast is.

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

I believe you have some good information here.

Trick is, if you want to go real fast, you want an airplane that does not really "look" jet like.

suggestion : QM40 airframe (glass/foam), sport TT46 engine, 9x7 prop and you can get some style, and have 130mph+

Some of the older QM40 designs are still available, and are quite affordable.

Matney still offers a couple. www.matneymodels.com as examples.

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

Good call Bob. I was going to post that link as well. But...he does not want a pylon plane?! Certainly the cheapest way to go. Funny how sweep gives most the mis-impression of speed. With our models, it really only gives crazy fast roll rate. Speed has more to do with engine power than anything else with clean airframe being right next to that. Sweep does not equal clean.

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

All the things that make a jet look like a jet are of no use when flying at m=0.3 or less. That's the issue right there. People are accustomed visually to jet-like appearance being fast.

I think the real trick comes as the designer - you know that is how people think and no amount of altruism is going to change the general public opinion. So you try to make them look cool while desiging in features that are of some aerodynamic value. Or you make them look like a jet and struggle with their quirky habits.

So many of those aerobatic/sport pattern designs are sleek-looking, sure, but have big thick airfoils and other features that have no basis in the art of fast model design. They sure fool a lot of people though. And hey, if the builder thinks it looks slick, and it flies quick enough for the builder's tastes and abilities, well then you got a weiner I guess.

MJD

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

you can find new Patroit kits for sale here in RCU and on eBarf, just have to keep looking
spring air makes retracts for the Patroit

no my kit and and retracts are not for sale. :)

my F-20 Tigershark ARF of was junk.

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

How fast do you want to go? And on what budget? Want user-friendliness or "Extreme Speed?" The two seem to be mutually exclusive. Put a Q40 Nelson on a Screamin' Demon (kit) or Weston Magnum (ARF) and tickle 200 with relative ease. But you don't get a throttle. You can find used Q40 motors for less than $200.

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

I have liked all the F-20 arfs I've had. They were a blast to fly and looked cool in the air. In fact I've got one hanging for whenever I want to fly and another one in the box just in case. 110 with a .46FX used to be insane fast for me when I moved over from combat. Now I have my next goal of 180. I should be there this spring.

It's all relative, what do you have now, how much do you want to spend, are you a good builder...it goes on and on. If you like the look of a Patriot or F-20, go for it. Thats what makes all of this fun.
Regarding a kit or ARF F-20, if you are any kind of a builder get the Juno kit. ;)

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

This is some great information here. I'm basically wanting to be in the 130-150 mph range. I realize getting above that requires spending a lot more money. I don't mind spending $200-300 on a plane and another $200-300 on a motor to get a real fast ship.. I also want a motor with a throttle. I really like the look of the Sundowner 50 and I'm guessing it would get close to 130mph with a strong motor, maybe.. I've seen some videos of the Patriot going must faster.. One Patriot was clocked at 167mph..

I'm guessing any plane with fixed landing gear is going to be limited to below 130mph, due to the drag of the gear. I had thought maybe one of these prop-jets with retractable landing gear might be faster than a Sundowner type plane. I also know the value of having a thin wing. I currently have a Hangar 9 40 size Mustang with a Satio 100 swinging a 13X11 prop and it's running around 100mph. It's limited in speed due to it's airfoil. It generates a lot of lift and I have to use a lot of down elevator at full throttle to keep it from climbing. It's a blast to fly, but I would like something faster.

I could get a Q500 type plane, which would meet all of my requirments, however I like my planes to look like a plane.

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

Please edit the title of your post to just a so-so fast plane.[sm=tired.gif]

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

I think you should look at the QM 40 airplanes and also the Jett engines ( you get throttle here). I do not think you would want to get a Sundowner much over 130 because of how it is built. They have been putting the Jett .60 lx in those though and getting around 130. The other question is are you wanting/willing to build or do you want an ARF?

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

You have to look at your surroundings, too. A Q-40 plane needs a lot of open space and smooth pavement at your disposal. It would be smart to start with a Q500 design and then clip the wings to practice landings....unless you consider yourself an Ace already.

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

I agree. The Q40 airframe may be the way to go with a Jett 60 or 90. We have a long paved runway at our local club, so just about any airplane will work at our field. What would the average Q40 with a Jett 60 get me? 150mph?? I don't mind building a plane either.

What about one of the RedDango Mustangs? Anyone have any idea if they are in the same league as a Q40? Would it be faster than a Sundower? The RedDango has retractable landing gear, but a thicker wing than a Q40, however the Q40 has fixed landing gear and a thinner wing.

I'm not sure if a thinner wing is better than a slightly thicker wing with retractable gear. The gear adds drag, but so does a thicker wing. Seems like there is a trade off. Either you get a thin wing plane with fixed gear, or a thicker wing with retracts. I know that most thin wing airplanes don’t have retractable gear since the wing is too thin to accommodate the gear.

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

I don't think delta wings float your boat by the "look like a plane" comment (It sure is getting old), but when it comes to fast on a budget there are few better ways to do so. Thing is everyone wants fast, cheap, plus killer good looks and whatnot. Typically, you can pick two of those at a time with a good chance of success. You can crack 130 with a TT .46 or other engine of that ilk on a Demon or DD delta. You're talking $200 for the pair. And while deltas have a limited number of tricks up their sleeve, so what? Fast, cheap. If you haunt online auction sites and RC marketplaces I bet you can do 160 - 170 for the same $200 combo.

MJD

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

This is the format I mentioned....

It's a P-51 mustang for all practicle purposes. DagoRed - (reno fame). Older Lyle Larson design. If you want it to look like a warbird .... paint it silver with some stars and bars.

Install a SJ-50 instead of the QM40 engine ....... 8.5x7.5 D1 APC prop. It is a sport engine, throttle, speed, reliable ....... hard to beat. This is a 140-150 mph aircraft. Not hard to land, wing loading is very reasonable. Flys on rails.

Same type of aircraft with a TT46 or something like with the tuned muffler added - that is just as much fun, and expect the 130+ range.

We have documented the Sundowner up at 130 mph mark. Most are down closer to 110-120. Just too much frontal area to go much quicker.
http://www.jettengineering.com/1s-su...r-trap-131.jpg
Sundowner requires EXTENSIVE attention to details to get it up this quick. Prop selection will change even with temperature and wind conditions.

Patriot .40 straight, clean, gear up ...... Jett SJ-50 or 60LX hits around 120ish. A few properly documented 130+.
Patriot XL ..... a few documented up around 125-135 with Jett 90LX power. Some reports and data faster from guys up in the high desert areas with the right air conditions.

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

To be honest, 130 is still really fast. Faster than most can handle. How fast have you gone in the past? 160 or so would be something to step up to anyway I believe.

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

For what it is worth, if you checked out my thread in this section, the Weston Magnum is a good choice if you really don't want to go with a flying wing. Here's mine, and I am in the 190's with that used Nelson I mentioned earlier. The plane can be fitted with gear if you really want, but like any "optional" feature, it adds weight and/or adds drag. I believe guys are achieving in the 160's with other throttled .40 sized motors. The plane is somewhat "prop jet" like, but much faster than any Patriot or Ultra Sport.

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

I remember that Flight Power guys were working on the Magnum a few years back, 10S with a Lehner motor, was expected to touch a cool 200 mph ... never saw that happen, it would be great to see one that fast!

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

First, get rid of the prop!!!! Go EDF, phase 3 F-16 with the proper fan and motor will kill everything mentioned above for a reasonable amount of money. HET FAN and motor and you will be the fastest non-turbine at your field.

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

If you want cheap and easy I would go with something like the VIP Racer or VooDoo ... slap on any decent brushless motor and a 3S pack and they go like stink. They are a little small though. :)

RE: Looking for a real FAST plane!
 

I dont think edf is efficent as a prop but there is a guy claiming 170 with p3 f16 on youtube