RFJ

Evan is correct. Below are scans from the January 1963 MAN. It may not show too clearly but the bottom of F-25 is very slightly Vee'd. Unfortunatelyit does not showon the fuselage side view but Evan's kit sheetingdrawing for this area clearly shows the lower sheeting for this area to have lengthwise grain with a slitdown the middle to achieve this tapering bend.

Ray

pimmnz

First pics of PCM Taurus, sorry, but the camera ain't that good...
Evan.

kingaltair

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Not wanting to "rekindle" anything, but it looks to me you have truly reconstructed the oldest Taurus on earth. It looks a lot like BOTH of the planes in the crate. You wouldn't be able to distinguish it from the "kit" Taurus with a map, (or arrows).

I will look at my Taurus plan see if I missed something. I'll try to scan in the same section of the plan for comparison. The "V" in the MAN plan is hardly perceptable, (if at all) on the side view.

CHARLES WINTER

Hi Duane and Taurus Guys, I have completed my movie of the "Detroit Invitationals" 1963, 1964, 1965. I will send a DVD to Duane for his viewing. It is 30 minutes long and I feel it is quite good. I have added some of own airplanes to the film that I designed and flew during that time frame. The 2 pictures I have added to this message were take at Korat, Thailand 1963. As I have mentioned before, I have flown Model Airplanes on almost every continent and every year with out a break since I was 14 years old. "I'm a sick puppy" Col. Chuck Winter

CHARLES WINTER

Hi Duane and Taurus Guys. I had a miss print on a date on my last message. I wrote Korat, Thailand 1963, should have been 1973. Just getting OLD and SLOW. Just added a picture of one of my Giant Scale Racers, "Tsunami". Col. Chuck Winter

Taurus Flyer

Chuck,

Because you did make a nice picture of the name of the Taurus plans for me I have a picture for you:

Titel:

and even with a deadstick always with a smile!

Picture 2, modelers can make pictures from models but also models from pictures.

Taurus Flyer

kingaltair

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Old and SLOW ...and flys a giant scale racer...that doesn't "compute" Nice picture

Duane

kingaltair

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Hi Duane and Taurus Guys, I have completed my movie of the "Detroit Invitationals" 1963, 1964, 1965. I will send a DVD to Duane for his viewing. It is 30 minutes long and I feel it is quite good. I have added some of own airplanes to the film that I designed and flew during that time frame. .........

Chuck:

I was wondering about the proposed DVD of the Detroit Invitationals yesterday...hoping you wouldn't forget. It will be great to get a copy...looking forward to it. I will provide copies to others as you suggested earlier.

"Flying uninterrupted since you were 14..." Yes I would agree that many, (outside this forum)might believe youare abit"compulsive" when it comes toaviation, but we understand. Personally I've been flying off and on since age 16, (large gaps of time outside the hobby though).

Interestingly, I competed against a currentF-15 pilot at the Knoxville SPA contest I just attended; he was flying Novice, (but won't be for long as he took first place. He gets better every time I see him). Those qualities of good hand to eye coordination serve you well in pattern competition.

Duane

rbdyni

Hello Chuck, Sorry camebetween you and Duane

Just want to showmy Dart III picture I use to fly when I was 15 years old (now 55) with Micro-Avionics and Enya 60-II, built from magazine plans flew really well landswithmain gear nose up everytime. Two Dart IIIs were built by my friend builder, one is pictured and other one had the other stripe design in the drawing, second one was alive new never flown till 1981 and I flew many times but plane gone to club memberand crashed.

Rudy

kingaltair

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I got the chance to take a detailed look at my "beat-up" original Taurus plans, and sure enough, there it was...the "V" we have been discussing; I never saw it until it "jumped out at me" in the Myer plan...maybe it is more pronounced there, (don't know). I somehow missed it when I originally built the kit.....that was 28 years ago. I know it never "registered" with me back then...I built mine flat, don't know HOW I handled the former with the "V". I have edited somewhat my earlier responses, as a discussion of the "V" doesn't add to the thread, and my claims mine didnt have one were erroneous, I'm glad to see there were not alternate versions of the kit plans, (thank goodness).

Still, the Taurus-2 has its bottom balsa running THE LENGTH OF THE BOTTOM with the grain running lengthwiserather than cross-grain. Still don't know why Ed did that as it isn't as strong.

Duane

kingaltair

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I ran the engine for the first time with the new ST carb. It DOES make the engine easier to run, however thus far I still haven't achieved a good low idle.

I added additional oil to the fuel, (but all I had was synthetic). I noticed right away that the new carb apparently adds 500-750 additional RPMwhen run at the high end with the same 11X6 wood prop as before. It is up around 11,000 -11,500 RPM at full bore. The engine doesn'tsagwhen lifted up, but DOES appear to be running somewhathot, as you can see a bit of vapor come off it immediately after running.For that reason I richened it up some so it sounds as if it's on the line betweena sub 2-stroke whine a good 2-strokesound. I will use castorin the future.

I need to continue working on the idle, but it's looking better.

Duane

CHARLES WINTER

Hi Duane and Taurus Guys, I sent you a copy of the "Detroit Invitational" movie . Take a look at it and "Critique" it. I can add more peoples names and events. I can also add pictures from this message board if people will send me a GOOD picture that I can scan. I could also add a Taurus section with pictures of the many variations of the Taurus's. A Taurus section would help future Taurus builders to have a lot of information on a DVD. This could be a lot of FUN. If anybody wants a copy of the "Detroit Invitational" (30 minutes long) all I want is the price of postage. Col. Chuck Winter

CHARLES WINTER

Hi Rudy, Thank you very much for the nice words about my Dart III airplane. It was and still is an excellent flying airplane. I lived in Japan for 2 years, 1957 and 1958. I was stationed at Chitose Air Base, Hokkaido Japan. I was flying F-86D interceptors. I was there for one year and then was transfered to Tokyo and flew C-47s, Gooney Birds. I was then transferred to Okinawa for another year and flew F86Ds and F-102s. I learned a lot in Japan, I leaned 3 Great Things, "Patience, Patience and Patience. The enclosed pictures were taken at a Control Line Contest at Chitose Air Base. It was a Japanese-American event and did VERY GOOD. Thanks again for the memories. Col. Chuck Winter

pimmnz

Don't know why you're asking who would want a copy of the DVD, better make plenty of copies, and put me down for just one of them...
Evan.

RFJ

Too rightEvan. Col Chuck- how do I get a copy and do you take PayPal for the postage costs.

Ray

sfax

Hello Taurus Flyer and other Taurus fans.
I have flown a Taurus, made from a Top Flite kit, for aprox. 16 years. It used an HB 61 engine, always at half throtIe with the standard 11-6 wooden prop.
I have enjoyed what I consider the best model I´ve ever had.
Now I´m constructing one GST (giant scale Taurus) from a Custom Cutters kit.
This larger version does not indicate any "wash in" at their wingtips. In my opinion it was avery cleaver feature in the original Top Flite kit. It was almost impossible to have a "tip stall".
Does anybody can indicate me the original wash-in and how many ribs are twisted down at the wing tips?.
Thanks in advance.
Very, very interesting forum !!
Sfax

Taurus Flyer

Sfax,

The original Taurus does not have twisted ribs down as far as I know.
The thick arfoil is the reason tipstall is nearly impossible, also the low weight of the Taurus.
My own Taurus is 9,5 lbs and still it is a problem to start a spin.

What you say: "I have enjoyed what I consider the best model I´ve ever had." You are not the only one!!!!!

Picture 1 of my Taurus in the past with the first engine HB
Picture 2 same plane now with MVVS
Succes with the Giant Scale Taurus, 6th example of Taurus drawings I think?

Cees

CHARLES WINTER

Hi Taurus Guys, Subject: "Detroit Invitational" movie. If you want a copy (DVD) send me your mailing address e-mail or on the message board and I will send you a copy. When you get it, check what the postage was and send the amount back to me. A check or money order. I don't have PayPal. Col. Chuck Winter

kingaltair

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Thanks Chuck-I'm really looking forward to it.

We will be having aSenior Pattern Association contest, (SPA) in mid-July. I lookforward to showing it as a special attraction at a pre-contest party at my house the Friday night before.

I know this sounds a little "spur of the moment", but why don't you plan on jumping on a plane and attending as my honored guest for the weekend and narrate it personally; (after all, you only live once).

Duane

kingaltair

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Success . Last evening a freind and I did the fine tuning on the new G-series SuperTigre carb ordered for the vintage ST .56 engine. What a difference!!! We now have a reliable idle, and a much faster transition betwen idle and full throttle settings. The engine runs like "a champ", and I feel much better about flying it with this carb. Addition of the new ST carb, (that fits current and vintage ST engines .40-.56) is definitely the way to go.

I originally felt the new carb added a few hundred RPMs, (up from 10,500 on an 11X6 wood prop to over 11,000), but it appears I may have had it a bit too lean. RPMs are now back down to about 10,500, with the engine running slightly rich on the verge of a strong 2-cycle "whine". I believe the engine will lean-out further in the air, so the slightly rich setting makes allowance for this.

We're about ready for detailed TRIM flights to get the Taurus-2 back to prime flying condition. As I said before, the plane will only be flown under good weather/wind conditions.

I have asked SPA president and expert pilot Bruce Underwood to conduct a demonstration flight to put the Taurus-2 through its paces at the upcoming Asheville SPA contest July 18-19. I'm looking forward to a great demonstration, and a new video.

Duane

kingaltair

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SIMLA PROJECT UPDATE:

Just a quick note to bring everybody up to date on the Simla project. Jeff Petroski and his wife are currently on a well-deserved vacation in Aruba. Before he left we discussed some of the steps and goals for the project that we wanted to achieve:

1) The wing drawing and CAD filesare now essentially complete,

2) Preliminary drawings of the fuselage outline are underway, and three options have been presented earlier, (POSTS 1693 and 1699 on page 68). We invite those of you who haven't as yet to make comments and vote on the three drawings. (Andy...if you'd like to contribute a drawing based on the measurements Burkhard made and you own "trained eye", this would be a good time).

3) Once Jeff returns, the most difficult challenge of determining the final outline for the fuselage will be decided. Remember that Ed originally built the Simla WITHOUT FORMAL DRAWINGS ...there are NO drawings or sketches of any kind to refer to, so we must essentially CREATE the fuselage side view with Burhard's measurements and our best judgement. We can't simply draw what we would like it tolook likebecause when all is said and done, the Simla must look like ED'S SIMLA. We are creating something that MUST look like a photograph when the final model is viewed and photographed from the same angle. This puts aspecial 'twist" on this project, and makes it unique. It's not just a new design...it's creating a design that LOOKS like the original. We need to take our time because of this unique challenge. Due to the camera angle, Burkhard's VERTICAL measurementsMAY be a bit less than we think they shoud be. Weinclude two of the attachedpictures taken at the 1965 NATS, plus one morephoto where both Ed and the photographer are lower to the ground to illustrate the point. The camera is approximately the same heightas the plane, and the plane appears "taller" These are examples of how camera angle can play tricks on us when we take measurements from different camera angles rather than directly on. Even the extreme front and rear of the TOP VIEW we used to get most of the measurements are probably just a little distorted.

4) We are hoping for a mid-late fall completion date for Simla plans, andif plans don't change, Jeff may want to produce a kit of the Simla after prototypes are built and test-flown.

Duane

kingaltair

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Chuck;

I hardly know where to begin!!!

The overall critique I would make is that ANYONE with a sense of history about the planes and personalities involved in early R/C Pattern would find this video an ABSOLUTE TREASURE!! It brings these early pioneers of pattern back to life...we see them again...in their R/C prime...flying their now CLASSIC designs. You probably didn't think in terms of capturing history when you took these home movies; it was probably a fun thing to do to shoot these movies with the idea of reliving these particular events for home viewing. What you did however was to record history; I'm pretty certain you have documented thesepattern pilotsand their planes in footage that very few,(if ANY) others have captured...if other movies of the era exist I certainly don't know about it. You see Hal De Bolt, Jim Kirkland, Ed Kazmirski, Howard Thombs, Tom Brett, and Don Lowe, just to mention those I recognized on my first viewing. I also enjoyed a static look of many now-famous aircraft as they sat on the ground, then seeing many of them take to the sky. Most of these I've only seen "still" pictures of; it was "cool" to see them move.

The video reminds me some of the 15 minute 1963 World Championships clip from Belgium that Cees pointed us to back at the beginning of this thread...only in more detail, better quality, and more meaningful to me personally.

On a personal note, it was like a "TIME WARP" back to the 18 Mile and Mound Rd field of the RCCD, again bringing those yearly events back to life along with all the club members I recognized. Not wanting to be overly dramatic, but there were a few times I nearly had tears in my eyes as a whole flood of memories came back from the time when I was a very impressionable early teen. I remember the big barn near the 18 Mile Rd entrance, and the (seemingly) long drive to the field. It was a real "blast from the past" for me personally.

During the event itself back then, I was on the other side of the spectator barrier, so it was interesting to see things from the "other side" as pilots, (close up) prepared, taxied out, and flew their planes. I had forgotten about, what seems to me now to be bordering on reckless competitions they had such as the "LIMBO", "MOSTSPINS", and even "COMBAT" with streamers. I could hardly belive that Tom Brett would tie a streamer to his classic Perigee, with the possibility of some other guy with a prop rotating at 10,000 RPM getting within 50-75 feet of it while trying to cut the streamer.

The absolute highlights for me personally were the footage of Tom Brett andhis Perigee, the TBX-1 static and areal footage, Jim Kirkland and the Beachcomber, (and my very favorite), Ed Kazmirski fueling up the Taurus-2....the plane I am now part owner of. Itfelt very strange to "double-check" what I saw on the screen by going out in the garage and checking the pilot figure to make certain it was indeed the Taurus-2, (taper-wing with straight trailing edge, and symmetrical wing). It was just amazing to me that after all this time I couldown one of the planes I saw in the video; even my wife picked up on the significance of that.

Chuck....I predict you are going to become a very popular guy in a very short time as people learn about this video. Thank you very much for letting me be the first to see it. As a suggestion, I'd add a few more names to the groups of peoplefurther onin the video to help us identify them under different conditions. If you have more footage, I'd certainly recommend you put it into a second video.

Thanks again. I'm going to share this with VR/CS and SPA members who should find your video amazing, extremely interesting, and something they will probably want to have. I'll help you copy and distribute them as needed.

Duane

pimmnz

Ooooh, yes I think I feel the need...Duane? (I know it's a long way, but...)Evan.

kingaltair

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Everyone;

I've had the pleasure of talking to Chuck by phone a couple times about the DVD. The "rough" version I received the other day was still very nicely done, and from what Chuck tells me he is going to add to the final version , it will be even better.

Chuck told me he has heard from several of you, and will be sending the DVDs out soon.

Chuck....Did you ever think about doing a "voiceover' narration as an experiment?

Duane

CHARLES WINTER

Hi Duane, I hope to narrate this film in the future. My PLATE is FULL and I belong to too many organizations. I've given up sleeping but not eating. I posted a few pictures that may not be considered "SPA" but it was part of the growing era of Pattern Flying. These pictures were taken in Oregon, 1971. It shows Dr. Ralph Brooks with his "Crusader" and me with my Dart IV. Dr. Brooks was one of the BIG names in pattern flying. Col. Chuck Winter