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DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

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DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

Old 08-01-2011, 07:17 AM
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WarbirdPilots
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Default DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

Does anyone have real world numbers for these two engines? They are priced about the same, so I am looking to see how these engines compare.

Thank you in advance.
Old 08-01-2011, 08:06 AM
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Tired Old Man
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

If it was my decision I would be looking harder at a third alternative. If limiting to only the two mentioned your decision will be based primarily on who you think will take better care of you.
Old 08-01-2011, 08:52 AM
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pe reivers
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

MVVS80: <col width="94" style="width: 70pt;" /> <col width="64" span="2" style="width: 48pt;" /> <col width="94" style="width: 70pt;" /> <col width="83" style="width: 62pt;" /> <col width="64" style="width: 48pt;" /> <col width="366" style="width: 274pt;" /> <td width="94" bordercolor="#c0c0c
Old 08-01-2011, 09:47 AM
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Tired Old Man
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

Might want to clean up the data presentation a little Pe. It's a little confusing as it stands, but far more comprehensive that what can be found with any other engine. The MVVS was one of two alternatives I had in mind.
Old 08-01-2011, 02:32 PM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>


ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

The MVVS was one of two alternatives I had in mind.
Was the MT / DJ80the other one ?
Old 08-01-2011, 03:26 PM
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Tired Old Man
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

Not a chance. Try 3w. I believe in only purchasing an engine once, and having it function correctly the first time.
Old 08-01-2011, 03:31 PM
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pe reivers
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

Easier said than done.
Copy/paste for your own use. Data are sorted by prop size.
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

Might want to clean up the data presentation a little Pe. It's a little confusing as it stands, but far more comprehensive that what can be found with any other engine. The MVVS was one of two alternatives I had in mind.
Old 08-01-2011, 03:42 PM
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Tired Old Man
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

I undertand. Excel spreadsheets can be pertty finicky to reproduce.
Old 08-01-2011, 03:46 PM
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pe reivers
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

I replaced it with Excel. The previous format was MSaccess, which I liked much better. I cannot edit the codes. The wysiwyg editor sucks.
Old 08-01-2011, 03:59 PM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

Excellent information Pe.

Have you found much difference between the Single and the twinspark versions? I have both engines in airframes here and seem to have quite an improvement in power on the twinspark over the single (IRS version). Both are running the 3211i mufflers and both have 26/10 props (One Mej, one Xoar). The single spark (with the Mej) is similar power to your chart, the TS (with the Xoar - it will eventually have a 3 blade on it) has about 300 rpm more on the top end. Both are GREAT engines.
Old 08-01-2011, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

Steve,

Your experience with a twin spark system is consistent with experiences in other engines using T.S.
Old 08-01-2011, 06:34 PM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

My MVVS 80 is a single spark and has a Xoar 26x10x3. I don't have a muffler on it, just an open flex header
With that prop, I get around 6300 but the main attraction to me is the smooth running of the engine
Old 08-01-2011, 07:16 PM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

Yes, they are VERY nice running engines.
T.O.M, - one of mine (haven't decided which one yet) is heading into a scaled up version of Wrongway RC's "50cc Profiles" when I finally finish building it - before you say it - the airframe is being scaled up by 10% above the 50cc sizes. That ought to bring out the "schoolboy giggles" in me. It is likely to weigh over 7kg so will need to have a "heavy model inspection" here - can't wait to see the inspectors face when he tries to work that one out.
Old 08-02-2011, 02:32 AM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

I haven't seen any user reports on the ZDZ 90 to date, I was hoping someone would have something to say here. There is one performance report on the ZDZ 180 on the giants site, nothing about the 90 however. I think once you hit the 80 cc mark, you are better off buying a 100 cc twin, singles vibrate too much for my liking.
Let see, now your choices are;
DA 85 - Good customer service, my experince is broad power range
ZDZ 90 - Unknown, my 80's (three)have top end power equal to DA85 however lack in mid range.
3W 80 - TOM's favorite, German design so it must be good, never seen in action but I would buy one
MVVS - Again never seen in action, no comment.
Old 08-02-2011, 02:10 PM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

Here are my test data of the single spark engine.
"the gardener" has posted his experience with the engine on the other forum.


Old 08-02-2011, 02:30 PM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

Nice plots!!
Old 08-02-2011, 03:15 PM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

I would buy a 100cc-120cc twin engine instead. Vibrations from the singles could cause a lot of problems down the road.
Old 08-02-2011, 03:21 PM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>


ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

Nice plots!!
I bet you say that to all the girls
Old 08-02-2011, 03:44 PM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>


ORIGINAL: nonstoprc

I would buy a 100cc-120cc twin engine instead. Vibrations from the singles could cause a lot of problems down the road.
You would be amazed at how smooth this engine really is. In comparison to my current 111cc, it is just as smooth
Old 08-03-2011, 01:41 AM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

What engine?
Old 08-03-2011, 05:14 AM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

I suspect he is referring to the ZDZ. My Super 80 was extremely smooth for such a large single.

Little off topic...but Steve as to the 3W's I am looking at placing an order for a 170 CS this morning. Just making the final decision now over a coffee. When you are awake half the night from dreaming about it, it is time. Either that or time to stay off the net.
Old 08-03-2011, 06:59 AM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

I have a 3w 80cc in a Ziroli P40. Very smooth running with little vibration at idle. I'm swinging a Mej 24x12 3bl prop on this 36lbs beast and it flies it with authority and low noise to boost. I'll verify but remember getting about 6800 rpm on that prop.
The DA 85 with "update" to new piston with lower compression does not vibrate anymore than 100cc twins that I can notice. But it's hard to tell when you have different engines in different airframes (firewall rigidity does matter). It really boils down to where you're strapping the motor to make it fit well when it's 85 vs 100.
Regarding the original post, I have not seen anyone in our club run the new ZDZ 90. I've seen the ZDZ 80 super run smooth with very little vibration in couple warbirds. But the difference in service support may help you decide.
Old 08-03-2011, 08:30 AM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

You hit the nail on the head, your 28 LB airframe will absorb the vibration, put that 80 into a 14 lb airframe and then tell me how smooth it is. My last ZDZ80 shook so bad it replaced it with a D&B 5.1 twin.
Old 08-03-2011, 09:56 AM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>

Personally I wouldn't put a 80cc on a little 14lb airframe. A 50~55 at most, and even that would have an excess of power. I am not sure if you meant you have done it or if just using it for an example.
Old 08-03-2011, 01:32 PM
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Default RE: DA-85 VS. the new ZDZ90, need info>>>



ZDZ 80 5 1/2 pound with ignition, add muffler, battery, prop, spinner plus the 14 airframe and you''re looking at 22 lb aircraft. The war bird weighted 36 pounds, I took off 8 for the engine resulting in 28 pound, twice the weight of a typical aerobatic airframe.
For 50 cc class, Aeroworks lists their Edge at 17 to 18 pounds while the 75cc Extra is listed at 20 to 21 pounds. I'm sure the confusion here is the weight I quoted was less engine. At any rate the warbird has about twice the mass to adsorb the vibration pulses which in turn results in lower overall vibration. Most 80's would seem smooth on a 28 pound airframe.


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24x10 xoar 7250 9.67 int80 pe-test out of box (after 300cc quiet running high idle)
24x10x3 mej 7100 11 RE3 engine A Bolle. slowly rising rpm (MVVS clains 12hp @8000)
24x10x3 mej 6420 7.8 TD75 engine A Bolle
24x10x3 mej 6450 8.47 TD110 engine A Bolle
24x10x3 mej 6350 8.23 3204 engine A Bolle
24x10x3 mej 6460 8.47 TD75K engine A Bolle
24x10x3 mej 6390 8.4 TD75KK engine A Bolle, shortened K muffler Nu naar Erik
24x10x3 mej 6600 8.8 int80 janch
24x10x3 mej 6680 10.26 int80 pe-test out of box (after 300cc quiet running high idle)
25x10 metts 7200 0 ks1090 jager
25x12 Xoar 6600 10.19 int80 pe-test out of box (after 300cc quiet running high idle)
25x12 Xoar 6750 11.6 RE3/250 250mm header length
26x10 fiala 6800 0 BMB-TP Teremel (101" Yak 54 quiqui)
26x10 mej 7050 10.4 01:40 int80 prot MVVS prototype muffler (Mvvs claimed 12HP at 8000)
26x10N mej 6300 7.15 hp 3211i Pitts MVVS inverted pitts muffler
26x12 mej 6000 7.56 MVVS pitts Andris sebins (stock pitts)
26x12 Metts-lam 6610 0 KS1090 TP 78cm to reflector, Michel Jager
26x9 JAS 6900 9.9 int 80 prot janch real life data
27x10 JAS 6340 0 int 80 prot janch real life data
27x10TH mej 5800 7.5 3211i Pitts MVVS inverted pitts muffler
27x10TH mej 6000 7.56 MVVS pitts Andris sebins (stock pitts)
27x10TH mej 6750 11.5 RE3 / 355 Andris sebins
27x10TH mej 5800 7.5 3211S MVVS side muffler, insert removed
27x10TH mej 6200 9.2 int 58 MVVS, first tests
27x10TH mej 6520 10.72 BMP-TP teremel with MBP tuned pipe
27x10TH mej 6210 9.26 int 80 prot janch real life data
27x10TH mej 5400 6.1 3211S MVVS side muffler, insert in place
27x12TH mej 5800 9.1 TD115K pe-test
27x12TH mej 6090 9.78 int80 pe-test out of box (after 300cc quiet running high idle)
27x12TH mej 6800 0 KS1090 TP Michel Jager (prop noisy)
28x10 mej 6600 11.59 RE3 / 355 Andris
28x10 Xoar 5650 8.4 int80 pe-test out of box (after 300cc quiet running high idle)
28x12 Xoar 5000 6.8 int80 pe-test out of box (after 300cc quiet running high idle)
DA85:
25x12x3 elster 6250 0 griffon. less pull than 28x10, same noise level
25x12x3 mej 5990 9.16 KS1090 Very quiet
25x12x3 mej 5540 7.25 Jtec 96dB
25x12x3 mej 6300 10.66 KS1090
26A 6750 7 Jtec KrayzyRC
26B 6400 7.27 Jtec KrayzyRC
26x10 6780 0 Jtec KrayzyRC prop data?
26x10 mej 6350 7.61 Amsoil 100:1 Jtec PITTS Max RPM: 6,423, cold, 7400 in flight
26x10 mej 6900 9.76 RE3 javierkc
26x10 menz 5950 6.94 lawnboy 1:32 pitts
26x10 menz 6100 7.48
26x10 NX 6800 0 RE3
26x10 PT 6670 0 slimline PITTS not yet run in
26x10 xoar 6780 10.97 KS1090 trev, extreme prop ripping
26x10 xoar 6000 7.61 redline 40:1 Jtec super08
26x12 6170 0 Jtec KrayzyRC
26x12 mej 6250 8.55 KS can klaus spindler
26x12 mej 6150 8.14 Jtec outstanding pull very good IMAC
27A 5750 5.07 Jtec KrayzyRC
27x10 mej 5910 7.16 Jtec 96dB
27x10 mej 6610 10 KS1090 Not ripping
27x10 mej 6300 8.68 KS95 excellent performance sukhoy 35% 26lbs
27x10 mej 6450 9.31 RE3 javierkc
27x10 menz 5950 8.1 Jtec 94dB
27x10 menz 6580 10.96