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Brushless F-27 Stryker

Old 03-05-2005, 01:11 AM
  #51  
FoamCrusher
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker


ORIGINAL: MTWallet

.... Personally, I would buy the Kan 1050's from http://www.unipros.com/cbpsite/packs...ssion_id=82584 They are only $19.20 for an 8 cell, I think the 7 cell 900Mah Stryker packs are $26.00. I know for fact the Kan 1050's will work as I use 'em in my electric glider and they work great!!
Mike
Mike:

IME, the GP-1100's are FAR superior to the KAN cells. They will push better than 30 amps and still hold their voltage, while the KAN's drop off at about 12 amps. Cheapbatterypacks.com sells both with the KAN's at $2.40/cell and the GP's at $3.10/cell- both at pack price. In an 8-cell pack, that is only a difference of $5.60 (~30%). but you will be much happier how they fly.

I have two 12-cell packs of the GP-1100's and they make a 30 oz Unicorn wing with a Mega 16/15/4 and a 6 x 4 prop go almost vertical but it would be a very heavy pack at about 9.6 oz compared to about 5.2 oz for 3S1P Thunder Power packs for a Stryker. I found that I did not like the sluggish flight characteristics with a 4S pack at about 7 oz in the Stryker, so I know I would not like at 12-cell GP pack....but it should make the plane go straight up until you can't see it since the Stryker is many ounces lighter than the Unicorn.


Old 03-05-2005, 01:34 AM
  #52  
MTWallet
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

FC, that's all good, I just don't like to comment on products that I haven't used or personally seen being used. I have never even seen a GP1100 cell yet therefor no comment, but in my glider that I mentioned, an 8 cell pack of Kans with a 7x4.5 folder make all 21oz of it go vertical till it's a little speck in the sky and weighs only 6.5oz for the pack. Those are the only round cells I have left since going lipo, so I may never experience the GP cells. You mention sluggish feel with your 4 cell, what's your AUW? Mine flies great on 4 cells at 21.5oz, not sluggish in the least.

Pyrock, I may be interested in your 25/4 if the price is right, could use it on 4 cells in the Stryker myself or my new .40 size 3D conversion on 5 cells.
Old 03-05-2005, 12:53 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker


ORIGINAL: MTWallet

You mention sluggish feel with your 4 cell, what's your AUW? Mine flies great on 4 cells at 21.5oz, not sluggish in the least.
Bill:

I weighed it at the time, but I don't remember now, and I have since converted to a GenII fuse that is heavier than my old GenI. It was probably around 21-22 oz since it had a Hitec 555 Rx, CC 35 ESC, HS-56 servos, a 16/15/4 with two ~ 4x4 plates of 0.03 mm birch ply sandwiching the foam under the motor, and a 4S1P TP-2100 (narrow type) pack and a lot of paint. I have gone to a Berg DSPII-4, a CC25, and just a bit of bidirectional FG tape for the motor mount area in the new one to offset a bit of the added weight of the new fuse.

I think my mistake was flying it with 3S1P first, and l liked the glide and overall handling of the plane. With four cells, it seemed to me to drop like a rock in a glide and was not nearly as responsive due to the added mass. The added "go" of the four cells was fun for a few flights, but the cost of the extra cell did not seem worth it. Plus, I have eight 3S1P packs since I have the same motor in two other planes, and buying more four-cell packs to be able to fly the Stryker for more than 10 minutes each time I went to the field was looking too steep for my wallet.

One advantage with the four cells that no one has mentioned is that with the added weight of the fourth cell and the resulting higher wing loading, it will fly in much higher winds. That is not an issue for me, but if you live some place where the wind never stops, it would be a good way to go.

Old 03-06-2005, 12:59 AM
  #54  
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

MT : that really is a great video - everyone I show it to is duly impressed. I'm setting up a 16/25/3, but am interested in the 16/15/4 for it's lower wt. and obviously great perf. I ran some Motocalc and found that a 6.5 x4 prop drew the same current as the 6X5.5, but produced almost 5 oz more thrust, while only being 4 mph slower. I was wondering if you have tried this prop or what you think of this combo.
Old 03-06-2005, 01:09 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Well, yesterday I put together stryker #3 since I miscalculated my COG on Stryker #2 after a crash resutling in a catastrophic crash on flight #2...No thanks to the wind. I transferred all the electronics and powertrain onto #3 and used 2"wide elevons. I'm not sure if they are exactly 2" but they are much wider than the stock units and seem lighter. This morning I gave her a throw and off she went. The elevons worked AWSOME!! It does pretty tight rolls and equally tight loops. What was previously my "easy rates" became real high rates. Switching to my high rate setting resulted in an air brake effect. Anywho, she flew great once I trimmed her out and compensated for the torque.

This is what I'm running so far: CC Pheonix 35 ESC, Mega 16/25/4 (soon to be 16/15/4), APC 7x6 prop, TP 3S1P 2100mAh, Futaba 9CHP.

Run time was 15-20 minutes of cruising w/ WOT blasts. I wouldn't say it's screaming fast but she's MUCH faster than stock... more importanlty, the handling has improved 10-fold...much quicker response and much more precise yet not any more difficult than stock. They should have come from the factory like this. I'm sticking with my current motor until my skills and confidence improve then it's off to the Mega 16/15/4 w/ the 3S1P set up and maybe a 6x5 prop. IMO, this is a great setup if you're a beginner/intermediate pilot and the stocker is just not floating your boat anymore... little-to-no heat and long reliable flight times. (Obviously not a maxed out system).

Oh, and still no canopy[:@]
Old 03-06-2005, 07:17 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Pyrock, See I told you not to tempt fate. Mr Murphy's everywhere.[:@]
Other than that, glad all else went so well.

BJ
Old 03-06-2005, 07:29 PM
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toomunsch
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Flew mine today for the first time and it was just awesome. I was running out of light so I didn't do much but trim it, cruise it , and punch it a few times but it had great power even with a non-aggressive test prop. I was disappointed with the stock Stryker - it was a little twitchy for me - but the new system with a lot of expo thrown in makes it fly like its on rails. It really inspires a lot of confidence when you have more power and more control. It did need a lot of down and right trim - and does pitch up under hard throttle, so there's a few kinks to work out but overall it was quite impressive. It did seem to land a little hotter. 16/25/3, CC PH25, TP2100 3S1P, Aeronaut 6.5X4.
Old 03-06-2005, 08:25 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Toomunsch,
I left you some things to check at you RCGroups post. 1 other thing with the right trim problem you had, make sure motor is dead straight in line with the fuselage, if it's off just a little, it will be trying to push the fuselage sideways, making it want to turn. Hence the large amount of trim to compensate.
BJ
Old 03-06-2005, 09:05 PM
  #59  
toomunsch
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Thanks for the info - the motor is off a little - the rear (prop end) is more to the rt than is the front. I thought that might be designed in but I guess not. As far as it needing a lot of down trim, should I raise or lower the prop end? Not sure with a pusher.
Old 03-17-2005, 12:15 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Hi guys,

I am a veteran gas flyer who lately has expanded(not totally converted) to electric... I must say that I am amazed with electric performance!! Anyhoo, I have an F-27 that I am looking to convert into a brushless setup. Here is what I have:

Mega 16/15/5
TP 3cell 2100 lipos
Jeti 18 amp controller

Do you guys think this setup will work without burning up? I am not knowledgable in the black art of electric setups! I notice that some of you are running 16/15/4's... what is the difference with a 16/15/5? Where can I go to learn how to calculate electric setups(besides getting motocalc)? Thanks in advance for any help!!!!
Old 03-17-2005, 09:18 PM
  #61  
toomunsch
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

reehoe - I've been flying electric for about 2 yrs and while I certainly don't think I'm an electronics expert ( I'm a commercial / industrial electrician) I'm fascinated with the rapid advances being made in the technology and the corresponding high performance available. I've learned a lot especially from the very knowledgable people on these boards. The main thing you need to know is the voltage and current limits on your components so you don't smoke them. The difference in those 2 motors is that the 5-turn has 5 turns of wire around each motor pole, and the 4-turn has 4 turns of slightly larger wire. Larger wire has higher ampacity. Your motor is good to 20 A max. This difference is seen in how the motor performs - RPM / volt. the 5-turn is 1800, the 4 is 2300. This addtl RPM comes at a cost - current. Larger diameter / pitch props increase this current too. From the Motocalc data I ran your components look like a good deal, although you might want to go to a 25A ESC to run a more aggressive prop. A 6.5X4 prop draws 16.6 A and produces 19.3 oz thrust according to Motocalc. A 7 inch prop gets you into the low 20's in thrust, but can draw 20 -25 A. This would be great performance in the Stryker. If you're really getting into this obsession/hobby you absolutely need Motocalc or equiv (available for a free 30 day trial) and a Whattmeter to do actual measurements before you kill a lot of expensive parts!
Old 03-18-2005, 01:38 AM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

The difference is in how "hot" the wind of the motor is. The 4 turn motor has a higher RPM/Volt ratio than the 5 turn, so a pack of a given number of cells (fixed voltage) will spin the 4 turn motor faster than the 5 turn motor. While it turns faster, it will have less torque. A higher turn motor will also draw less current at the same voltage since more turns means more resistance: V=IR. (Actually the formula is E=IR but most people don't recognize E as voltage).

The relative RPM/Volt ratings of both motors makes the /4 better suited to the voltage of either 10-cell NiMH or 3S lipo packs, while the /5 can make your plane a real hot rod with 4S lipo packs.

Remember however that more cells in series to get the higher voltage costs more weight, AND the additional cells in series give you no more duration. More weight makes the wing load go up, which takes more power, that requires more cells, which ...... (you get the idea).

The trick with electric planes is to find the sweet spot in terms of motor rating, number of cells (and thus weight of the power package), the size and pitch of the prop, the gear ratio if a gearbox is used, and the lift and drag of the airframe.

There is no "best" combination with the Stryker. There is a thread going right now on e-Zone about "how far can you take a Stryker?" and some of the guys have gone nuts with high power combos that rip the air to shreds with low turn long can BL motors and high cell counts. I think that most people are happy with the /4 on 3S1P Thunder Power narrow cells. I tried the /5 on 4S1P and liked the added power, but didn't like the extra weight so I went back to the /4 on 3S1P, but YMMV.

The /5 went into an old plastic "pod and boom" plane that is wild with 3S1P and a 6 x 4 prop. The lower wind motor draws less current and the duration is great because of the lower amp draw.

Can you run the Stryker on a /5 with 3S1P? Sure. It will fly with a lower top speed and longer duration than the /4 with the same 3S1P pack, but if it is what you have, start with that. If you get the "need for speed" and can afford it, get a /4.

FC
Old 03-26-2005, 04:15 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

I have been reading this thread and want to know which combo will ensure vertical flight capabilities?

This thing is a blast to fly stock compared to my tower .40 trainer, i just wish it could climb vertically to make it really fly like a jet. With more power this plane would really be great.
Old 03-27-2005, 02:03 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

I have an e-flite park 400 4200kv and e-flite 20-amp speed control from my mini-funtana, i'm pretty new to the whole brushless thing, but i was wondering if this motor can push my stryker well? and also what would probably be the best battery and prop for it, any help would be awsome, thanks!
Old 03-27-2005, 08:36 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

T-1 : This plane is great w/more power. I have a Mega 16/25/3, CC35 esc, UBEC, TP2100 3 and 4 cell lipos. It's scary fast with plenty of vertical. I've only flown it a few times and am still experimenting with props but it is just awesome. Others report great success with the Mega 16/15/4 and 16/25/4.
Old 03-27-2005, 08:52 PM
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toomunsch
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

SQVUE - I ran a quick Motocalc (you really should get this) on that motor and it seems that if it's geared 2.8:1 it will produce about 22 oz thrust with a 7x5 or 6 prop while pulling about 20A on a 3 cell lipo. I use Thunder Power 2100 3S1P and 4S1P in mine. Make sure that motor can handle the current. I'm not sure how you would mount a geared motor like that - the Mega direct drive motors are pretty much a bolt-in swap. Good Luck!
Old 03-28-2005, 12:19 AM
  #67  
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

so there is no way to do direct drive with my park 400? i don't need to shoot for 80 mph or anything, just something at least 10 mph faster than out of the box, i figured maybe my 2-cell 860mah thunder power lipo would maybe work, but again, i'm not sure, i'm just getting into it, otherwise i think i'll invest in the mega 16/15/4
Old 03-28-2005, 08:55 PM
  #68  
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

According to the simulations I ran, that motor won't produce enough thrust when used in a direct drive application. E-Flite recommends gearing it 6.6:1 and running 10 - 12" props. I would highly recommend the Mega - somewhat pricey but you will be amazed by the performance. I flew again today and it never fails to attract a crowd!
Old 03-29-2005, 12:58 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

I'm setting up another Brushless Stryker. Can a CC Pheonix 25 ESC handle the following setup:

Mega 16/15/4
TP 3S1P 2100
6x4 or 6x5 prop

...or do I need to go to a 5" Prop?
Old 03-29-2005, 02:00 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Pyrock:

You have to worry about BOTH the cells and the ESC. Since a 6x4e will pull just about 20 amps, the CC 25 will work fine with the hatch either off or with some holes punched in it......until a hot day. Then you may have problems, depending upon where you fly (how hot it gets). This is right at the limit for the TP-2100 narrow cells. They need some air too.

The larger the prop, the more it is going to pull. Some have gone with the 6.2 x 4 combat prop and even up to a 7 x 4, but each increment will take more current, get the ESC hotter (particularly if you fly at partial throttle when the ESC is working the hardest, and take a toll on your packs. It's your money!

Me, I stick with the 6 x 4 and use a CC35 since it gets 90F+ in the summer and have lots of holes punched in my covers. YMMV

FoamCrusher
Old 03-30-2005, 10:20 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

Hi all,

I just wanted to let you all know that I have finally tried a Stryker converted to brushless. I am a beginner at electrics, especially brushless motors and Li-po's, and was a little bit overwhelmed by the possible combinations that you can throw into this plane! I finally settled on these combos:

2 f-27 Stryker test beds

1st F-27:
Mega 16/15/5
Jeti 25 Amp speed control
Thunder Power 3 cell 2100 Mah Li-po
apc 6.5x4 E prop
hs-85mg servos
heavy-duty pushrods and hardware

2nd F-27:
Mega 16/15/4
Jeti 30 amp speed control
Kokam 3 cell 2000 Mah Li-po
APC 6.5x4 E prop
hs-85mg servos
heavy-duty pushrods and hardware


I have flown F-27 #1 and all I can say is wow, wow, WOW!!! This thing is AMAZING!!! Very quick and powerful. Vertical is great and is very jet-like, but not unlimited. Try this combo and you will not be disappointed. I then flew my bone stock M-27 Stryker-Ovich (F-27 Stryker with Soviet Markings) and thought something was wrong with it, so I landed to check it out. It turns out that I was just spoiled so much from the brushless Stryker that the stock one became a Doggy Flyer to me now!! I will try out the second one tomorrow, and from all the great advice I have got on here I can't wait. It should be unlimited vertical.

These are by no means the best or most efficient combos, and I am open to more advice from the pro's... especially on the second combo. I don't have motocalc so I don't know what to expect. I will post soon to let you all know how the electric-novice-boy is doing!!!!
Old 03-30-2005, 10:28 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

oh yeah, one more thing. I am almost done with a new rear cover for the area right in front of the motor on the Stryker. It is vacuum formed and covers the motor and electronics, and provides a Jet-like inlet tube to cool the motor and such. Looks cool and makes it more slippery!! I will post pics of all my strykers and the cover soon. See y'all later!!
Old 03-31-2005, 01:33 AM
  #73  
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

reehoe:

Try both an APC 6 x 4e (made for Speed 400 motors) or for just a bit more vertical and about the same speed the APC 6.3 x 4 (.15 gas prop). You can make that /5 climb like a monkey in a tree with a 7.8 x 4, but it will have a much slower top end. It all depends on how you like to fly.

I keep fooling around with props on that motor and always come back to the 6 x 4e as the one with the best all around balance between speed and climbing ability, but YMMV.

See http://www.apcprop.com/cgi-bin/store...c=6a&product=+ for a list of what's available from APC. With that list and MotoCalc, you can easily spend hours dialing in what will be close to the best for the way you fly. MC only gets you close, so you will still be adding to your prop collection, but every electric flyer worth his electrons has a growing collection of those he he eh.

FC
Old 03-31-2005, 04:13 PM
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toomunsch
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

FC : have you tried or heard of anyone trying the APC 6.5 props (10 - 15 pylon)? I think they might work w/ my 16/25/3 but I know they are designed for glow and don't know how they would perform in an electric.
Old 03-31-2005, 06:22 PM
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Default RE: Brushless F-27 Stryker

I have used the APC 6.3 x 4, 6.5 x 3.7 and the 6.5 x 2.9. To be honest, there is not a great deal of difference in their flying performance. The larger the diameter the slower the prop is going to turn so you get overall reduced speed, but what you lose there you pick up in climbing ability. The difference with these props is mainly in how much current draw you get as you increase the thrust. Watch it if you are using lipos that are close to their maximum current with a 6 x 4; you could cook your pack easily with one of the larger props. Get a Whattmeter to be sure what you are going.

There are people who favor the Graupner CAM props - they make some high speed props at 5.2 x 5.2, 5.5 x 4.3 and 5.5 x 5.5. I tried the 5.5 x 4.3 and was not too impressed - lots of speed but it didn't climb well and stalled if given lots of power at low speeds. Again, it is all in how you like to fly.

I was out today and with the same motor and put on an Aeronaut 7 x 4 since the wind was up around 10 mph. With more torque and less speed, the plane was more controllable but noticeably slower. This was in a Unicorn wing with a 3S1P pack of the new Kokam 20C 2100's, so I didn't care about the current. Those babies will push 40+ amps, but I would never have done that to my Thunder Power 2100's in my Stryker. You adapt to the conditions but always within the limit of your equipment.

As far as using gas props on electrics, just be sure the prop you are using is rated for the RPM your motor shaft is turning. The Mega /4 is turning about 20K which is far more than any gas engine. Definitely do not use wooden props!

FC

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