Arkitexas

Tam Popo:

I agree without reservation. The greatest power gain will be going to brushless. Yes, you will need to upgrade the ESC along with the brushless motor. Buy a brushless compatable ESC that will work with both NiMh and Lipo batteries such as the Castle Creations Phoenix series. There is a programming change when you switch, but once done you won't have to mess with it again. Then you can move up to the lipo batteries at any time.

Rick

churchill

Rick,

The Ele-Bee housing is less than bullet-proof but it is quite sturdy and very cheap to replace. I have crushed 2 top housing pieces at a cost of 6 dollars. I have also found an excellent replacement. Last week in Germany I found a certain type of bottled water - Bottle which fits the Ele-Bee housing perfectly. I brought back 6 empty bottles which should hold me over for a while. If anyone needs a few replacement I will be glad to bring some more back to US next week (just pay shipping from Atlanta). As for the motor issue I found a site www.grandrc.com which sells HIMAX 2815-3000 for $49.00 which is 20+ dollars cheaper than anywhere else on the planet. The internals I use are Thunderpower lipo -3s 2200mah, Castle Creations Phoenix 35 ESC, Hitec Electron 6 receiver, and Himax 2815-3000 brushless motor and an Optic 6 radio. The best places to get the previous equipment are: Batteries - Use Ebay, CC Phoenix 35 - TowerHobbies, Hitec - Electron 6 TowerHobbies, Himax 2815-3000 - GranRC.com.

My Next build will be an Ele-Bee or Zagi XS with an Outrunner motor and 10 inch prop.

Cheers
Shaun

churchill

For the ESC go with Castle Creations Phoenix series. I also use the USB programmer which connects to my laptop. I can completely program-reprogram an ESC in under 10 seconds. It is well woth the $20 investment.

SFPAKULS

Tam, laymans view of Brushed vs. Brushless.. Brushed motors are basic DC current motors.. 2 wires.. Brushless are 3 wire and the ESC takes the DC from the battery and approximates a wave form (on off) to simulate a AC current. So yes you need to get a new ESC. You can also program ESC to cut off (soft) when the battery voltage drops below a certain voltage. This voltage is different between Nimh and LIPOS.
Hence the programming. Typically the ESC will kill throttle (or reduce it significantly) so you know when to land. It will keep the radio working so you are still in control (assuming you are in control to start with ). Lipos are also sensative to going to low in voltage (not sure the reason) other then if they drop below a certain value, you are not supposed to charge them.. so hence they are junk after that point. So this needs to be monitored closely (not really a big issue if you use them correctly as they hold voltage at rest for a long long time..) Hope this helps

tam popo

Thanks guys! its a little clearer so now scanning mags/websites for pricing etc. These programmable esc's, do they have easy instructions when using my laptop to program or can I just use "straight from box"? Thanks a lot!
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Wot happened to the old days when you could wind the rubber band up as many times as you wanted?

tam popo

Hiya! I feel a complete buffoon! Just been reading spec of my JP480SI (Zaagi to you). In the small print hidden away it says "recommended gear, brushless motor using LiPo 11.1V 2100MaH battery pack and 30amp esc" - I feel a complete idiot. No wonder it didn't set the clouds on fire, it was lucky to get airborne. Oh well, put this down to (expensive) experience - back to scanning the adds etc. The LiPo mentioned is compatible with F27b stryker coming next week. The biggest pack I have at moment is NiMH 1300 Mah and a couple of 1000Mah. Looks like LiPos are winning at moment.Byee[>:][][&o]
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That's like John Candy (God bless his soul) peddling Icarus across English Channel.
for those that don't know Icarus was a human-powered flying machine built in US of A.

Arkitexas

tam popo:

ESC's vary in ease of programming depending on the brand and your patience. Those with computer connections like the Castle Creations are very easy to program (like most ESCs it can also be programmed from the Tx in the field if you have the manual with you). Usually however, once you have programmed the ESC, changes are rarely needed unless you are moving it from one plane to another. Even with the battery disconnected, the eprom chip in the ESC will hold your settings. Have fun shopping!

Rick

tam popo

Hiya! narrowed choice of b/less motor to one called TowerPro (200W comes in pusher mode) with esc (programmable) thrown in for £32. Advertised as direct replacement for 370/400/480 brushed. Now looking for LiPo's 11.1v 2100MaH. Total cost of conversion £65 (don't know what that converts to in Dollars, probably about $120) - worth it? Only time will tell.

churchill

As for what to do with the 400/480's, most wing manufacturers make small wings like the Windrider Mini-Bee which is 34.5 inches and cost about $35 and will scream on a speed 400/480. I too have the problem of multiple 400 series brushed motors but just ordered a mini-bee and will soon put them to good use.

ChopperMike

It finally warmed up to the point where I was able to get some flights on my Zagi XS and I just love it!. The best free airplane I ever had. Actually it's an airplane I'd recommend even if you had to pay for it. I don't know how much these go for but it seems to me the bare kits are around $100, well worth it. Mine came with a brushed motor, NiMH pack and ESC which I were pretty useless. I had an Astroflight 803T motor from my TREX heli which I figured I'd try and it worked out very well. The plane handles wind pretty good which is good since we get a lot of it here. What surprised me is the glide. I have a feeling that the slope soar version would do pretty well.


Mike

tam popo

Hi guys. Update on Zagi. Fitted b/less and still on Nimh 1300/1000Mah. Flew well but climb rate not as expected. Had to strengthen motor mount and found reason - motor shaft horizontal or even slightly sloping down at rear (not good). New mount made and shaft set sloping up at rear (might even increase if needed). Its looking a bit rough these days but keeps on taking the pounding other planes couldn't. Bought a stock Stryker f27b and flew first time today - badly!! It does fly but again down on power or is it just me watching too many videos!! Broke nose off (common problem) battery hatch flies off (now fixed) and prop loose. Still prefer Mr Zagi though. Sorry this was so long but I'm feeling lonely, sad, old, ueless flyer and broke - thats wot early retirement does for you - be scared. be very, very scared[&o][>:]

Arkitexas

tam popo:

I just installed my Mega 16/15/4, APC 6x4, CC Phoenix 25, and 3000 mAh 3S2P lipo on my Zagi XS. Hot tamale! Vertical. I can fly at 1/3 throttle for 30 minutes or WOT for 6.5 minutes. At 1/3 throttle I have more power than I had with the speed 400 at WOT. There is so much torque, the motor keeps trying to spin in the mount. I am in wing heaven. try it, you'll like it.

Rick

tam popo

Hi Rick,I know what you mean about the motor mount twisting, had to beef my up and not even fitted LiPos yet!! How mush up elevator are using for neutral, is it a lot? Have followed build instructions and advic but stil feel it needs mor. Time will tell. Going testing tomorrow. Nice to hear frum you again[X(][X(]

tam popo

Sorry about the spelling just then but I'm a registered insomniac (honest!), not slept for 36 hours and feeling the strain. Even watching repeats of Curling doen't help! Bedtime [X(][X(][X(]
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This is true - I attend the sleep clinic (only one is Scotland) at Edinburgh, but everytime I phone no-one answers - are they all asleep?

churchill

I have actually broken about 6 Zagi motor mount trays which are pain to replace. I got tired of ordering them and waiting so I redesigned the motor mount with some carbon door shims and an aluminum pipe mounts. It took about 30 minutes to completely install and reset the CG. I have not broken or had to replace anything since.

tam popo

Hello Mr Churchill........... I don't know of any planes that will take the sort of abuse we throw at Mr Zagi, we can be back flying within hours thanks to epoxy and tie wraps (thank the tiewrap Lord!!!)
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If Zagi's were human we'd all be locked up for mistreating them, and going thru counselling

Arkitexas

tam popo:

The "up elevator" you refer to is called "reflex" and is typical for all wings. The reflex on my Zagi XS is about 4 degrees when measured from the underside face of the wing and about 7 degrees when measured from the upper face of the wing. This is good for mid speed with my brushless and power-off glide. If I crank it wide open, the wing will climb slightly.

I stopped the motor twisting by placing a dab of silicone between the motor and the tray before tightening the zip tie.

Going from 1800 mAh NiMh to 3000 mAh Lipo increased thrust slightly but not nearly as much as going brushless in the first place.

I do most of my misspelling when I am rested and wide awake. When I am tired, I don't misspell because I can't type.

Rick

tam popo

Mr Arkitexas, you're a man after my own heart (as we Scots say). The mount I made uses plastic wedges used in fitting wooden flooring - a neat job. Batterys on charge, going out later. Not related to Zagi but can I use LiPos in Aerobird Swift. Esc not accessible and not b/less. Battery at moment is 1000Mah NimH 8.4V. Just a thought, cos you seem quite knowledgeable about "this stuff". The reflex is about same as you mentioned. Kepp uou posted

Arkitexas

tam popo:

You can use lipo batteries with brushed motors but the ESC must be lipo compatible. Being lipo compatible means that the ESC will shut off at low voltages peculiar to lipos. As the battery is used, the voltage drops near then end of the charge life. You don't want to drain lipos below 3 volts per cell (that's near the minimum voltage as I have also read of 2.9v and 2.8v) or the battery will be permanently damaged. This voltage is different than that for NiMh's or NiCd's which can be run dead and still be recharged. Once below the minumum voltage the chemistry inside the lipos goes bad and recharging could result in a fire. Some ESC's auto-detect the lipo voltage, while others must be specifically programmed. If you have a 3 cell lipo, its voltage will be 3.7v x 3 or 11.1 volts. Its cut-off voltage will be around 3.0v x 3 or 9 volts (I think the Castle Creations Pegasus cuts off at 8.4 volts with a 3 cell lipo). Some ESC such as the CC Pegasus 35 can be set to either battery type. It all sounds complicated but it isn't. Just buy an ESC that is correct for brushed or brushless, the right amperage, and then the right battery type. Hope this helps.

Rick

tam popo

Thanks Rick for that. I think i understand but a little more research on rc=uni might not go amiss. The plan is LiPo for Mr Zagi and Stryker f27b with occasional use in Swift. The stryker is sold with brushed but advertises optional LiPo compatability (2200Mah) but doesn't state if esc or motor needs upgrading. Sorry for getting onto other wings but LiPo info is importanrt. Definately going out tomorrow, can now fly w/ends as well since packing in my 16hr part time job (back to early retirement and reality). Hell, life is hard[X(][X(]

Ritewing

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Arkittexas the ritewing does not leave any battery hangin in the open,they all are slid into the wing ito a hatch and are way durable and aerodynamic,notlike a plastic tray that cracks and breaks w the slightest bounce..

Arkitexas

Ritewing:

You are correct, the battery hangs outside on the "Speedwing"! Apologies, I tried to edit the error but evidently I can't do so on older posts.

Rick

guapoman2000

Seems like this thread needs some updates!

I have had my ZAGI for at least 12+ years so, it may not be the latest version but, it does move out very nicely with the 28mm Himax Inrunner brushless motor and swinging the APC "glow" 6X4 on 3-Cells, 2200mAH, 35C, Lithium Polymers.

Commutation is done via the Castle Creations PHX-25 ESC.

After perhaps several years, I finally came back to fly my models (at least my Wing models) at the KARS RC flying field.
KARS stands for (Kennedy Space Center Athletic Recreational Sports)

I have been back but, just to scout the area and look around. However, on Friday, October 21st, 2016 I came determined to fly something here. It was a very unique feeling flying here with all this isolation! I found myself alone and only human for miles!








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