sharpshooter223

ok, i have bought an ultrafly outrage about a year ago and the most i have done is put the wheels on the landing gear wire, you might be wondering why its taking me so long to build, but the thing is, i didnt know it needed foam safe ca. i went and priced foam safe ca and found out that it costs 10 bucks an oz which is a price i wont pay. also i heard that it doesnt bond too well unless you have a very good joint. so does anybody know of a good alternative to foam safe ca, and just in case you arent already assuming so, IT DOES HAVE TO BE FOAM SAFE WHATEVER IT IS. all i have to go with right now is some gws glue out of an old kit and im not sure how well that will hold.

novabill

I used hot glue to build mine.you just have to be careful how much you use so as to not add extra weight. I have been using hot glue to build foamys for years.

sharpshooter223

wont that partly melt it from the heat?

Chris-_-Memphis

My Feedback: (3)

not if your glue gun is at the right temp...


these guys haave a new product out i might try [link=http://yardbirdrc.com/]New Glue[/link]

rcnxs

There was a lot of good talk about Foamhesive so I bought 3 bottles from rcfoam.com and built a foamy with it. It seems to go further, no odor and very strong. I did some test joints with it and it pulled the foam away but not the glue joint and the great thing about it...it is flexible unlike CA. Give it a try...it is also distributed by Nikitis Aircraft.

sharpshooter223

hmmm, 4 bucks for an oz is still kind of a steep price for me right now, i think ill just go with the hot glue

novabill

Yes, you need to use glue and a gun that's low/medium heat and use sparingly. I love this method, but in the beginning, did burn a little foam. Planes still flew fine though.

novabill

If you really get agressive with your foamys, you will crash frequently and you'll be glad you used it. It's cheap and IMO I think it makes a better repair than CA.

sharpshooter223

ill practice with some scrap foam i have from the kit

Woodsy

What sort of foam?
PVA will glue EPS
UHU Creative works pretty well.
UHU twist and glue works as well.

sharpshooter223

i have depron and either epp or eps, i dont know the difference. i tried the hot glue, it holds surprisingly well however a thin part of the stuff being glued got melted a little bit by the heat. this was on the edge of depron, and that wont be a joint i make often so i will stick to the hot glue for this plane. although i may use the rest of my gws glue for the epp or eps whatever it is. im not a major foam person so i dont know the difference, im used to building with balsa and ply.

novabill

Practice with the hot glue, I make literally hundreds of stiffy protos as well as depron planes. We would go broke if we used oderless CA. Hot glue has never let me down. If you get good, the bead of glue will fill the melted foam leaving a perfectly smooth seam. You will never have a failure at the joint either.

saucerguy

Gorrilla glue and sumo glue make killer bonds in eps foam as well, but it's expanding glue, so you need to make sure you use sparingly and keep your eye's open to wipe away any excess that seeps out.

Hot glue is still my favorite, you can get a big bundle of it at the dollar store along with the glue gun itself. Now, while we are on that topic, I do use high temp hot glue on balsa and ply construction as well, especially in key areas, or when fixing a spot that keeps breaking that needs more reinforcement, not the whole plane mind you, just in spots that refuse to stay put with regular glues. Also, within the ply/balsa venue, I'm moving away from using CA, it's simply not as strong of a bond as PVA since the PVA has more time to soak into the wood itself rather then just sitting at the surface CA does.

Along the different types of foams though, EPP is a completely different make up chemical wise, you can use a huge variety of cements and glues with it that would normally destroy EPS, so be sure you know which one you are using.

Truglodite

if it's epp, nothing is stronger than household goop. the downside with goop is it will destroy eps and depron, and it's easy to go overboard with it (=heavier joints). i love gorilla glue for eps, depron, & epp, because it holds extremely well, stays pliable, and expands while curing. i think gorilla glue is best for joints with large gaps because it foams up and stays light when you are gapfilling. both of those glues are available at home depot and are fairly inexpensive. i've also had great results with uhu creativ with epp, but it's a bit hard to work with compared to the other 2 and doesn't hold as well imo. the cool thing about uhu is it remains tacky and is extremely pliable.

i'm not familiar with pva, other than poly vinyl acrylate paint used for priming drywall. i hear many ppl raving about urethane glue lately, but again i'm not familiar with it. i hear hotglue holds well but it's a bit hard to work with.

-kev

sharpshooter223

can anybody tell me the difference between eps and epp

novabill

EPS- Expanded poly styrene. (styrofoam and depron) wings, fuse and tailfeathers on your outrage. EPS is light but brittle.

EPP- Expanded poly propelene (very flexible and resistant to chemicals in most adhesives.) We make the stiffys out of EPP, but they need to be skinned or sparred to become rigid.

Hope this helps.

sharpshooter223

well i knew the names of them, but what do they both look like, which one is all the little white foam dots that look packed together and crumble easily when cut

Swift427

Locktite Sumo Glue at LOWES

novabill

Hmm,

Styrofoam (EPS)

Woodsy

EXPS Extruded Polystyrene.
The closed cell foam we know as Cellfoam/Depron/FFF.

EPP Expanded Poly Propylene
EPP foam doesn't dent or break. It has a "spongy" quality to it, so on impact it compresses and pops back to shape.

EPS Expanded Polystyrene
The (generaly) white foam that is made up of the little foam balls. can be glued with PVA glue (the white wood glue).

sharpshooter223

so is epp like the stuff used for beds

saucerguy

No, that's a different kind of foam all together. EPP has been used since the mid 80's for everything from packing material to automotive bumper core material. There are actually several different types of it and are typically custom tailored to the clients needs. It's alot more expensive then eps, but is very popular as a building material with planes these days.

I prefer eps as a building material entirely due to costs, and when properly reinforced, ie. packing tap, strapping tape, carbon fiber and balsa reinforcement, it does make a light weight durable and versatile material to work with. What I like most about eps, I can get it from the local home depot or lowes.

sharpshooter223

wow, i cant believe a thread about glues would acctually reach to 2 pages

saucerguy

Here is the source of all of that EPP we are buying from vendors and where the major manufactures are getting it from. There is plenty of reading there, I plan upon getting some raw beads and trying to process them into the final product in house, that and seeing what they can do to sell the finished stock direct as well.

http://www.jsp.com/eu/home/about_us.php

You will find, there is much knowledge to be gained here, our members are very bright and usually have a myriad of information you won't find condensed in one place anywhere, especially taking note from what the old timers are saying. 50+ years guy, I'd love to visit your shop and work with you on a build, I could learn so much from you and am grateful for your input especially, "not that everybody elses input is diminished".