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Special oil for gas now?

Old 02-18-2011, 06:26 PM
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crashland 73
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Default Special oil for gas now?

I just heard that with with this new ethinal or whatever were supposed to use a different oil because it separates from the gas. And a possibility of rust on the cyl. Anyone know about this?
Old 02-18-2011, 07:14 PM
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gboulton
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

Presuming you mean "ethanol" it's not the least bit new.  Many vendors have been selling up to 10% ethanol blends for many years now.  Some states mandate it. 

Whether or not it blends with oil, etc, is a matter of some debate.  There also seems to be debate of whether or not the rubber seals/o-rings/grommets in our gas engines can handle it. 

The easiest way to avoid the whole issue is, simply, to buy gas without ethanol in it.  That's still an option in many states, Arkansas included.  Just google "ethanol free gas" and you'll find a large number of websites that list/map/discuss where to get ethanol-free gasoline in states that allow it.

Here are a couple of links to get you started:




Old 02-18-2011, 07:26 PM
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

There have been warnings in the ultralight airplane industries for years now about this. The theory is that the alcohol in the gas attracts moisture, (which it does), and that this water content in the fuel is what will not mix with the oil. We were warned to test gasoline for alcohol, and if it had it, not to use it.

Now, having said all that, in hundreds of hours flying two stroke powered ultralight airplanes as an instructor, and years of maintaining many ultralight airplanes, I have to say that I have never seen a problem.

Nor have I seen it with my model airplane fuel.

In a full size airplane, (ie. Cessna, Piper, etc.), some models have an STC to use auto fuel. In this case, if I were flying an airplane using auto fuel, for various reasons I would prefer a gasoline without alcohol. The STC to permit auto fuel in some models of aircraft came about because of serious lead fouling spark plug problems with aero engines that were designed to run on 80/87 octane fuel, but were forced to use 100LL when 80/87 fuel was discontinued. This lead fouling problem is also why I don't recommend AVGAS for model airplane engines.

AV8TOR
Old 02-18-2011, 07:38 PM
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

An alternative is to use Coleman fuel, or as Wal-Mart used to market, Ozark lantern fuel. Use of this is debated and may not be suitable for some of your engines. I use it for my Zenoah G23 and my Echo, Poulan and Craftsman tiller, trimmer and blower engines. I mix it with Pennzoil Air Cooled oil at 32:1. It works great for me, smells good, and does not go stale. It does not have water or alcohol of any kind in it.

Just my limited and personal experience. Good luck with your experiences.

Sincerely, Richard
Old 02-18-2011, 07:42 PM
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crashland 73
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

Coleman has crossed my mind. Yes ethanol, i knew there would have to be the dredded english teacher around here lol! Jk
Old 02-18-2011, 07:59 PM
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

Recent discussion.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10323641/tm.htm

Ethanol blends with water gasoline does not. When you get enough water in E10 gasoline mixed with oil, the ethanol and water separate from the gasoline. Now the oil you're blending with gasoline does not blend with alcohol. So when you get enough water in the mix it looks like the oil separates from the alcohol. The oil is not the problem, it's the water!!

Greg
Old 02-18-2011, 08:24 PM
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the Wasp
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

I want Gas, straight Gas, the only thing good about the ethanol mix is it taste better than straight Gas

Jim
Old 02-18-2011, 08:39 PM
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crashland 73
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

Shhh! Or the government will ban gasoline!!
Old 02-18-2011, 08:53 PM
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?


ORIGINAL: spaceworm

An alternative is to use Coleman fuel, or as Wal-Mart used to market, Ozark lantern fuel. Use of this is debated and may not be suitable for some of your engines. I use it for my Zenoah G23 and my Echo, Poulan and Craftsman tiller, trimmer and blower engines. I mix it with Pennzoil Air Cooled oil at 32:1. It works great for me, smells good, and does not go stale. It does not have water or alcohol of any kind in it.

Just my limited and personal experience. Good luck with your experiences.

Sincerely, Richard
It's not suitable for any IC engine, read the label.

Here we go again, the sky is falling .... again.

E10 gaswasmandated in many states almost 20 years ago, all our carburetors have alcohol resistant components for up to 20% ethanol. Buy gas from a busy gas station, store it in an approved container and put the lid on it,shake it up oncebefore you useit for the day,nothing else needs to be done.


Old 02-18-2011, 09:16 PM
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

Here we go again. Indeed, the sky is falling..............
Old 02-18-2011, 09:16 PM
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crashland 73
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

NO the sky aint fallin, i just asked a simple question. Derrr!
Old 02-18-2011, 09:30 PM
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?



My reply was not to your question, it's to the answers you got to it. 

Old 02-18-2011, 09:47 PM
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crashland 73
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

Oh, ok, hehe.
Old 02-18-2011, 11:08 PM
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

No Coleman fuel. Octane is something like 55. No, no, no...

AV8TOR
Old 02-19-2011, 04:12 AM
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pe reivers
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

Coleman was the worst suggestion I saw. People up high in the mountain states may get away with it, but have no indication of the damage potential.
Some Ethanol in the fuel is GOOD! It dries the water in the gas by absorbing it and transports it through the carb without doing damage. Your tank will be free of water all the time.
We have legally 10% ethanol for a few years now. So far, no problems with all kinds of oils.
In the US, gas quality may differ locally, so I have heard. Get your gas from a good source that you have confidence in and you will be good.
Old 02-19-2011, 05:36 AM
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?


ORIGINAL: jedijody


ORIGINAL: spaceworm

An alternative is to use Coleman fuel, or as Wal-Mart used to market, Ozark lantern fuel. Use of this is debated and may not be suitable for some of your engines. I use it for my Zenoah G23 and my Echo, Poulan and Craftsman tiller, trimmer and blower engines. I mix it with Pennzoil Air Cooled oil at 32:1. It works great for me, smells good, and does not go stale. It does not have water or alcohol of any kind in it.

Just my limited and personal experience. Good luck with your experiences.

Sincerely, Richard
It's not suitable for any IC engine, read the label.

Here we go again, the sky is falling .... again.

E10 gas was mandated in many states almost 20 years ago, all our carburetors have alcohol resistant components for up to 20% ethanol. Buy gas from a busy gas station, store it in an approved container and put the lid on it, shake it up once before you use it for the day, nothing else needs to be done.


Exactly... I've been doing this for 25yrs.
Old 02-19-2011, 06:34 AM
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

I do not like this ethanol fuel deal that is shoved on us. Your car or truckends up getiing less miles per gallon...less power for pulling...you end up buying more fuel....end result, you pay more $$ for fuel. But it does not end there. Using the 10% or more ehtanol fuels means we end up paying more for cereal & a lot of basic foods.

Now who ends up" making more" is the oil companies, because they sell more gas...just because of the lost fuel milagewith most all cars & trucks....ect you use....that needs fuel. Listen too TV....higher prices for everthing predicted. Capt,n
Old 02-19-2011, 08:42 AM
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crashland 73
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

I know for a fact that coleman fuel works very well & of course mixed with 2 st oil. I know an elderly gent, no, two elderly gents that use coleman fuel, these guys engines have used it for MANY years & have only used it only & no pump fuel. Still going strong. Ive talked to coleman personaly, i collect their lanterns, they said their fuel was triple filtered gasoline. That was what they told me anyway. Unless they are like verizon wireless and if you call 10 times & get 10 different answers. Worlds largest 3g networkmy hind end.
Old 02-19-2011, 08:42 AM
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

To jedijody, and pe reivers:

As I said in my response to the original question "Use of this is debated and may not be suitable for some of your engines". I also said I use it successfully in my engines. Many others do so also. The issue of detonation with octane of 55 is I think, the problem you have with Coleman type fuels. I do not experience this with my engines, nor do as I imagine do others who use it without harm to their engines. We do not all run high performane, high compression, very expensive engines. For you to make a blanket statement that Coleman type fuel is not usable in any type engine is not true and a discredit to your otherwise great expertise in engine technology.


Now, to get to less controversial subjects:

What oil do you think best for 2 stroke air cooled engines?

Sincerely, Richard
Old 02-19-2011, 08:53 AM
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crashland 73
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

That blue oily stuff that comes out when you wring out a smurf, its biofriendly & one smurf makes enough oil to make 55 gal of gas mix.
Old 02-19-2011, 09:11 AM
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pe reivers
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

I'll bite:

In order to use 55-60 octane fuel, you need to have a very low compression ratio in your engine, or there will be detonation.
very low CR is either in the engine design (very low specific power) or in low air density (high altitude).
Maybe even a combination of the two.
I mentioned the high altitude in my post.
I know there are some guys that use Coleman successfully. These guys should however be careful when making general statements like "I use it, so it's good for you too". They also should mention why it works for them so others can make an educated descision.
Considering the octane rating, the use of Coleman fuel is certainly not to be advised in general.

As to "best oil"
I will not go there. If your engine gets away with Coleman, almost any oil will do, and the cleaning capability of your oil may be the main selection factor. In that case, any of the ISO LEG-D or Jaso FD classified oils will do, but also the lower classed garden appliance oils.
If you have a very high specific power engine, there always is the combination of mixing ratio and oil quality. Castor at 1:15 will do for racing engines, but so will Stihl HP ultra at 1:50, and about a hundred oils in between. Every oil company has it's own high performance oil.
Some high torque engines need thicker oil than others to stand up to the high bearing pressures. The higher the specific power or torque, the higher the demand on oil quality, and the higher the price of that oil. In lower specification engines this expensive oil could however well be a wrong choice, if oils with less viscosity are required. (like in high revving Zenoah engines)
Some superior oils have no cleaning agents inside, and are used for racing only, because the engines are taken apart and cleaned at regular intervals.
The list can go on.
Old 02-19-2011, 09:46 AM
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

If someone intends to use Coleman camp gas they better be using a high detergent oil at a rich ratio. The first time they have a small piece of hot carbon in their engine could be a disaster. I would be avoiding props of 10 pitch and above as well.
Old 02-19-2011, 10:38 AM
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?


ORIGINAL: spaceworm

To jedijody, and pe reivers:

As I said in my response to the original question "Use of this is debated and may not be suitable for some of your engines". I also said I use it successfully in my engines. Many others do so also. The issue of detonation with octane of 55 is I think, the problem you have with Coleman type fuels. I do not experience this with my engines, nor do as I imagine do others who use it without harm to their engines. We do not all run high performane, high compression, very expensive engines. For you to make a blanket statement that Coleman type fuel is not usable in any type engine is not true and a discredit to your otherwise great expertise in engine technology.


Now, to get to less controversial subjects:

What oil do you think best for 2 stroke air cooled engines?

Sincerely, Richard
Read the label on a container of white gas, the manufacturer of the stuffstateswhat it's to be usedin, IC engines aren't on the list.As do a couple others who have posted in this thread, I see the insides of a fairly large cross section of engines used in this hobby and others. I've seen first handthe effects of white gas on a hot day,and the accumulations left behind that choke the engine down to a power level half what the engine was capable of.

It isfar safer and more responsibleof meto make the blanket statement I have made,which is the policythe manufacturer of the product agrees with by the way, than for youto even suggest to the inexperiencedthat itcould beany kind of solution for anything relating to IC engines.
Old 02-19-2011, 10:47 AM
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Tired Old Man
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?

Hey Jody,

Keep watching the postings. They may be looking for someone to fill my job pretty soon.
Old 02-19-2011, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: Special oil for gas now?


[/quote]
Not a quote...I clicked the wrong symbol.

I would like to ask WHY some guys like to use camp fuel...the price is high...if you do not lke the smell of reg punp gas....buy AV gas. Again why do you guys like coleman fuel???????????? Capt,n

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