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3 x DLE 30's - cranky

Old 06-21-2011, 01:48 PM
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GeraldRosebery
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Default 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

I have looked at the DLE 30 postings and some people seem to think that the cranky nature of the DLE 30 is usually the bad stock plug. In our club we have (at least) 3 members with DLE 30's (real ones) including myself. All exhibit the same cranky nature. They are all "sort of" new and were pigs to start the first time. They quit for no apparent reason on the ground or in the air and resist all attempts to tune them. None of the owners are newbies to gas and we are all very frustrated. Mine would not draw gas without a starter attached and I have never been never able to hand start it yet. Is is really just the plug or have people seen a combination of incorrect timing, bad ignitions, bad carbs, stuck reeds etc??? This is supposed to be a great engine but everything I have seen in person does not confirm that view. Please advise!!
Old 06-21-2011, 02:12 PM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

So are you all three still using the stock plug?
Old 06-21-2011, 02:31 PM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

If you're all three using the stock plug I can pretty much guaranty that is the problem.

If you're all three using an NGK CM-6 spark plug I would think you're all three doing the same thing wrong.

The DLE30 is a sweetheart of an engine, one of the most user friendly engines on the planet right out of the box.
Old 06-21-2011, 02:38 PM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

+1 for Jody's response. I can't imagine an easier engine to get along with than the DLE 30 ... unless its the DLE 55. It would be very unusual to get (3) bad ones in a row so there must be some common ingredient that is causing you all to have problems.
Old 06-21-2011, 02:46 PM
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GeraldRosebery
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

Yes, I far as I know we are all still using the stock plug. It was only today that I saw the posts. What I wanted to ask is - Is the plug almost always the culprit to weird behavior or are there other issues people know about are seem to be common?.
Old 06-21-2011, 02:50 PM
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GeraldRosebery
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

Regarding the DLE being a sweetheart. That is why we all bought one and I (and they) are very surprised by our problems. I am unaware of a DLE 30 in the club that runs well. (Not true for the DLE 55's which cause little or no problems that I have heard about.)
Old 06-21-2011, 03:07 PM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky


ORIGINAL: GeraldRosebery

Regarding the DLE being a sweetheart. That is why we all bought one and I (and they) are very surprised by our problems. I am unaware of a DLE 30 in the club that runs well. (Not true for the DLE 55's which cause little or no problems that I have heard about.)
Are they all tuned by the same person?
Old 06-21-2011, 03:09 PM
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aussiesteve
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky


ORIGINAL: GeraldRosebery

What I wanted to ask is - Is the plug almost always the culprit to weird behavior or are there other issues people know about are seem to be common?.
YES. The stock plug is almost always the issue. Get a Genuine NGK CM6. Make sure it actually says "NGK" on the insulator and gap it to 0.020" - the thickness of a #11 Exacto Hobby blade. If your local auto parts stores or Saw shops don't have any CM6's in stock, The Honda "CM6's" available from many places are in fact an NGK in a Honda Box.

I have seen it so many times at fields where people follow the "local guru" and all end up with the same bad running engines. Just because a persons owns a Gasser and can fly well, doesn't mean he can tune an engine. (how do you know he flies well - does he get those deadsticks to land perfectly every time? - if that is the case - don't take his engine advice).

Once the plug is changed to a decent one, also make sure you are using a fresh and fully charged ignition pack - then tune the needles right (there are no factory settings). Set the high to max RPM, set the low to good transition, recheck the high and go fly. NEVER run it overly rich.
Old 06-21-2011, 04:13 PM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

Odd that out of the three of you not one knew that the stock plug is junk.
Even more odd is the fact the DLE continuously improves their engines but they still sell their engine with a plug that they know and pretty much everyone else knows is a bad out of the box every time.
Old 06-21-2011, 04:19 PM
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iwannaknow
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

I'm fly with Gerry and had my brand new dle30 out today. Yes the plug was changed to a genuine CM6 as soon as i received it. I tuned the engine at home as soon as i started it and again after running two tanks of gas through it. At the field this morning is started perfectly and ran great for 3 flights. I let the engine cool for about 30 minutes between flights. About 3 minutes into the forth flight, i had throttled down for a low fly-by and when i throttled back up the engine started to die. By backing off the throttle the engine stayed running. I landed immediately thinking its a new engine and may need to be re-tuned. Gerry came over and watched as well as commented as i tuned the engine. As it seemed to run well on the bench, i fuelled it up and took off. Within 20 seconds the engine just quit. This engine is not cowled yet as i like to make sure everything is right before enclosing the engine. The gas is brand new (full tank of it in my car from a reputable company) and i'm using HP ultra at 40:1 which ran in a ZDZ40 and a JC28 the day before yesterday.
I have 4 other gassers from 28cc to 58cc and none of them quit mid air. they were all brand new when i bought them.
I'm not saying that i'm not doing anything wrong, but what i am doing seems to work well in the other engines.
Old 06-21-2011, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

I have the 20, 2 30's, and a DL 50 and all mine run GREAT!! All have the NGK plug.
PS I must say the 20 and one of the 30's ran horrible on the stock plug. The other to ran but improved with the NGK.
Old 06-21-2011, 09:04 PM
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John Raymond
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky


ORIGINAL: aussiesteve


ORIGINAL: GeraldRosebery

What I wanted to ask is - Is the plug almost always the culprit to weird behavior or are there other issues people know about are seem to be common?.
YES. The stock plug is almost always the issue. Get a Genuine NGK CM6. Make sure it actually says ''NGK'' on the insulator and gap it to 0.020'' - the thickness of a #11 Exacto Hobby blade. If your local auto parts stores or Saw shops don't have any CM6's in stock, The Honda ''CM6's'' available from many places are in fact an NGK in a Honda Box.

I have seen it so many times at fields where people follow the ''local guru'' and all end up with the same bad running engines. Just because a persons owns a Gasser and can fly well, doesn't mean he can tune an engine. (how do you know he flies well - does he get those deadsticks to land perfectly every time? - if that is the case - don't take his engine advice).

Once the plug is changed to a decent one, also make sure you are using a fresh and fully charged ignition pack - then tune the needles right (there are no factory settings). Set the high to max RPM, set the low to good transition, recheck the high and go fly. NEVER run it overly rich.
AUSSIESTEVE is right on, per JediJody, rich = deadstick or poor performance in air

I have two 30's one converted from side carb and both start and run fine, I run 32-1 Pennzoil but once again rich=problems in air
Old 06-21-2011, 09:11 PM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

There are five DLE30's at my field and most all ran real crappy before the stock plug was changed and since then all except one is running fine. The troublesome one would run great one minute and not the next. It starts easily and has a great idle and mid range but sputters badly on occassion and will die if WOT is attempted. After several carb teardowns and thorough cleanings it is running as it should so hopefully the problem has been solved.

Karol
Old 06-21-2011, 10:39 PM
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Tired Old Man
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

ORIGINAL: iwannaknow

I'm fly with Gerry and had my brand new dle30 out today. Yes the plug was changed to a genuine CM6 as soon as i received it. I tuned the engine at home as soon as i started it and again after running two tanks of gas through it. At the field this morning is started perfectly and ran great for 3 flights. I let the engine cool for about 30 minutes between flights. About 3 minutes into the forth flight, i had throttled down for a low fly-by and when i throttled back up the engine started to die.

By backing off the throttle the engine stayed running.

I landed immediately thinking its a new engine and may need to be re-tuned. Gerry came over and watched as well as commented as i tuned the engine. As it seemed to run well on the bench, i fuelled it up and took off. Within 20 seconds the engine just quit. This engine is not cowled yet as i like to make sure everything is right before enclosing the engine. The gas is brand new (full tank of it in my car from a reputable company) and i'm using HP ultra at 40:1 which ran in a ZDZ40 and a JC28 the day before yesterday.
I have 4 other gassers from 28cc to 58cc and none of them quit mid air. they were all brand new when i bought them.
I'm not saying that i'm not doing anything wrong, but what i am doing seems to work well in the other engines.
A new engine breaks in as it is run. As it breaks in the state of tune changes over time and requires a little touch up. Your engine told you what was wrong when it would continue to run by backing off the throttle. The top end is set too lean and the engine got hot. Backing off richened the mixture. The engine is clearly new yet being run at 40-1 instead of the suggested 30 to 32-1. That runs hotter with a new engine. I'll almost bet this engine was involved in some balls to the wall flying about the time all this happened, in complete disregard of everything every gas engine expert tells people. Don't run them hot in the beginning. Fly casual aerobatics for a gallon or so.

Although the group at this field was previously described as gas experienced I'm reading about basic newbie mistakes. Good to see you've come to a place where you can gain some practical experience.
Old 06-22-2011, 03:40 AM
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iwannaknow
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

the engine is in a rearwin speedster (high wing taylorcraft like) and i never had it WOT except to tune it. Absolutely NO aerobatics, as i said, i throttled down for a low fly-by and when i powered back up the engine started to misbehave. On the ground i actually had to lean it to get max rpm out of it, both the low and high needles, then of course i backed them out about 1/8 turn each. Transition was great.

It quit as i was turning downwind after a take-off. I realize that the engine is still very new and this could just be part of the break-in that i'm experiencing. Having said that, i expect the engine to run until 'I' decide to shut it off, otherwise i'm gonna need alot of new airplanes to break this motor in.
Old 06-22-2011, 05:10 AM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

You need to run a felt or stone filter clunk in your tank to prevent the carb from sucking a bubble. Get them at the chainsaw store.
Old 06-22-2011, 05:12 AM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

Ok, so the engine ran ok while running through the low speed circuit but was falling off when transitioning to the high. The low needle most certainly impacts what happens with the high needle, which is often over looked. So re-tuning both needles leaner is something that could have been appropriate if the low side was rich to begin with.

How the engine acted when transitioning to the high side of carb operation provides a lot of information about how the needles are set up. Did the engine stutter and cough when starting to die or did it fail to respond to throttle up by steadily losing power? From what I've read so far it appears to be a tuning issue. Now that you have changed to a functional plug the ability to correctly tune the engine has increased about 1,000%.
Old 06-22-2011, 05:30 AM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

Which Rearwin is it in, Is it the Kangke one?

If so - T.O.M's advice is absolutley valid . The cooling flow through those isn't that great and the 30 would be close to the minimum for that plane. I fly one regularly with a 56cc in it - it easily handles all of the Advanced IMAC routine maneuvers (ok -it might not win a championship doing them as it is VERY slow to snap roll - or any other roll for that matter).

Plug, fuel, tuning.
Old 06-22-2011, 05:45 AM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky


ORIGINAL: iwannaknow

the engine is in a rearwin speedster (high wing taylorcraft like) and i never had it WOT except to tune it. Absolutely NO aerobatics, as i said, i throttled down for a low fly-by and when i powered back up the engine started to misbehave. On the ground i actually had to lean it to get max rpm out of it, both the low and high needles, then of course i backed them out about 1/8 turn each. Transition was great.

It quit as i was turning downwind after a take-off. I realize that the engine is still very new and this could just be part of the break-in that i'm experiencing. Having said that, i expect the engine to run until 'I' decide to shut it off, otherwise i'm gonna need alot of new airplanes to break this motor in.
The break-in time will be a lot less if you install a Frank Bowman customPiston ring. It will have better compression and hand start easy right away. But ...if your engine hand starts easy now...it is more of a sprakplug or tuning issue. Capt,n
Old 06-22-2011, 05:58 AM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

I should have mentioned that the troublesome DLE 30 engine would always run a bit better if the high needle was opened up 2 plus turns when it started running badly. This clue led us to believe that the carb had some sort of blockage and after each cleaning exercise it would run a bit better, as now it seems to have cleared up completely.

We also fitted one of Frank's rings after a few runs on the stock ring and what a difference it has made.

Karol
Old 06-22-2011, 06:31 AM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

wye: i run a felt walboro clunk in the tank as well as one in my 1 gallon gas jug. I use a 3 line fuel system.
TOM: it was running fine (three 10 minute flights) and then out of the blue started acting up so i landed and re-tuned.
Take-off at about half throttle, turned crosswind, ok , turned downwind and started losing power, tried throttle down but within 2 seconds it quit. I had changed the plug before the engine even saw gas.
aussiesteve: it is the Kangke, but i've been flying without the cowl (ps 1/5 scale, more than enough engine).

this is a decent engine, starts easily and i'm almost sure this will go away once it gets broken in, i just don't like engines quitting.
Although i don't post on here, i do read ALOT. I believe i've tuned this engine properly and will continue on hoping it gets better. I'll do 30-40 second runs on the ground at about half throttle. If it shows no signs of quitting i'll fly again.

[8D]
Old 06-22-2011, 07:15 AM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

It's possible there is somethng in one of the carb circuits. Lest we forget, carbs are assembled by people with very low skill sets and even lower pay, yet we expect to be provided the best possible end products.

Truthfully, less than half of the new carbs I see are done right. The rest contain either some parts defect or an assembly error. I can't speak for the used ones because Lord knows what the user did to one.
Old 06-22-2011, 09:07 AM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky


ORIGINAL: apalsson


ORIGINAL: GeraldRosebery

Regarding the DLE being a sweetheart. That is why we all bought one and I (and they) are very surprised by our problems. I am unaware of a DLE 30 in the club that runs well. (Not true for the DLE 55's which cause little or no problems that I have heard about.)
Are they all tuned by the same person?

No, they are not. We all work our own engines. One of us has about 20 years with gas engines and I have about 10.
Old 06-22-2011, 09:20 AM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

Cranky DLE30...yup mine got that way today. I changed props and whent to start it per the easy quickflick....good thing I used a paint roller insert....the dang thing wants to kick back every time now. Tell you what...I am going to kick this engines *****. I will find out what gives ...and report back. Caot,n
Old 06-22-2011, 09:39 AM
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Default RE: 3 x DLE 30's - cranky

Remember our models and engines are all females, so maybe you did not rub her in all the right places or talk lovingly enough before you attempted to crank her up

Karol

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