Im fortunate enough to have a football sized field behind my house that I fly out of. But Ill pretty much go fly just about anywhere. Parking lots are lots of fun. Ive flown my micro XRB heli in some strange places. Parking lots, the breakroom where I work, food court at the mall, in front of the hobby shop, inside my friends trailer, outside of his trailer.

Geez i'm glad our Aussie cops dont see it as a crime, i fly out of my yard and i back on to the local cop shop and adjoin a retirement home, i also make a habit of chasing the local dogs down the street[>:] so far the worst i've had was having to go around on a landing when the local cop car came around the corner.

It would be nice if I could stop and fly in any of the many local parks when they are vacant. Just another of the actions of the rich punks that live around here being ignorant and scared of our models.

I have been fortunate to find a vacant building 1 block from my office that has a parking lot in the back that's hidden from street. I do fly there some, it's a small area but better than nothing.

what will the cops&kids think when they see this heading at them lol
[link=http://www.flyingthingz.com/]flying things[/link]
[link=http://www.redrockethobbies.com/product.asp?ProductID=15923]flying witch[/link]
[>:]

WhtBrnco (& all),

Remember, most of these ordinances and restrictions were written before e-flight was popular or even feasible. (What's it been, 8 months now? ) Most defined the activity NOT in terms of what was annoying about it, i.e., noise, hurtling objects, gas & smoke, but instead took the lazy/sloppy approach of simply banning "model aircraft" or "remotely controlled devices".

What you need to do is get those rules updated by politely going to the people who write and pass them (city council, parks department, the state legislator from your district) and make a cogent case for distinguishing what WE do from the irresponsible, destructive behavior that OTHER people may have done that prompted the rule in the first place. Here's a start:

1. These things are electrically powered. The ban could be scaled back to cover only internal-combustion power sources, or aircraft carrying flammable liquids.

2. These things are quiet. The ban could be altered to address noise rather than flight.

3. They're also small and slow. The ban could be written to prohibit airborne objects weighing more than one pound, or traveling faster than 30 mph. The argument "if we let you do that, we have to let anybody do anything" wouldn't wash, because a rule like this would prohibit golf practice or boomerang-throwing but still allow foamies.

4. They use a very small area. If it's a park, there could be a designated area for them (say, the size of one baseball diamond, or even an actual baseball diamond that wasn't being used for baseball).

5. Emphasize how similar these are to things that are already allowed and that nobody in their right mind would complain about -- like kites, for example. I flew mine the other day in a park when there was some wind, and I went up and hovered next to some kites. The kids loved it.

6. Offer to host a field day for the park officials' kids and anybody else who might be interested. Emphasize the amazingly high "tech" and low cost of these models compared to an X-Box, for example -- plus the fact that they get the kids out of the house.

You probably won't solve the Manassas battlefield problem unless you build a foamy Taube, paint it gray, and call it a Civil War homing pigeon.

These are just ideas I'm tossing out here; no doubt you can think of a bunch more. But in terms of political acceptance and the ability to find good flying sites, the whole mini-electric thing is a revolution. R/Cers don't need to be a despised minority any more, and attitudes will change with time.

As an employee of a state legislature, I am constantly impressed with the difference that can be made by a small group of polite, well-prepared citizens who take the time to come down to the capitol building and offer their testimony. The key is not to come off as negative or angry, but to offer something positive. And be patient. Note the title of this thread: "Flying is not a crime". How many of us have seen bumper stickers reading, "Skateboarding is not a crime"? Well, it took about 10 years, but now there are skateboard parks in every major city, and Tony Hawk is a big-time entertainer. It can happen that way for us, too!

Duane Gall
RCPRO

DHG Great Post.

Please. Let's continue this area of Idea's on how to accomplish changing current laws and approaches.

Let's have more ways to make our case to the legislature, so we can all take these Plug and Play verbatium to our representives.

So should we continue with the Political portion of it here or start another thread? If some one starts another thread Please bring over/transfer DHG's and select political input.

Better Yet, DHG will you take the lead as you have proved insight into working this area???


Dennis

Hello again, I like the ideas of getting the right people to take a look at some of the laws and change them according to the hobby. I my personal experience people in the la making word do not want to be bothered with a bunch of grown men and there toys!!! I have been in the hobby for over 25 years and I have had this run in before. I totally agree that they should change laws so electric type small aircraft can be flown at parks as long as it don't cause danger to spectators. We see this as our hobby and lively hood, but allot of people look at us as big kids with there toys. Until that mental picture changes I think we are doomed to get time in front of a council to change local laws. If you have a buddy on your town council you probably stand a much better chance. I personally don't have to much problem with were i fly, allot of that is to due with i'm one of very few in my small town that actually flys planes. I just have to stay away from local schools and well populated areas. I have a small park in the town but they keep it so busy with baseball,softball, soccer and that stuff there is no way to get in there if they said it was ok. I sure hope people can get places to fly electrics, thats why they were invented as to keep the neighborhood friendly.

One person isn't going to be enough to convince lawmakers to change policy. An organized group is much more likely to make an impression.

I don't mean to sound like an ad for the AMA, but I'm reading this thread and thinking, "Jeez, these are just the kinds of situations that the AMA exists for." Now, "they" won't come in and do the work for you, but the AMA does provide you with resources to help you convince local officials that you're serious, organized, and deserve to be heard. Soccer moms get their way by whining and stomping their feet, but R/Cers are an insignifigant voting population, so you have to be professional about it. Just belonging to a national organization, being a chartered club in that organization, goes a long way in making that impression.

You may never use anything else but the AMA's image as a national organization, but if you couldn't fly in the park without getting harrassed by the cops before, and you can after becoming an AMA club, wasn't it worth the price of admission?

Just as an example, my club has had the use of county park land since the late '60s. We're the park's "favored sons" because we mow our own grass, keep the place clean, and generally don't cause trouble. The horse people are pooping all over the place, sports teams are tearing up the athletic areas, kids are trashing the playgrounds, hikers/walkers/picnicers are dumping their trash all over the place...

Well, It's not a crime YET. But if some of you keep doing what your doing, it will be.

I am a "cop", have been for almost 20 years and have been building models for more than 30. I think that ANY Officer who threatens to shoot a plane out of the air must be either the world's greatest marksman (not even considering the lack of a safe "backstop" for the spent round) or more likely just showing his immense ignorance and a misplaced and poor attempt at intimidation. Y'all just imagine the reaction I get if I pull my Raptor 50 or Formosa out of my trunk for a quick flight on my lunch break while in uniform!!!

BTW I shall choose not to describe any closer the agency I work for in an attempt not to incriminate myself (hey Chief, I was just joking about keeping r/c models in my trunk lol)!

Don't tell him.

I am also a "cop" and fly glow and electric. I don't belong to a club because well....I'm a cop and my wife is an educator....we're poor!!! But any way we were flying in a very large field on an old military base when a state trooper showed up to "talk" with us. As I looked into his car I noticed his Tower Hobbies mag on the seat and heard the comment....."man I wish I could join Ya". We offered to hand him our radio and he politely declined....he was on duty!!

Dennis,

Thank you for the vote of confidence. I would be happy to "take the lead," but Matt is right: I (we) would be reinventing the wheel. AMA has an ongoing public relations and flying site effort, including plug-and-play resources available for the asking. Probably the best thing to do is exactly what Matt suggested: Offer to help maintain the place instead of contributing to the wear & tear. One club I know of has a field on state land right now because they called the park HQ and said, "We have 20 guys planning to show up a month from next Saturday with shovels, lawnmowers, paint, and trash bags. Please make a list of what needs doing out there, and we'll do it." It's an annual event now, the only requirement for membership -- no dues, just the spring cleaning day.

Edge_Pilot,

"Grown men with toys" we may be, but the "grown men" part is at least a step in the right direction. Definitely, having a friend in city government helps. ... Also, I just happen to have some recent experience with this: Much of the open space in suburbs these days is not city-owned, but private property that's included in a planned community controlled by a homeowners' association (HOA). If you happen to live in one, the HOA board is much less formal & more approachable than a city council, and the board members are literally your neighbors. They don't have to worry about setting policy for a big, sprawling city -- only that neighborhood. So one guy walking around in the greenspace with a bag to pick up litter & dog turds in one hand and an electric foamie in the other could be a welcome sight! Just be careful or you could end up nominated for the board at their next annual meeting. [X(]

Duane Gall
RCPRO

to funny. I agree with getting flying sites opened up.I think there should be no problem with electrics flying almost anywhere. Actually i'm waiting for someone to stop me flying in my housing development. I about cause accidents when i fly in the field next to my house with all the cars stopping to stare. All my neighbors love it , so far! I hope anybody good luck on finding new fields ,but in this day and age it is really tuff. There are people out there that if someone is having fun ,you are bothering them. Don't know why? I fly foamies alot in several locations with no problems, but I understand some peoples problems completely. I also fly 40% aircraft[:@], they leave a real bad taste in peoples mouth. People think my heli's are cool, but bring out the 40% and look out. i think people should be able to have fun and do there hobby without getting the cops called. After all if more people would be in a good hobby like R/C they wouldn't be as many kids on drugs and alcohol!! Get the kids off the street and in a nice park flying electric model planes.

Maybe I'm sounding like a broken record, but the key is to ORGANIZE. Whether you do it under AMA or independently, the more you can show your local municipality that this isn't a "one-off" situation, that there are a signifigant number of people participating in this activity, that this activity is worthwhile and wholesome, that this activity can be undertaken in a safe and responsible manner, that you're an asset not an ******* (you fill in the blank ), the more likely you are to get your own space, and/or get local regulations changed.

This doesn't help matters either.

We do need to be responsible when flying and avoid flying near people. Even these little electrics can injure someone. Those little props hurt when they hit you.

I fly in my neighborhood all the time, most people just ignore me which I prefer. When the kids aren't playing in the cul-de-sac it makes a great runway and a wide open flying area.

I agree. You guys......dont think for a moment that that little electric motor cant hurt you.

I was outdoors flying my Ikarus F3A on a BP21. I came down real slow and reached out to grab it by the leading edge of the wing like I do sometimes, and the object between my ears failed for a split second and I got my thumb tip in that prop. It was running a nice sharp APC 8.6. While it just gave me a little cut, it stung like a *****. Of course it wont take a finger off like a glow plane, but it still hurts when you get a finger in one.

People automatically assume that because its a small little electric motor that it's not capable of damage. DONT BE FOOLED. Just because its tiny and quiet....doesnt mean it isnt a grumpy chihuahua.

Some of the props we are running are like little plastic steak-knives and with those brushless motors swinging them around at high rpms....well you get the picture.

I now carry a nice first-aid kit with me in my flight gear. I intend never to need it, but its also a reminder that bad things can happen.

Till next time...fly it like you stole it, and be safe.

LAWSUITS!!!!! this is why you will be kicked out of anywhere!! not noise! ever since people started suing for anything and everything the world went downhill!!!
i can remember when i could roolerblade at the mall and fly at the park and drive my cars wherever i wanted, but now its all private property. thats funny i didnt see a sign that said private paking lot when i pulled in to buy stuff!! no now they think if i fall down and scrape my knee im going to sue!! pethetic!!!!\
i was drivin my rc truck in a feild near my house for years. now they built a park there and im no longer welcome. i grew up in this feild now some dumb *$^ is telling me to leave. i dont think so!!!
as for a cop shooting down my plain............i freakin hope some stupid self rightous pompess butt trigger happy stuck on how cool he looks in uniform(not) cop (BTW this is most cops....sorry to the cops that have posted, but u know most of you are %@#holes)tells me hes going to discharge his gun at my plane. heck ill hover it for him.........becuase thats his badge!!! wont have to deal with him no more!!
dont get me wrong the world needs cops no doubt!! and there job isnt easy im sure......but dont we have better things to worry about then park flyers!!! if thats all we need to worry about maybe we should make the police force a little smaller. save some tax money that WE pay out.
dont mean to rant this is just a subject that really urks me! and we wonder why kids r doing drugs having sex ,stealing, fighting............maybe because its less of a crime then flying!!
to any cops that reed this...........hears an idea........maybe start treating people like you would like to be treated or how about how u would want your mother treated. or heck how about just pretending that were human beins!! it is r taxes that pay your bills!!
i could go on and on so ill stop.
[sm=devious.gif][sm=devious.gif][sm=devious.gif][sm=devious.gif][sm=devious.gif]
PS- there are alot of cool willing to help in any event police officers out there who put there lifes on the line for us daily! to all of those GOOD POLICE OFFICERS i salute you!!

this isnt just about flying its everything now! u cant even ride a bike at my local park without a helmet!!!!!!!!! was kicked out yesterday! and they tried to make me walk it out.......ya right good luck!!!

I must be the fortunate one to fly with basically the entire motorcycle police force here in Clovis/Fresno. Happy to say, haven't had a problem yet .

i flew the tribute in the morning and had a dog barking and chasing my plane the whole time and the owner kept saying her dog was going to have a heart attack she had to grab her dog when i landed...it just made my flight missarble i wanted to call the cops on her dog for being retarted and trying to bite my plane .... teasing the dog with the plane that was kinda fun [>:]
the more cops we get into flying the more power we have....

You have to remember, Cops don't MAKE the law, the are obligated to enforce it.. Hence, Law Enforcement and not Law Makers.

Ya just ask Rodney King, I hate most cops, I could go on forever about this but I don't care. I'm gonna fly and have fun.

You would be surprised at how willing a lot of people are to allow you to fly. Even in places you thought they would never say "Yes", just ask!

Im in Iraq. I never thought that the Force Protection guys or the Air Traffic guys for that matter, would let me fly my planes here. We have ALOT of air traffic in and out all day, helicopters and fixed wing, big and little. Finally, I went and asked. They gave me a field, about 300meters from the flight line, of all places, that I can use any time, as long as I have commo with the tower at all times. Now I take people out and teach them to fly, and let them fly the planes people have donated and sent to me and my freinds.

Police officers, hey, they arent the bad guys. They are usually just the guy/gal who had to "deliver the message". Thats all. Some get a little carried away with themselves, but most are just normal people, doin thier job.

SSG Stahr

MAYBE SOMEONE SHOULD LET THEM KNOW!!

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE