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Brushless F-27 Stryker

Old 02-25-2005, 11:19 PM
  #26  
Pyrock
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Whew! I felt like a woosy when the motor and 7x6 prop combo scared the ***** out of me!! In fact, the prop came flying off because I didn't tighten it all the way. I guess my fear was justified. Anyway, I use a Futaba 9CHP so there's plenty of mixing. To tell you the truth, I'm using the same set up as my Superflea. The radio just had a choice for elevon mixing so I clicked on it then BOOM, it was mixed properly. All I had to do was adjust the dual rates and end points to where I like them. In fact, I think my rates are a bit aggressive by the looks of the elevon throws. I may tame then down a bit now that I have stick time with the stock Stryker.
Old 02-26-2005, 03:01 PM
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Merkaba
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Hear lots of talk about this plane. It looks damn good at least! I might have to break down and get one. maybe soup it up later with the help of you electric nuts!
Old 02-26-2005, 05:12 PM
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toomunsch
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

come over to the dark side...
Old 02-26-2005, 07:23 PM
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Pyrock
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

I just got back from flying my stock Styker. Only crashed once trying to do a role too low. I broke the nose off then threw it back into the air. She flew a little tail heavy but she still few like a champ. I actually fly it better than my Superflea. I could have actually flown the brushless if I used tape for a canopy but decided to wait for more flight experience. I realized that the Stryker is actually easier to fly when cruising around at half throttle. I think I'll be in for a surprise with the brushless.
Old 02-26-2005, 10:02 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

You really want the Stryker to scream, then run a 16/15/5 on 4S1P TP-2100 (the narrow ones - in two packs of 2S1P on behind the other, wired in parallel with a harness) with a 7 x 4. It gives 36 oz of thrust, 19K RPM, and 72 mph tip speed, or go back to a 6 x4 and get 82 mph tip speed but will a little less thrust. The only downside is that it will be drawing about 27 amps which is above the continuous amp draw rating of those cells, so you have to use some throttle management to keep from puffing them.

When you blip the throttle in the pits, the snarling sound sure gets everyone's attention. Once in the air, it will go vertical until you can't see it [X(]

I ran it that way for a few flights, but didn't like the added weight of the fourth cell - the plane lost its ability to glide and landed very hot, so I went back to 3S1P and a Mega 16/15/4 with the APC 6 x 4e prop. That combination has proved to be a good all around set up on two other planes I fly that are of similar weight/speed.

Once you go brushless, you will never go back.

FoamCrusher
Old 02-26-2005, 11:05 PM
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Merkaba
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Damn you guys you are all making my mouth water. I've never flown electric, and Im just now starting back flying after about 12 years of little flight time. But I'm not scared. I'm gonna make a seperated thread elsewhere but does anyone know anything about the old alienator. I saw some footage of it and i like it. Is there any newer version or similar forward swept wing plane? (gasser is ok). Thanks.

damn, you just cant beat 170 dollars for this stryker deal, even if it is a bit weak out of the box.
Old 02-26-2005, 11:19 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

I'm debating whether to use the 7x6 prop or a 6x5.5 prop with my 16/25/4 Mega. Today, I tested out the 7x6 prop by putting the Stryker on it's tail and went full throttle. The only thing keeping it from taking off vertical was the palm of my hand on the nose. It was a trip holding it down with the palm of my had about 2 feet from the floor. It was like a magic trick.
Old 02-26-2005, 11:28 PM
  #33  
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

My buddy has a BL Striker using the Multiplex 480-4D, 3S 2500mah Tanics, Multiplex 27A ESC and he was using a 6x4 APC.

Performance was very impressive in my opinion, but he was having problems coming up against the high amp limit cutout at full throttle. I let him have a spare Zagi 5x5. The amps went down and the top speed went up noticably, with only a slight loss in low speed thrust.

If I had more room in the hanger, I would run out and buy one of these sweet little planes for myself.
Old 02-26-2005, 11:51 PM
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toomunsch
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Pyrock - I sent you a pm with a Motocalc chart attached so you can see the approximate effects of different props. This data suggests near stock performance with the 6X5.5 on 3 cells, so it seems the 7X6 would be a better choice if you want more. Let me know if you got the chart - never tried sending one before.
Old 02-27-2005, 12:08 AM
  #35  
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker


ORIGINAL: Merkaba

damn, you just cant beat 170 dollars for this stryker deal, even if it is a bit weak out of the box.

It is even cheaper if you make one out of parts. That way you can use what you have - like servos, RX and ESC and also not have to buy their cheap Tx. Their servos are not the best quality either.

The only problem is that HZ is out of the fuse until mid March, but your LHS may have them. I put together two that way and the total cost is under $60 for the airframe.

FoamCrusher
Old 02-27-2005, 12:38 AM
  #36  
toomunsch
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

FoamCrusher - You seem to have experience with the brushless swap and I'm in the middle of my first one and have a few questions. My stock motor has a slight angle to it when viewed from above - is this an intentional thrust angle or just factory slop? Do you recommend any aileron diff for this setup? I know there are prohibitions regarding breaking the sound barrier and causing sonic booms in domestic airspace - If I do this how much time will I get? I just fired up the motor and it sounds quite wicked. I put the Sonic Combat Module on a momentary switch and it works great!
Old 02-27-2005, 01:29 AM
  #37  
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker


ORIGINAL: toomunsch

FoamCrusher - You seem to have experience with the brushless swap and I'm in the middle of my first one and have a few questions.
I have done a few - like about 8, so if that makes me an "expert" I guess I am. I really like the 16/15/4 as a drop in replacement for a direct drive Speed 400 size application. When powered with 10-cell packs of 1400 -1650 NiMH's (good), 3SXP 2100 mAh or better lipos (better) or 12-cell packs of GP-1100's (great but not much duration) that combination with a prop between 5 x 5 and 6.3 x 4 makes IMHO the best brushless conversion package. Which of the above cells and prop you use depends upon how fast the airframe can go without using all your electrons to heat up the atmosphere because of too much drag.

ORIGINAL: toomunsch
My stock motor has a slight angle to it when viewed from above - is this an intentional thrust angle or just factory slop?
Yes, the factory motor mount has a bit of compensation built into it. Part of the angle is because the fuse tapers toward the aft end, but part of it is to give the plane some down thrust. In a tractor style plane you angle the motor down and to the right to counteract the torque and thrust of the motor so the plane does not pitch up (because of the sudden change in thrust) and to the left( to counteract the plane from trying to rotate rather than the prop). In a pusher, the motor thrust angle still has to be down but now the prop is on the other end of the motor so the back of the motor (the end facing toward the front of the plane) must be angled down. There really should be some right angle (the back end of the shaft - again the part facing toward the front of the plane) but I have never put in any and the plane flies fine. The same is true on pusher type flying wings like a Zagi, Wing Warrior or Unicorn. My Unicorn has the same 16/15/4 and it has about 5 degrees of down thrust built into the motor mount.

BTW, the Mega will not drop right into the Stryker motor mount. The ring of the mount is too small by a about 0.10 inch, and the Mega is shorter than the Speed 400 so it doesn't go all the way into the forward most ring. What I did was to cut the aft ring (the one nearest the prop) put the motor in and then CA a piece of 0.25 x 0.007 carbon fiber tape to the outside of the ring at its new diameter and make a new ring out of the CF tape to hold the end that doesn't get held by the other ring. It held in some pretty bad vertical landings on my first Stryker so I did the same thing on my GenII fuse.

ORIGINAL: toomunsch
Do you recommend any aileron diff for this setup?
I have tried to read up on this, but found no definitive answer. When I asked the question on the forum, I didn't get any answer I thought I could trust, so I didn't program any into my Stryker, Unicorn or S&B Me162 Komet, which all are delta designs. They all seem to fly just fine without the diff. If you try it and it works better, please let me know.

ORIGINAL: toomunsch

I know there are prohibitions regarding breaking the sound barrier and causing sonic booms in domestic airspace - If I do this how much time will I get? I just fired up the motor and it sounds quite wicked. I put the Sonic Combat Module on a momentary switch and it works great!
If you think a 16/15/4 sounds good, try a 16/15/5 on 4S1P and you will think it will break warp 10

FoamCrusher
Old 02-27-2005, 02:06 AM
  #38  
toomunsch
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Thanks for the info - On the thrust angle issue, my motor actually slightly angles toward the left side of the plane. Do you think that is detrimental / should I adjust it so it vectors straight ahead? I really don't want to experiment with this right now - I just want a successful maiden voyage. This is turning into a disease. God help us all
Old 02-27-2005, 10:23 AM
  #39  
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

ORIGINAL: toomunsch
On the thrust angle issue, my motor actually slightly angles toward the left side of the plane. Do you think that is detrimental / should I adjust it so it vectors straight ahead?
If you mean an imaginary line through the shaft points to the left of the nose, then yes, you do need to adjust the motor mount holes so that imaginary line is at least pointing parallel to the center line axis of the airframe. Don't worry about the down angle as that is built into the motor mount.

You can do this by unscrewing the four motor mount screws from the bottom, remove them and redrill the holes in the foam (or egg out the existing holes enough) so that the aft end of the mount is square with the trailing edge. Don't worry about it moving back since when you tighten the screws back down, the mount will sandwich the foam so tightly it can't move.

While doing this, you might also want to put some reinforcing under the mount to spread the loads during a crash. My first airframe had to be replaced when a very hard crash caused the whole area around the mount to tear out. A whole section about 6" square ripped out of the plane. I did glue it back, but it looked terrible and I did not trust how strong it might be. Bidirectional fiberglass tape (like strapping tape but the FG strands run in a cross hatched design) laid top and bottom and from fin to fin really stiffens up that area. I found that tape at Office Max and Staples.

When you convert to brushless and lipos, don't forget to remove the factory supplied nose weight - you won't need it. The weight is just a large sheet metal screw they jam up into a hole in the bottom of the nose cone. A long thin needle nose plier can get it out.

With the Mega a 2/3 throttle launch is all you need. Things happen too fast for me at full throttle, and the plane is so over powered that 2/3 is all you need. Good Luck!! [8D]

FoamCrusher
Old 02-27-2005, 01:25 PM
  #40  
Pyrock
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Toomunsch,

Thanks for the PM. I haven't downloaded it yet but I will soon.

On a separate note, I TRIED MY BRUSHLESS Stryker!!!! After taking the stocker out for two batteries, I finally had the courage to take out the brushless...we dont need no stinkin canopies!! I used duct tape to make a temporary canopy. It took a couple of tries to launch it because I was a bit wimpish due to the humming 7X6 prop next to my hand. After 2-3 belly flops, I finally gave it close to full throttle and WOooosh....up she went. Before I go on, realize that this is only the second plane I've flown and probably only my 10th flying session and probably my 4th time with a Stryker. I started with a few counter clockwise circuts around the field then finally took her vertical!!! Scared the shiat out of me because I almost lost sight of it. I cut the throttle and glided it back in then did a few more conservative loops, figure eights and the like. I had to adjust the trim to compensate for the torque but now she's all set. Not one crash during the 15-20 minute flight and the battery was not even warm. I think a 4 cell would do the trick with a 7x7 prop but I need more practice.
Old 02-27-2005, 02:13 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker


ORIGINAL: Pyrock

It took a couple of tries to launch it because I was a bit wimpish due to the humming 7X6 prop next to my hand. After 2-3 belly flops, I finally gave it close to full throttle and WOooosh....up she went. ...... I think a 4 cell would do the trick with a 7x7 prop but I need more practice.
Pyrock:

You said earlier that you were using a Mega 16/15/4 and 3S1P Thunder Power 2100's. Watch how you prop that motor or you will puff those expensive cells [X(] They will only take about 8C ( 17amps) continuous current or they suffer a much shortened life. I know the factory says they will do 10C (21 amps) and they will....but the cell life is probably cut by about half. They will hold about 15C (about 30 amps) but only for periods of less than 20 seconds. All this is with lots of air flow to keep the cells cool. When they hit about 150F, the die a quiet death []

I have metered the APC 6x4e and it is pulling about 19 amps at static WOT. MotoCalc predicts that 7 x 7 would be pulling about 28 amps (and stalled at that) waaaaayy to much for those cells and a bad combination for that plane. You will be much happier with an APC 6 x 4e or 6.3 x 4 Combat prop. See http://www.apcprop.com/cgi-bin/store...1026&ppinc=apc and http://www.apcprop.com/cgi-bin/store...1027&ppinc=apc If e-Zone ever gets back up and running, check into the several Stryker thread in on the Foamies board. There are several guys - ChuckD for one - who are going nuts will all kinds of motors/props. They all say that the 6 x 4e is the best all around prop for that motor.

If you are a newbie and hooked on this hobby, I suggest you get two things: an Astro Whattmeter to check your voltage and current so you don't blow your cells, and a copy of MotoCalc to run predictions of various motor/prop/gearing combinations. MotoCalc has a free 30 trial. See http://www.motocalc.com/ It is not absolutely correct all the time, but it gets you in the ballpark and keeps you from setting up a combination that won't lift the plane or one that smokes your battery packs.
Old 02-27-2005, 05:20 PM
  #42  
Pyrock
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

FoamCrusher,

I run a Mega 16/25/4 and a CC Pheonix-35 ESC with the 3cell 2100mAh on the 7x6 prop. After running it for over 15 minutes of on-and-off wot, it was pretty darn cool...BARELY warm to the touch. I've been told that my motor works well with a 7x7 prop on a 4cell 2600 mAh battery. This way, it fully utilizes the torque of the Mega 16/25/4.

My next plane will have a 16/15/3 with a smaller prop.
Old 02-27-2005, 06:03 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Here is a taste of the kinda performance you can expect with a Mega 16/15/4 on 3s TP2100's and a 6x5.5e prop. (the second link from the top is mine) http://www.rc-forums.com/videos/planes/
My Stryker has no extra reinforcments (ie, fiberglass, carbon, kevlar, basswood etc.) In my opinion, the 16/15/4 is the best all around motor for this type of application. It works great on 3 cells and is awesome on 4 cells with a 6x4e prop, the 25/4 really needs 4 cells to come alive on 3 cells it is kind of a dog. My Stryker has been clocked woth a radar gun at 80mph straight and level on 3 cells and at 98mph into a 10mph headwind on 4 cells. It has unlimited vertical and great slow speed handling with either setup. AUW is 19oz.
Old 02-27-2005, 07:19 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Mike,

That video of your Stryker is one of my all-time favorites!

Here is a question that has probably already been discussed, but I will ask again....

Can you fly the Mega 16/15/4 with the proper speed controller using the NiMh 8.4V batteries for power? When I was into the off-road stadium trucks, we ran the brushless set-ups in our trucks using the same 7.2V NiMh stick packs that we used for our brushed motors. We got longer run times, MUCH faster trucks, and everything ran at very cool temps compared to the hot brushed motors.

What's your opinion / experience???
Old 02-27-2005, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Thanks, I've got a couple cool clips from yesterday's flying that I'd like to post too, but until ezone is back online I have no place to host them.
There is no reason why you couldn't run a 7cell Nimh/Nicad on the 16/15/4 in your Stryker. Except for weight, it should perform close to a good 2 cell lipo. Use about a 7x7 prop. Your flight times won't be as long as you might expect due to the higher AUW with the round cells causing you to get into the throttle more than you would with lipos. You were prolly using GP3300's which will weigh about 14oz for a 7 cell, 8.4V pack, a 3 cell, 11.1V TP2100 will weigh about 5.2oz, the round cells weigh almost 3X as much and have less voltage. It's worth the investment for lipos. A 3s TP2100 will run you about $75. Back when I was racing electric cars, a good matched 6 cell 2400 Nicad would run about the same $$. I imagine GP3300's gotta be up there too.
Old 02-27-2005, 08:46 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Mike,

Thanks for the reply, but I am not trying to use those big stick packs from our trucks, I am actually wondering if the stock packs that the Stryker comes with will be enough for the Mega 16/15/4. I have ordered a few of the 1100 Mah 8.4V NiMh packs that everyone has had good luck with, and I am very pleased with their performance. I also have a couple of decent Chargers for the NiMh packs.

What do you think? Will it work?
Old 02-27-2005, 10:16 PM
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Pyrock
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

That's my next project...to get a 4 cell but I will also need a charger as my Vision Peak Ultra only charges up to 3 cells or at least that what the specs say. The Mega 16/25/4 might be a dog for seasoned flyers but for me, it's plenty fast...at least for now. I thought my set up was fast until I saw MT's vid. That was pretty damn fast and much to fast for my skills. A little more practice and I'll be ready for a 4 cell lipo pack.

Awsome vid and some sick flying!!!
Old 03-02-2005, 10:58 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Mrfixit, you can try those packs but I don't think they are of high enough quality to sustain high currents for long and my end up venting the cells or just plain diminish their life span. Personally, I would buy the Kan 1050's from http://www.unipros.com/cbpsite/packs...ssion_id=82584 They are only $19.20 for an 8 cell, I think the 7 cell 900Mah Stryker packs are $26.00. I know for fact the Kan 1050's will work as I use 'em in my electric glider and they work great!!

Pyrock, Thanks. That video was on 3 cells, and if you think that is fast, you should see that thing on 4 cells!![X(][8D]

Here are the vids I spoke of in my last post.
touch and go
http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/show...cat=500&page=1
4 pt. roll
http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/show...cat=500&page=1


Mike
Old 03-05-2005, 12:37 AM
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toomunsch
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Pyrock : how do you like the plane / setup? Would you make any changes? Mine is almost ready to go. Waiting for better weather, still frozen tundra up here (Wisconsin) you know. I made a scoop out of a plastic Estes rocket nose cone and CA'd it to the front hatch (?) and punched a bunch of holes in the rear hatch (?) for cooling. I mentioned RC planes to a guy at work and after describing some of their attributes / capabilities he was so hooked he called his wife and had her order a T-Hawk online. Couldn't wait to get home!
Old 03-05-2005, 01:04 AM
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Pyrock
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Toomunsch,
It's pretty fast especially for my skill level. One thing is for sure, it is bullet proof with my 3 cell set up. If I had to do it again, I would get a 4 cell and the appropriate charger OR get a 16/15/4 w/ 3cells instead of the 16/25/4. It's fast but I know I will want more later. MTwallet's set up is what I will do for Stryker #3. My two Styker fuses arrived today. I may chop 3-4 inches off the wing tips and go with a Mega 16/15/4 and a TP 3 cell when I get bored of my 16/25/4.

If anyone is already set up for 4 cells, I may sell my 16/25/4 so I can justify getting a 16/15/4 in its place. I just dont see myself getting another lipo pack. I may as well just get another motor.

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