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carb diaphram replacement color/material

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carb diaphram replacement color/material

Old 12-02-2010, 11:49 PM
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dschroeder
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Default carb diaphram replacement color/material

i bought a kit to rebuild a walbro carb...i noticed there are different color/material pump parts in the kit (black, blue and a semi transparent white) whats the difference in them? they appear to be prefect matches to eachother
Old 12-03-2010, 12:09 AM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

The black one is alcohol resistant rubber, pumps fuel very good but has the shortest service life, 1-2 years max.

The blue one is acetate, alcohol proof and most any other chemical resistant, it's the stiffest and though adequate it has the least effective pumping action.

The tan one is a teflon fiber, it's alcohol resistant and has the best pumping action of all, it is standard OEM for most Walbro WT/WA series carbs, will last 2-5+ years.
Old 12-03-2010, 02:11 AM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

thanks jody i always wondered the same thing
Old 12-03-2010, 05:58 AM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

Check this out. Dan.
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:10 AM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

While you're looking at those diaphragms, note the top pump diaphragm. Looking at the two little flaps in the top picture of the black diaphragm you can see a bend in the left flap. If you see a similar condition on the pump diaphragms in your carbs, replace the diaphragm. Those flaps must be dead on flat for the pump to work effectively. Bends or other damage to those flaps require they be replaced.
Old 12-03-2010, 10:23 AM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

The way the top diaphram is distorted looks to me like classic damage to the rubber diaphram from fuel additives such as ethanol. When the pumping part of the diaphram gets distended enough, it will no longer pump fuel properly. Been there done that....

AV8TOR
Old 12-03-2010, 01:41 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material


ORIGINAL: av8tor1977

The way the top diaphram is distorted looks to me like classic damage to the rubber diaphram from fuel additives such as ethanol. When the pumping part of the diaphram gets distended enough, it will no longer pump fuel properly. Been there done that....

AV8TOR
Right on av8tor1977...I been there too! Hey I flew my Giles G202....it is a real nice flying airplane. I do think some of the ARF from Nitro H. are well worth the money. The instructions was missing on mine...must be they wanted to save on paper! Ha! Capt,n

PS as you know some of the hardwareis better for .60 size airplanes!
Old 12-03-2010, 02:02 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

It also happens from age and permitting the pump diaphragm to dry out. Acellerating and idles become erratic when this happens, if the engine will run at all. I go through a couple hundred carbs a month so the problem is seen more frequently than most would.
Old 12-03-2010, 02:30 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material


ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

It also happens from age and permitting the pump diaphragm to dry out. Acellerating and idles become erratic when this happens, if the engine will run at all. I go through a couple hundred carbs a month so the problem is seen more frequently than most would.
+1 on the drying out. Many people blame ethanol for the curling problem when it is just simple lack of use over time. The carb goes dry and the diaphrams distort. Saw the same thing many years ago in saws and other engines .... long before ethanol use was ever even thought of. But its easy to blame ethanol for every problem that comes along!! Yes, ethanol can cause or contribute to the problem too .... but its certainly not the only cause.
Old 12-03-2010, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

I keep my carbs wet. In some cases I have seen the rubber diaphrams go bad overnight...

Everyone says "Well you have to do maintenance!" when I complain about rubber diaphrams, or "You have to keep them wet". I am literally talking about diaphrams going bad overnight sometimes, other times they last only 2 or 3 months. That's why I now use a special storage fuel and now I no longer have problems. This isn't my "first parade." I've been a mechanic and modifying engines of all types for 40+ years....

AV8TOR
Old 12-03-2010, 04:32 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

Good idea AV8TOR. How do you keep the diaphragms wet and what do you use? Dan.
Old 12-03-2010, 04:45 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material


ORIGINAL: av8tor1977

I keep my carbs wet. In some cases I have seen the rubber diaphrams go bad overnight...

Everyone says ''Well you have to do maintenance!'' when I complain about rubber diaphrams, or ''You have to keep them wet''. I am literally talking about diaphrams going bad overnight sometimes, other times they last only 2 or 3 months. That's why I now use a special storage fuel and now I no longer have problems. This isn't my ''first parade.'' I've been a mechanic and modifying engines of all types for 40+ years....

AV8TOR
AV8TOR,

Not critical of you, your abilities or knowledge in any way. I highly respect your knowledge and have read many of your posts with interest over the years I acknowledged that ethanol can contribute to carb problems but many people blame ethanol for every carb problem that comes along. It just ain't so. Many people use ethanol mixed fuels with zero problems. For the most part, I don't believe it is the users that cause the problems .... I do believe it is the particular fuel mix available in certain areas of the country as clearly, some people are having problems. The base gasoline stock varies considerably around the country. That combined with ethanol seems to create a mixture that is especially toxic to some carb and rubber parts. No problem here in the central part of the country. I see no difference between using ethanol mixed fuels or plain gasoline. Other than a very old chainsaw, I have never had a diaphram fail to at least function in a Walbo or similar carb.

I don't question that you have had fuel related problmes. Maybe we can send you some "good" gasoline from Iowa? Either ethanol mix or straignt gas .... as we still have a choice at the pump which one we use.

Standard disclainer: I live in a corn producing state but don't support its use in gasoline for various reasons. But I don't think it should be blamed for problems that by itself it is not causing.

Old 12-03-2010, 05:44 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

Gasoline can be blended using a great many chemicals. As long as they are on an state approved list of additives they can be used. Those lists are not the same from state to state, and blends can vary from week to week using different chemicals if they are on the list.

Then you have the "off brand" carbs that can contain components made out of almost anything. If it's cheap enough and works at least for a little bit you can bet it will be used. Next comes assembly processes that influence component conditions. Too many variables to blame ethanol, especially when so many people don't have any problems with their carbs in years of use, having always been left "wet" from the last flight.
Old 12-03-2010, 06:35 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material


ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

Gasoline can be blended using a great many chemicals. As long as they are on an state approved list of additives they can be used. Those lists are not the same from state to state, and blends can vary from week to week using different chemicals if they are on the list.

Then you have the ''off brand'' carbs that can contain components made out of almost anything. If it's cheap enough and works at least for a little bit you can bet it will be used. Next comes assembly processes that influence component conditions. Too many variables to blame ethanol, especially when so many people don't have any problems with their carbs in years of use, having always been left ''wet'' from the last flight.
TOM, don't forget there are OEM Walbro parts then there are those plain white label parts with unknown sources. They usually have the same p/n too. I'll stick to the OEM parts.
Old 12-04-2010, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

Well, this will probably get me in trouble too, but I am not against ethanol, and I think we should basically switch to it as Brazil has proved feasible. That would break the stranglehold the oil companies and the Arabs have on us and our economy. It would be a bit troublesome to switch, having to go to all alcohol compatible components in our fuel systems, but the payoff could be great. Everything you can think of somehow depends on petroleum. If we could switch to (hopefully) cheaper ethanol, it would benefit our economy greatly. The crops would put closed down farms back into use, use otherwise vacant land, generate oxygen and soak up "greenhouse gases". But that is just my opinion...

What I use for a storage fuel is Coleman fuel mixed at 20 to 1 with oil, (Pennzoil in my case), and Sta-Bil gas stabilizer for good measure. It is probably overkill, but using it as an afterrun fuel, and then leaving it in the tank and carb, has solved the diaphram, fuel line, and carb in general problems we had been experiencing. I have 12 flying planes in my fleet, and some of them sit for long periods of time before being flown again. Using the storage fuel, I have had planes sit for a year, and work perfectly upon the next use. Note that I do not recommend flying with Coleman fuel due to its very low octane. (I know some people report flying with it and having no problems, but I still don't recommend it.)

I agree that ethanol may or may not be the culprit when experiencing carb problems. But whatever is in the fuel in the Tucson, Arizona area is hell on carbs. I often buy huge lots of yard equipment to fix and resell, and use some of the engines to convert for airplane use. 80+ percent of the problems the machines I buy have are gummed up carbs, bad diaphrams, and ruined fuel lines. Often times the fuel lines turn to a gummy "mush" that you can squeeze with your fingers and the fuel line disintegrates and sticks to itself and your fingers like glue, and the diaphrams in the carbs are either rock hard or severely distended.

AV8TOR
Old 12-04-2010, 09:33 AM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

Oh yea, you're in trouble now. The petroleum industry probably has people out looking for you.

Just an FYI. Most 2 stroke oils as a stabilizer.
Old 12-04-2010, 12:44 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

Yeah, like I said, my mixture (storage fuel) is probably way overkill, but man was I getting tired of having carb problems. It's embarrassing when the "engine guy" shows up at the field and proceeds to have problems getting his engine(s) to run right!

As far as the oil companies "gunning for me", people have been killed for a lot less than the billions and billions of dollars they have at stake....

AV8TOR
Old 12-05-2010, 07:31 AM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material


ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

Oh yea, you're in trouble now. The petroleum industry probably has people out looking for you.

Just an FYI. Most 2 stroke oils as a stabilizer.
T.O.M. does Red Line oil fall under the 'have stabilizer' banner?

Karol
Old 12-05-2010, 09:50 AM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

i'm thinking about running 100LL av-gas next season to keep the smell down in the basement...does it need a specific pump diaphram or will it work with the blue or white ones just fine?
Old 12-05-2010, 12:06 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

You would be better off using one of the scent additives available for gasoline, much less expensive, better for your engine, and it could smell like strawberry or rootbeer.
Old 12-05-2010, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

never thought of using one of the fuel scents, i've used them in glow fuel before though. is 100LL hard on engines?
Old 12-05-2010, 07:47 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

The lead is not good for two strokes or spark plugs, it's more expensive, and usually inconvenient to get. The scents come in an inexpensive concentrated size, for about $12 most pilots would have a years worth of Super Sonic Cinnamon, or Groovy Grape. [8D]

http://www.palmerracingfuels.com/additives.htm

Old 12-05-2010, 07:54 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

rock on, i'll give it a shot. have you run it in gas engines before?

Jody- i greatly appreciate your advice, kinda new to flying gassers
Old 12-05-2010, 08:22 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material

I've used it before in dirt bikes, not in our toy planes, though I have seen others use it several times. It causes no harm or ill running qualities.
Old 12-05-2010, 08:27 PM
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Default RE: carb diaphram replacement color/material


ORIGINAL: jedijody

The lead is not good for two strokes or spark plugs, it's more expensive, and usually inconvenient to get. The scents come in an inexpensive concentrated size, for about $12 most pilots would have a years worth of Super Sonic Cinnamon, or Groovy Grape. [8D]

http://www.palmerracingfuels.com/additives.htm

I really use to hate that stuff at the track!! The coconut was tolerable though!! You really get a whiff of the stuff when their exhaust is blowing in your face. [sm=tongue_smile.gif]

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