Notices
Foamies! - RC Electric Foam Aircraft Discuss rc foamie electrics here (i.e. Zagi, Tazz, ProJeti, wingo)

F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Old 08-15-2004, 08:17 PM
  #101  
Silver182
My Feedback: (2)
 
Silver182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 1,095
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

ORIGINAL: Wayne Miller

Hi Silver182,

The 9X9 prop may be a little too much for your ESC, unless your geared properly. You may want to down load Motocalc and run the figures through, its free for 30 days.

A good prop to start with is the "square ended" prop that comes with the kit. Note, the orange GWS props are not quite as efficient as the othe props and you may have to prop down to 8X4 or so with an APC.

Typically I install a prop on a park flyer, give full throttle with the nose up, and I expect it to just lift itself or better.

Someplace on RCU I've publish the the control surface movements that worked well for me.

Hope this helps.

Wayne Miller
Hello Wayne,
Well, I tried the 9X9E APC prop with the standard Formosa gears, motored with a 400 brush-less using the Phoenix 25 controller.... I was surprised, the flight lasted about 12-13 mins most of which was at full power. Speed was very surprising, I stayed with a ZDZ 60 powered Topflight P-51 during the whole flight. I did slow up for four or five T&G's. The controller showed no signs of quiting. NOTE: My flying field is 5,480 MSL and OAT was about 75 degrees... so that would put the density alt. somewhere above 6,500 MSL ... so maybe that reduced the load factor on the motor??? Anyway the performance was amazing, the P-51 pilot was pissed..... a $300.00 dollar foamy flying along with him flat out, and also in vertical performance.
Lee H. DeMary
AMA 36099
Old 08-15-2004, 08:50 PM
  #102  
Trogdor the Burninator
Senior Member
 
Trogdor the Burninator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

ORIGINAL: Silver182
Anyway the performance was amazing, the P-51 pilot was pissed..... a $300.00 dollar foamy flying along with him flat out, and also in vertical performance.
HAHA, that's funny! Although he got the wrong kinda plane if he wanted really fast... but funny nonetheless...
Old 08-15-2004, 10:02 PM
  #103  
Wayne Miller
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DrumboOntario, CANADA
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Hi,

Sounds like the propeller is the right one for your flying field. Its a fun plane when things go well - enjoy!

Fly4Fun,

Wayne
Old 08-16-2004, 06:28 PM
  #104  
Silver182
My Feedback: (2)
 
Silver182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 1,095
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

ORIGINAL: Trogdor the Burninator

ORIGINAL: Silver182
Anyway the performance was amazing, the P-51 pilot was pissed..... a $300.00 dollar foamy flying along with him flat out, and also in vertical performance.
HAHA, that's funny! Although he got the wrong kinda plane if he wanted really fast... but funny nonetheless...
Yep, it even gets funner.... he tried with no luck to turn my foamy into packing popcorn... tried to fly right through me..... but no way a 20 plus pound airplane can out maneuver a 16oz speed demon. We landed together and he wasn't done yet.... tried to taxi right through me.....well I just hit the throttle and away I went... He was finished and almost out of fuel!! We had a great time...
Lee
Old 08-17-2004, 06:03 AM
  #105  
darrell_f
Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: c, FL
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

I spent about a week finishing my new Formosa with a Himax 2025-4200 and 3S li-poly. I was so confident that this would be an easy to fly plane, that I went ahead and did full paint and detail trim before maiden. Looked great! That was a mistake as I was tempting fate. My wife told me that I should take photos, before I did the first flight. Well the maiden went very badly for me. I only made one circuit of field before I put it into ground nose first; it was so quick that I didn’t even start trim adjustments. AUW was at 19 oz. The center of gravity was set per instructions (about 95 mm back from leading edge of wing, measured at fuselage). Aileron and rudder throws per instructions, and elevator at 60% of instructions. Every time I touched the aileron control, the plane nosed down like I was giving full down elevator (tip stall?). I was flying at no more than ½ throttle and it looked fast enough as I could gain some altitude back. I managed to keep it in the air for three turns, but on the fourth I needed to turn tighter to miss a tree. Made a one point landing with that one. The fuselage from trailing edge to front got cracked and smashed. I’ve repaired with balsa and CF inside and it’s ugly, but probably stronger than original. I don’t know what to adjust or correct before I try again. Any suggestions?
Old 08-18-2004, 05:16 AM
  #106  
poof
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Danbury, CT
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

ORIGINAL: darrell_f

I spent about a week finishing my new Formosa with a Himax 2025-4200 and 3S li-poly. I was so confident that this would be an easy to fly plane, that I went ahead and did full paint and detail trim before maiden. Looked great! That was a mistake as I was tempting fate. My wife told me that I should take photos, before I did the first flight. Well the maiden went very badly for me. I only made one circuit of field before I put it into ground nose first; it was so quick that I didn’t even start trim adjustments. AUW was at 19 oz. The center of gravity was set per instructions (about 95 mm back from leading edge of wing, measured at fuselage). Aileron and rudder throws per instructions, and elevator at 60% of instructions. Every time I touched the aileron control, the plane nosed down like I was giving full down elevator (tip stall?). I was flying at no more than ½ throttle and it looked fast enough as I could gain some altitude back. I managed to keep it in the air for three turns, but on the fourth I needed to turn tighter to miss a tree. Made a one point landing with that one. The fuselage from trailing edge to front got cracked and smashed. I’ve repaired with balsa and CF inside and it’s ugly, but probably stronger than original. I don’t know what to adjust or correct before I try again. Any suggestions?
I currently have a mpjet 25/35-20 4:1 with a 9 x 4.7apc-e prop, phoenix-25 esc with 3s li-poly I have noticed that the absolute minimum flying speed is maybe a hair under half throttle and you can't take a turn with out loosing altitude. but from 3/4-full throttle it flies great. It will still loose altitude in turns. Mix in some up elevator if needed. My plane when launched will maintain what ever angle I hand launch it at in an absolute straight line at full throttle

I too crashed my plane two days ago. I had the controller setup for a different plane whhich has the elevator controls reversed. and needless to say when I launched the Formosa I pulled back on the stick and nosed it in to the ground breaking the nose in around 8 pieces from the middle of the wing forward. I gathered all the pieces and put it back together that night with CA and two pieces of balsa inside for strength. I flew it yesterday and it flew just about the same as before.
Old 08-18-2004, 07:10 AM
  #107  
Wayne Miller
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DrumboOntario, CANADA
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Hi,

I had published the control surface movement that worked best for me back in post number 41, anything more is too sensitive for me. The CG has also been discussed in several of the posts.

You should set the plane up as suggested for your first flight until you get used to it. Too much movement on the surfaces can be difficult for the first few flights.

Hope this helps.

Fly4Fun,

Wayne Miller
Old 08-18-2004, 12:41 PM
  #108  
darrell_f
Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: c, FL
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Thank you both for your comments.

I had read all the posts but missed that you have provided control throws. You really cut them down. Your post was:

Elevator:
Low Rate: 10mm up & down Expo set at 25%
High Rate: 15mm up and down Expo set at 50%

Aileron
Low Rate: 10mm up & down Expo set at 50%
High Rate: 20mm up and down Expo set at 75%

Thats about only about 1/3 of recommended. After the repairs, I had changed to 60%, but I need to drop down some more and plan on more throttle. I knew that the Formosa was a fast plane, but had read several reviews that said that it handled very well at slow speed also. Until I get this plane trimmed, I also need to get to a bigger field. At 3/4 throttle, I need more than a soccer field.
Old 08-18-2004, 01:12 PM
  #109  
Wayne Miller
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DrumboOntario, CANADA
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Hi Darrell_F,

I think you'll find the throws I suggested will be agressive but comfortable. When flying for the first time, try taking off from the ground. If you hand launch (I do), make sure you launch straight and level with enough speed so the plane is flying when it leaves your hand. DO NOT launch with the plane in a climbing attitude or it will stall.

Try to keep the plane going away from you and control movements at a minimum until you get "three mistakes" high.

Let me know how you make out.

Good Luck!!!

Fly4Fun,

Wayne Miller
Old 09-02-2004, 04:00 AM
  #110  
ashleyhall
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Somerset, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Anyone still on this thread? I have the Formosa just built and need some advice!!

Hoping I can wake up this thread!

Cheers, Ash
Old 09-02-2004, 09:49 AM
  #111  
Trogdor the Burninator
Senior Member
 
Trogdor the Burninator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Well, my advice is don't crash three times in one day as I did last week... It held together (WOW! last mods worked! The motor stayed on! EPOXY is great)but that last one that skittered along the ground because I was too slow cutting the throttle finally made me stop flying! Its got cracks all over... Oh, a piece of packing tape around the fuse right behind the wing will keep it from busting there pretty good.
Old 09-02-2004, 04:59 PM
  #112  
ashleyhall
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Somerset, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Hi there!!

Glad to see someones still around!!

Some questions relating to the stock setup...

- I'm running the GWS350, standard gearbox, 900mah NIMH, ICS480 Speed Controller, the larger standard prop 1080, the plane doesn't climb vertically at all, it won't even loop, and will climb at best at around 40degrees, is there anything I can do to improve this performance without major expense?

- I've just bought a LiPoly 2cell charger, think I got a good deal, take a look:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...e=STRK:MEWN:IT
Not knowing much about LiPoly's, is this adequate for charging, and for this model, what spec LiPoly/Lithium Ion pack should I look at? Can I use such a battery it my stock motor?

- I'm looking to get the Corsair, but worried that it'll be similar in performance, or lacking should I say - although the kit is a little lighter, any tips on how to lighten the Corsair a little more, and taking into account the fact that its mostly foam, is there much to remove anyway?

Appreciate your help!

Cheers, Ash
Old 09-03-2004, 02:55 AM
  #113  
ashleyhall
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Somerset, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Also, with the Corsair would a 3 blade prop help the plane to fly a little quicker, or would it simply slow the motor?
Old 09-03-2004, 06:15 PM
  #114  
Trogdor the Burninator
Senior Member
 
Trogdor the Burninator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Hmmm, well without going brushless which is awesome! (Just flew my repaired Formosa today and its just great!) I think the biggest problem you have is the batteries. I started with Lipoly so when I finally tried nimhs (an 8 cell KAN1050 pack at about 6 ish ounces) I couldn't believe what a pig that Fomosa became, even on my newer brushless formosa... With a 2 cell lipo that can take a 9 amp current draw comfortably, the plane flies nicely otherwise stock, not too much vertical but some and loops etc easy.. with the heavy round cells its just too heavy. I really like the gws 9070 prop with the 350 and B gearbox.. best bang for the buck I think... umm, that charger is probably fine for any 2 cell you just have to figure out what the charge rate is, probably pretty low so itll take a long time to charge, but itll work...you may have to solder up some connectors for your battery packs tho.

You can also try like a KAN650 round cell, which is smaller and lighter, to maybe offset the weight problem a bit but since you started lipo, get one in the 1200-1500 or so mah range with a 10C discharge rate or greater. You'll be pleasantly surprised and when you think there's nothing more you can do with your 45 dollar Formosa, invest ina brushless and be wowed yet again!

ummm, I haven't really tried 3 blade props but I've read that they are generally less efficient. However, I do recall at least one mention of someone having good luck on an electric with a 3-blade prop. Experiment and let us know!
Old 09-05-2004, 08:33 AM
  #115  
ashleyhall
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Somerset, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Hi thanks for your reply! Sounds like I'm going to have to start saving the pennies then!!

I'll keep you updated!

Cheers, Ash
Old 11-16-2004, 06:29 PM
  #116  
airmann
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lake Mary, FL
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Starting to build my Formosa SG and looking for comments on my proposed flight components:


Himax Outrunner 2812-0850
Phoenix 25 ESC
Naro +F BB servos
Berg 5ch reciever
11.1 volt ETEC 1700MAH Lipoly

Comments?

Also, what size prop should I be looking at? Am I forgeting anything else?


Thanks - Jeff
Old 11-17-2004, 05:45 AM
  #117  
ashleyhall
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Somerset, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Actually, on this subject - we tested recently something that we knew would eventually blow...but it was worth a go! I plugged a 11.1 Lipo in conjunction with the standard GWS 350 motor, it flew like a DREAM!...for 5 minutes, then burnt out - so I'm now looking for a suitable 400 speed motor that will withstand the voltage, and I'm sure it'll be the perfect package - believe me you need no more speed than that combination, and in terms of weight, its perfect!

Let me know how you get on!
Old 12-29-2004, 11:07 PM
  #118  
electron
My Feedback: (1)
 
electron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Inola, OK
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Not sure if much of anyone is still reading this thread anymore, but I fly with a MPJet AC 25/25-26 Mk. 2 5 to 1 gear box and a 3 cell Lithium Polymer 1500 with a 9x6 prop this setup is good for airplanes up to about 20oz well my Formosa weighed in at 13.2 oz wet so needless to say I have unlimted vertical with almost a 2-1 thrust ratio and flight times over 10 minutes...

I Love the plane a it's lot a fun to fly... I have also set it up with dual rates and the plane will hoover at high rates.. To me there isn't a better all around plane then the Formosa for under 50 bucks....
Old 12-30-2004, 12:05 AM
  #119  
Nahm
Junior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Kamloops, BC, CANADA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

We just Tried to fly my buddies formosa with a Himax HG2015-5466 brushless, Castle Creations 25 amp ESC, Kokam 1500 mah HO 3S Lipoly, on an APC 11 x 4.75 prop.

Felt like it had lots of power while holding it vertical at full throttle, but once in the air it cut out at 3/4 throttle and was a dog under 1/2 throttle.

Any suggestions on the cut out? Could we be over propped or is the battery output to low maybe or ??????

Nahm
Old 12-30-2004, 01:39 AM
  #120  
electron
My Feedback: (1)
 
electron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Inola, OK
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Yea it's your speed control setting, I use castle ESC's as well and they are great. I think the solution for you is to either get a bigger battery, change prop size or change the auto cutoff feature on the ESC. What is happening is the current draw past 3/4, is drawing to much power and your BEC on the ESC for the reciever gets to low so it cuts off power to the motor. You can disable this feature but then you risk lowering your voltage to the point that the servos and receiver don't function as they should.

The best fixes are to get a higher current battery if you like that prop.. Like a 2100 or better.. Or drop the prop size of course you give up thrust when you do that, but a 10x4.7 or a 9x6 should still give you good vertical with that setup.

I went with a much lighter and less current hungrey brushless setup so I could run a lighter 1500 pack. I have found the lighter the better with these electrics.. Sure you can put a larger engine but then it takes more battery, so in the end all you do is add wing loading. With mine I can soar with power off and land soft, because with light wing loading a plane will always float better.
Old 12-31-2004, 08:27 PM
  #121  
electron
My Feedback: (1)
 
electron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Inola, OK
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

I went with the MPJet AC 25/25-26 Brushless Motor with 5:1 Gearbox running a 9x6 prop.... Great setup for this plane and it's under 60.00 for that brushless motor gear box setup at hobby-lobby http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless_mpjet.htm

I use a PHOENIX-10 ESC which is also under 60.00, the combo is perfect they are both rated at about 15 amp surge although with a 9x6 I have never seen more then 10 amps pulled so a good 1500 li-poly pack makes the setup complete, so for under 160.00 I have a complete brushless setup including the battery and this setup gives 10 minute plus flights and thats with me which I do a lot of 3D so a gental flyer would probably get closer to 20 minute flights on this setup..

Hope this helps all those thinking of getting a Formosa...
Old 01-01-2005, 07:49 AM
  #122  
ashleyhall
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Somerset, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

I'm using the Tsunami 10 ESC which I understand is the same as the Pheonix but a smaller version, but it says its rated for 10, and no more? I'd love to use my 3s lipo with it, but I'm dead on 10.5amps using a 2s at full power with my 9x6 prop!!

Can I push it a little more?
Old 01-01-2005, 03:31 PM
  #123  
electron
My Feedback: (1)
 
electron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Inola, OK
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

I know my pheonix is rated at 10 amps constant and 15 amps surge for 30 seconds. Not sure about your's though if it say's no more than 10 amps maybe it's really more like a 7 amp constant and 10 amp surge ESC controller.. In that case I wouldn't push it past 10...
Old 01-09-2005, 12:43 AM
  #124  
fishnstk
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

My set p withe the Formosa as follows. 25 amp castle creations brushless speed control, E-flite brushless 400 the GWS gear box. and Electrifly 1500 mah 11.1V Lipo battery. The plane goes straight up from the ground to about 400 feet and still wanting more. All I can say is WOW what a set up. The plane will do just about everything you can put it thru. All I can say is, try it you will like it. Gary
Old 01-10-2005, 12:01 PM
  #125  
Nahm
Junior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Kamloops, BC, CANADA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: F3A Formosa ARF Park Flyer GWS

Found the answer to the cutout problem with the Himax 2125, Castle Creations 25 ESC, and 1500 Kokam 3S3P setup. It was the ESC setup. Castle creations has what they call a Pheonix link. You connect it to a USB cable and plug into your computer and it allows you to custom set the parameters.
We reset the cuttout voltage to 8.2 volts and the result is full throttle again. We hooked a Super Wattmeter to the setup and measured the voltages. This meter is indispensible for seting up combinations.
The aiplane handles well and is capable of unlimited manuevers, flight time at consurvative throttle is around 15 minutes.

Nahm

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.